You may change your opinion of Livernois

[DirtyDogOfTheDesert]

Mark you need to just quit already, and let this die.

Move on.

[modaddict]

Originally Posted by DirtyDogOfTheDesert

Mark you need to just quit already, and let this die.

Move on.

I know you are right. It is just that it is so damn frustrating to spend god awful amounts of money on a 30K car and for it to encounter engine after engine letting go with nothing but finger pointing coming out of it. It's sickening, if I'm honest.

I probably have more financial means than most and it is killing me - I could only imagine the frustration it must create for someone who's hard earned money is not as replaceable.

[Eric Brooks]

Originally Posted by modaddict

I know you are right. It is just that it is so damn frustrating to spend god awful amounts of money on a 30K car and for it to encounter engine after engine letting go with nothing but finger pointing coming out of it. It's sickening, if I'm honest.

I probably have more financial means than most and it is killing me - I could only imagine the frustration it must create for someone who's hard earned money is not as replaceable.

Mark, I tune alot of cars for people that probably could not afford an engine failure if it were to happen. It is stressful for sure.

You have changed your combo several times. IMHO, if you had a clear direction of what you wanted to start with, you would have spent much less, and had less issues. When you change stuff, switch shops, etc.... things can become a mess.

The majority of work I perform on cars is going behind other shops, and it is a ROYAL pain in the ass sometimes. I'd much rather a customer come to me first instead of going to another shop. When a car comes in like that, I have no idea how the quality of work is, and when you run into issues, it makes things very difficult to pinpoint the problems.

I recently had a car that came in for just a tune. The car had an issue. After several hours into fixing the issue, I find another issue. Just got that one fixed, and guess what.... more problems.

[Anthony05GT]

Jeeeez! This thread really went for a ride. Damn!

[myystanng]

Originally Posted by modaddict

I It's sickening, if I'm honest.

I probably have more financial means than most and it is killing me - I could only imagine the frustration it must create for someone who's hard earned money is not as replaceable.

Mike Johnson of no limit race cars stole 20K from me in addition to stripping my car of the motor,TKO and procharger I had. My family sacrifacid and saved every spare dollar we had for the build for 3 years and took a 5K loan to finish the build. I was able to sell the shell for 1500. It took 7 years to get another stang.I understand it hurts to loose so much.In the end I let it go. I did not have the desire or money to sue as it I could not harbor the anger in my heart. For me it was more destructive than loosing money.At least I walked away with my integrity . Now I work with a shop I trust. That is my biggest factor.I hope this helps you ck...

One day I will find his new shop and at least force him to look me in the eyes.

[Mike@Livernois]

Well this thread has definitely gone up and down and all over the place. As you guys know by now I'm kind of long winded at best. Sorry. lol

After getting to see the pictures of the pistons that were posted on the other forum and the ring at the edge of the piston from the gasket it at least confirmed the information I had received from a very reliable source (Adam@ST) that the wrong head gasket had been used.

From a technical standpoint since the question was asked, normally in an engine the spec used for most high performance engines when it comes to piston to head clearance is going to be around .040. Now you can go a little tighter than that and get down close to .030 and the piston might just start to touch the head. But there are a lot of factors here that make up what you can get away with. Rod type, rod material, RPM range, piston weight, piston to wall clearance, etc. etc. etc.

If though the gasket hangs into the path of the piston then you have just most likely created .000 clearance for piston to head and that just will not work. The gasket will get hit by the piston and destruction will ensue. Again there are variables such as piston to deck clearance here as well. Bottom line is the gasket cannot be in the bore as it will cause damage.

In talking to Comp on the camshafts their warranty information relates to a machining issue in regards to finish and machining issues. But the camshafts measured very low in total runout or the cam being bent. This is what there inspection found. They did not find the cams were bent but had issued warranty because of the machining issue.

I have received further information from another member on this board that there was dialogue that took place between Mark and this other member that relates specifically to his oil pump failure and lack of oil pressure that caused the oil pressure to drop and the heads to get eaten up. This was in the form of a PM. This member kindly messaged me to let me know this had happened as he felt there was more information that was not on the table that he felt like should be out there. He told me he would send me that PM if I would like. I greatly appreciate him coming forward with that info.

In all of this I have come from a point of minimal to limited knowledge on what happened to what I feel is having a decent amount of information as it pertains to this enough to form an opinion and enough to know that Livernois was not at fault in any way. This was my goal from the beginning, to assess what information I could find and determine if indeed we had made some mistake and if we did to handle it. It took a while to gather enough information to get things straightened out but in the end I feel confident in what we have here.

The combination of having multiple hands work with, disassemble and check the heads and give them the passing grade plus then go to the engine builder who noted nothing wrong with them during his piston to valve checking makes me confident that the heads and cams were in good condition at that point of engine assembly. Getting the information from Comp that the cams were not bent but warrantied for a reason not related to that was another indicator. Finally getting the story on the engine and hearing about the issues with the assembly followed by the broken oil pump and then seeing the pictures of the damaged pistons from the head gasket were good confirmation for me that there were other issues here unrelated to anything Livernois had done.

The problem faced as a vendor in this situation is that this same thread titled "You may change your opinion of Livernois" on no less than 3 message boards creates a situation where regardless of the intent it puts Livernois in a very negative light. Just read the first pages of comments on any of the 3 forums and you can see just that. We have no issue in posting whatever information pertains to any dealings customers have with us. We try to always do a good job and handle everybody professionally. We hope that this reflects positively on us.

In any situation where it relates to warranty Livernois always 100% stands behinds it products if the case is clear cut that Livernois has made mistake. We will always first inspect and gather information before making any snap judgements on anything. We won't claim to be perfect and never will. While we strive to get there we are in fact still human. If we make a mistake we own up to it and handle it. In the event that something happens involving one of our products and we are not at fault we will still do whatever we can to try and help the customer out. I will always do whatever I can in my power to help a customer out because if I was the customer that is all I would ask for.

If anybody has any questions feel free to ask and I will do my best to answer.

Thanks
Mike

[hellionsaleen]

thats all i got to say about all this

[FireFighterHill]

Modaddict, I think your next option is small claims court. Let the judge decide who owes who what.