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Lets talk Axles,spools and gears

4K views 57 replies 8 participants last post by  201250 
#1 ·
To begin with all of my past race cars (and some street cars) have always had strange spools and axles, mainly they were the only ones and you could count on never having any breakage as well as contingency money. Now that I'm building the 8.8 there are options:

Strange and Moser both make spools and alloy axles 31,33,35 and 40 spline. I haven't heard anything bad about Moser and talking to them when I purchased the housing ends they seemed to know there stuff. So any experiences or other manufatures I should be looking at?

I have also decided to run 3.90 gears and thought Motive gear performance was the only ones making them, until I looked in the Jegs catalog tonight and see the 3.90 gears under their name. Now we all know Jegs doesn't own a gear company so my question is since Motive Gear is the only ones making them are they just reboxed Motive Gears? Again THANKS for all the help you guys are giving me. I appreciate it.
 
#2 ·
I only have direct experience with Strange and Mark Williams, so I'm no help.

But I would like the part numbers for the Moser 9" housing ends and the brake caliper brackets for the OEM brakes.
 
#3 · (Edited)
#4 ·
No, Circle-D got the converter on Monday, so hopefully it should be going out to me this Monday or Tuesday.

It's the 5E (4500ish-rpm), the 5C is a 4000-4200. The 5E has (let's see if I remember what Chris told me) the pump from the 5C, but the stator is different, hence the "E".

Or--- that's backwards, swap pump and stator... ;)

It's the highest stall speed he can do in the 245mm case. Any more, you have to go to a 230mm converter. There is a 5000ish, 230mm converter being built for someone...
 
#8 ·
To begin with all of my past race cars (and some street cars) have always had strange spools and axles, mainly they were the only ones and you could count on never having any breakage as well as contingency money. Now that I'm building the 8.8 there are options:

Strange and Moser both make spools and alloy axles 31,33,35 and 40 spline. I haven't heard anything bad about Moser and talking to them when I purchased the housing ends they seemed to know there stuff. So any experiences or other manufatures I should be looking at?

I have also decided to run 3.90 gears and thought Motive gear performance was the only ones making them, until I looked in the Jegs catalog tonight and see the 3.90 gears under their name. Now we all know Jegs doesn't own a gear company so my question is since Motive Gear is the only ones making them are they just reboxed Motive Gears? Again THANKS for all the help you guys are giving me. I appreciate it.
You are doing it right man. That is refreshing to see. :)

I am looking at axles atm. Undecided on the diff. I think I will squeeze as much as I can out of the stocker and decide between now and then.

On the gears, I would go with Motive vs. Jegs. I am not sure the Jegs gears are hardened but could be completely wrong.

Here is what I have been looking at so far:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ALY-12187/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-700129/
http://store.jpcracing.com/Mustang-GTGT500-C-Clip-Eliminator-Kit-for-ABS_p_1384.html
http://store.jpcracing.com/Strange-Engineering-AxleSpool-C-Clip-Eliminator-Package-_p_1552.html
 
#9 ·
I'm starting to get funky things going on with the OEM LSD.

The drivers side drag radial has more wear then the passenger side drag radial.
 
#14 ·
I like the last the best. I thought about the same thing except the c-clip eliminators require machining the backing plates for them to fit flat. At least the ones I looked at did. Again it is all personnel preferrence. Like I said before "I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it". I guess it's my age, but people tend to get impatient and end up spending more in the end than if they did it right to begin with. If you find a rear end housing out of a 2005-2012 mustang with main caps and backing plates you've got a starting point. Then as time and money allow,purchase the spool axles,gears,brace,9"ends and do as you can. In the mean time you still have your car to drive,race whatever,but are building for the future.
I always worked reverse of all my other race buddies. I built the car to handle more power first and then got the big motors. While they were always breaking parts I was setting records and winning races. Sorry for the long response, but kids (yes I can call you all kids cause I'm 63) today want everything NOW. I see it everyday in my kids and grandkids Flame me if you want but it's true. Sometimes we older guys do know what we are doing. And as far as driving a car with a spool on the street, I drove this thing for 2 years with 22" tires and never had a problem. WHY cause you need to use common sense and know the limits of the Spool. End of story.
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#15 ·
Another couple of issues I've been thinking about. ABS and traction control. What (contols) traction control? ECU and if so how or is it done with sensors at the wheels. It also appears as tho the stock axles have a ring with grooves in it on the axle for the ABS sensors. Does anyone know if you can have those rings put on aftermarket non c-clip axles or is it something to not worry about. Again THANKS.
 
#18 ·
Just a quick update. After talking to both Strange and Moser at length, I decided to go with Moser 35 Spline Spool,axles and Housing ends/retainers. Motive Gears. I'm prepping the housing for welding and cutting the old ends off. The problem is the shock brackets are so close to the end you can only shorten the housing 1"-3/4" at the most wihout relocating the bracket which I decided isn't worth it since I'm not planning on setting and ET or Speed records. Just want to compete successfully in NHRA stock class if NHRA ever gets the 5.0 classified. Looks like B/SA I think the index is 11.12 or something. I think Dkanner got to within .50 of that,but not sure what to configuration of the car was.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Just a quick update. After talking to both Strange and Moser at length, I decided to go with Moser 35 Spline Spool,axles and Housing ends/retainers. Motive Gears. I'm prepping the housing for welding and cutting the old ends off. The problem is the shock brackets are so close to the end you can only shorten the housing 1"-3/4" at the most wihout relocating the bracket which I decided isn't worth it since I'm not planning on setting and ET or Speed records. Just want to compete successfully in NHRA stock class if NHRA ever gets the 5.0 classified. Looks like B/SA I think the index is 11.12 or something. I think Dkanner got to within .50 of that,but not sure what to configuration of the car was.
Ok maybe you can school me some. but welding and cutting ends off ? Is this for the new housing SO tubes still work?

Cant you not just get spool and axle for the current housing and tubes?

I have never did a rear to t his extreme but i know i will sooner or later.
 
#21 ·
The 35 spline axles are great but a spool for anything other than a 100% drag car is crazy. If you plan on any street driving get a locker, putting up with some clicking is better than scrubbing the tires off every time you turn right or left. Nothing hooks like a spool at the track!
 
#23 ·
Just to get everyone on the same page. This rear end is a race only piece. That way I can change out my original rearend the weekend of the race.( 1 hour MAX) Sunday night change it back and drive it to work. Once I retire (3 years) so will the car retire and become an offical NHRA stock eliminator car. It will take about 3 years for NHRA,engine builders,Tranny bulders,converter builders to figure out what works and doesn't as far as the strict rules go. I believe the reason the BOSS intake was released so soon was so Ford can get it classified as a OEM replacement(just MO) In the mean time I will drive,have fun,race and test things I think will be legal for Stock Eliminator. I really believe this car will be a terror in B/SA if that's where it ends up.
 
#29 ·
The only way you will be able to run that intake is if the Boss is classified. If it is, you won't be able to run B/SA, it would be a B/S car. The 444hp car is a stick car, not an automatic. Unless they start building auto Bosses...

To be competitive in B, the car will need to run mid 10s. To be a killer, it's going to need to run low 10s.
 
#27 ·
I happened to talk to Moser today also. They told me if I send them a housing, to put on the 9" ends and supply axles with bearings, retainers, studs, and ABS tone rings would run $835. Looks like a new housing from a decent Ford dealer should run about $300, and I will probably go that route, I don't think I can buy an 05-up rear out of any salvage yard for anywhere near that price.
That is correct. I have been trying to find a housing for my friend at work who also has a 2011 and wants to do the same thing. I have looked all over the country for a 2005-2011 housing only and nothing. They want to sell you a whole rear end for $1200 shipped. Kdanner you have a PM.
 
#32 ·
The only way you will be able to run that intake is if the Boss is classified. If it is, you won't be able to run B/SA, it would be a B/S car. The 444hp car is a stick car, not an automatic. Unless they start building auto Bosses...

To be competitive in B, the car will need to run mid 10s. To be a killer, it's going to need to run low 10s.
George/Kdanner:thanks: you are a right. There never will be a B/SA car, forgot about that.I guess I'll continue anyway as though there were. I believe there are so many doors yet to opened with this 5.0. This is still only the first year and the tuners are still learning. I'm having fun anyway and that's what this is all about
 
#33 ·
Important part is you are doing it right. :D
 
#34 ·
Don't know if I should start a new thread on this or not but, lets talk about installing gears. In all my years of racing I have always had someone else do the gear installs. Well this time I have decided to do it myself. I've done alot of research on it, but have some questions. When you install the pinion bearing what is a good starting point for shim thickness? When first installed do you need to torque it to like 140ftlbs in order to set the crush sleeve then back it out to 26 inch lbs and check the pattern? So everytime you check the pattern and it isn't right you need to remove the bearing and either add or take out shims. I guess you need a bearing puller and press at the place of install.

I'm also unclear about ring gear runout dial indicator/mag base. .012 is the best? Do these shims go behind the main caps to shift one sid3e either in or out? I assume you check runout first then pattern. If this has been covered somewhere else here I'm sorry to was every's time so just point me in the right direction and I'll figure it out. THANKS AGAIN. The help has been a learning experience.
 
#36 ·
#37 ·
Well I've decided to go with the Sacrifical bearing plan. I stooped and picked up a new pinion bearing and honed the inside out so it slides onto the Motive Gear pinion. That way I can get the shims right before actually pressing the bearing on. Has anyone used the crush sleve eliminator? sounds like it is a hard spacer.
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#40 ·
Well I've decided to go with the Sacrifical bearing plan. I stooped and picked up a new pinion bearing and honed the inside out so it slides onto the Motive Gear pinion. That way I can get the shims right before actually pressing the bearing on. Has anyone used the crush sleve eliminator? sounds like it is a hard spacer.
I use a setup bearing like that. I also use the solid spacer, it just makes things simpler.
 
#38 ·
Crush sleeve eliminator is just a solid spacer and some shims to set the preload. Sometimes I use them sometimes I dont, supposedly stronger w/o the crush sleeve, I use them when I know I'm going to try a couple different ratios.
 
#41 ·
201250, you know that the 2011+ GTs take the same bearing as the GT500s, not the standard 8.8 pinion bearing.
 
#44 ·
201250, you know that the 2011+ GTs take the same bearing as the GT500s, not the standard 8.8 pinion bearing
First off guys my name is Terry and feel free to use it. George I can't tell you what a run around I went through with this pinion bearing deal. One place said the 2010-2012 bearing is different than previous years. Then you look at the kits and they say 89-11. I looked at Ford parts numbers,deminsions etc. I stopped at Auto Zone on the way home tonight asked for a pinion bearing and sleeve for a 2010 Mustang and I got a National bearing number M-88048 and sleeve M88010. Looks like a very good bearing and the sleeve fit the housing and the bearing fit my Motive Gear Pinion. Got both for $15.00 so I was OK honing it out.

FIY for anyone interested. The friend of mine who is also doing a rearend ordered a set of 3.90 gears from Jegs. GUESS what. It has the exact same part number as mine on the ring gear and he only paid $150 vs my $239. Go figure.
 
#46 ·
That link tells part of the story. The OEM race does not use a spacer, just like the older style doesn't. It's been my experience that the pinion depth stays correct when switching back and forth between the 2 OEM style options. However, when using what comes in the Ford racing kit with the spacer for the race, it threw the pinion depth off, requiring a different pinion shim.
 
#47 ·
Ok I think I have everything figured out except using the crush sleeve eliminator/spacer. I'm thinking you tighten the pinion nut just enough to achieve the constant 26 inch lbs needed to turn the pinion/ring gear?
 
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