Mustang and Ford Performance Forums banner

My 2v to 4v swap write-up

140K views 37 replies 13 participants last post by  Ram750 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
This is a little long but I did a lot of research to put this together to help others. If there is anything you think I should add, please PM me first.
2v to 4v Swap

Engine
and Intake Manifold choices
First off, start with your engine choices. Lincoln Mark VIII engines are the cheapest but the intake isn't so great and you'll have to deal with IMRC plates. The IMRC plates create better low-end torque over the newer 4v heads after 1999. I've heard of people using these with a nitrous window switch but that's up to you. I've noticed the prices of 4v engines rising lately. You can probably find a decent Mark VIII motor in any junkyard and snag it for about $700-$1000. They did come with the strongest aluminum blocks made in Teksid, Italy. These blocks go for about $400 alone and are great for any 4.6 build-ups. Don't bother with the Continental 4v blocks because they're front-wheel drive and missing one of the motor mounts, oil filter on the opposite side, etc. Another Lincoln 4v 4.6 worth of swapping in is out of the Lincoln Aviator SUV. Better heads and cams than the older Lincoln 4vs and older Cobras but the intake are taller and I'm not sure if it fits under a stock Mustang hood. The Aviator motor has the same heads and cams as the Mach's, 03/04 Cobra, and Mercury Marauders. However, all the Lincoln motors came with the weaker 6-bolt cast iron cranks. Another thing to take into consideration for the swap is whether or not your car has a 6-bolt flywheel (96-98 and 01-04 GT) or an 8-bolt flywheel (99-2000 GT). The stock GT flywheel will bolt up to the corresponding number of bolt cranks. Aviator motors have been going for around $2700. If you plan on swapping an older Cobra motor into your GT, you might want to take into consideration what type of fuel system you have. If you put an older Cobra motor in a 99-up GT, you'll have to either convert the fuel system to return-style or get return-less fuel rails for the Cobra motor, not to mention changing the ignition to distributor-less or going with coils and spark plug wires. The older Cobra motors are a little cheaper than the 99-up 4v's but it's hard to find one with lower miles. All Cobra motors come with forged 8-bolt cranks and aluminum blocks with the exception of the 03/04 Cobra with iron blocks. In 1999, Ford improved the cylinder head design on the Cobra making more horsepower and torque. The heads are known as tumble ports or "C" heads. Pre 99 4v's came with twin port or "B" heads. If you had a 98- older 4v but wanted the higher hp tumble port heads, you can swap from a Continental 4v after 1999 or any 99-up Cobra/Mach/Marauder/Aviator heads but you'll need a 99-up intake manifold to make it work. I used a 2001 Cobra intake manifold on my Mach long block. It's pretty much the exact same intake minus the shaker system brackets and the snake emblem and the lower is the same. I've seen these intakes go anywhere from $350 to $550 un-ported and $650 or more ported. Look for an intake with all the sensors, fuel rail, injectors, etc. These parts add up, trust me. Your tuner will probably recommend an EGR delete as the kit costs around $20 and looks much cleaner. Ford rated the 99 and 01 Cobras at 320 hp and under-rated the 03/04 Mach 1's at 305 hp. Dyno has proven the Mach's to measure as much as 10 rwhp higher than the 99-01 Cobras. Like I said earlier, all Cobras came with 8-bolt forged cranks. If your Mach motor is out of an automatic transmission car, it has the cast iron 6-bolt crank. Only manual transmission Mach's came with the 8-bolt forged crank. However, all Mach's came with aluminum blocks. There was a website about 2v-4v swaps that claimed Mach 1's to have iron blocks but this was not true. Prices on the 99-01 Cobra and Mach 1 engines are around $3000 to $3500. If you have lots of money to spend and you want a forged short block that's already supercharged then look for 03/04 Cobra engines and you'll spend anywhere from $7000 and up for the motor alone. I've seen a lot selling with a T56 for $10,000 or more. Overall, getting a complete engine is key. The little things can add up quickly and that takes money away from other things you'll need for the swap. Things like gaskets, bolts, sensors, etc. For example, DOHC cam cover bolts from Ford will cost you almost $8 a piece and you need 20! I went to the junkyard and got them for $5 total from a Mark VIII motor. Your oil pressure sensor and coolant sensor will change over as will your power steering pump, and A/C compressor, but I'm not too sure about all the A/C lines because the front covers differ between the years. There was no problem with my 99 GT and 03 Mach engine.

Engine Harness
I'd recommend finding a motor for the same year your car is. For example, I swapped in a 2003 Mach 1 engine into my 99 GT. The shop was unable to use my Mach engine harness because the pin-out did not line up. I'm pretty sure the 2003 GT would have connected right up. The good news is, you can use any 2v engine harness and make it work. However, there is a lot of work involved. First, lay the 2 harnesses out side by side. Cut and splice the coil on plug connectors one at a time. Pay close attention to the polarity of the leads. On mine, you have to swap the polarities of the COP. Most of the wires should be the same color. You'll also have to extend the alternator harness as well as some others but wait until you have the engine in the car and do it then. Ford sells a 4v alternator pigtail and also harness repair kits for about $30. On my motor, there was also a separate harness that goes under the intake manifold and connects the #1 COP and transmission. Don't worry about connecting up the knock sensors if you are using your 2v ECU. All 4v's have knock sensors except the 2003/2004 Cobra motors where apparently ford thought it was safe enough for the motor in the tune. To use the knock sensors, you'll need a 4v ECU. Just more money to spend on something that isn't that great, to begin with. Talk with your tuner and get his recommendation, mine doesn't care for Ford's knock sensors.

Things to consider while the motor is out:
If you're like me and you want to save some money, then think ahead about what you plan on doing next. While the engine is out, I took the chance to swap out my worn motor mounts with some polyurethane pieces. If you don't want the extra vibration, replace them with stock or get some convertible mounts. The convertibles came with slightly stiffer motor mounts than the coupes. I also swapped tubular K-member and Bassani Mid-Length headers. Other things you want to think about, are the flywheel, clutch, head cooling mod, cams and oil pump, etc. Getting these things done now will save lots of money later and it's much easier when the motor is out.

Other swap parts:
Now here's where you want to plan on spending at least $300 for the little stuff. Things you'll need to complete the swap like all the 4v radiator hoses, thermostat housing, and coolant crossover piece. Strongly consider the head cooling mod also. You'll also need the 4v throttle cable and cruise control cables. Don't worry about your fuel lines from the tank to the engine, they'll connect right up. I chose not to go with the factory intake tube and instead got a JLT True Cold air. Since I'm staying naturally aspirated, I have the stock GT mass air meter that my tuner told me will be just fine at my power level. For any more than 350 rwhp I'd recommend getting an SCT 2400 MAF or equivalent. Again, talk to your tuner first. I bought the SCT 2400 and ended up not using it. With the stock 99 MAF, and GT ECU reflashed w/ a custom tune, my car made 328 rwhp and 344 rwtq! The only engine mods I have are the JLT CAI, Bassani Mid-lengths, off-road X pipe, and Magnaflow Catback exhaust. Turn the key and it fires right up and looks like the engine came from the factory! I can't wait to add cams and get 400 rwhp!

Now the part numbers:

Throttle Cable 1R3Z-9A758-CA $50.66
Cruise Cable XR3Z-9A825-BA $27.98
Coolant Crossover- $65-135 (new $135)
Hose- F7ZZ-8260-AA $15.37
Hose- F6ZZ-8286-C $7.93
Hose Assy- F8ZZ-8C350-AA $12.86
Hose F7ZZ-8A593-AB $20.35
Hose F7ZZ-8K576-AC $17.72
Hose-Water F7ZZ-8A507-AB $13.29
½ Thermo housing XR3Z-8K528-AA $42.40
½ Thermo housing F6ZZ-8592-BB $26.42
Seal for T-stat F1VY-8255-A $5.87
Bolts for T-stat (3) -W500015-S309 $5.40
T-stat Assy F50Z-8575-AA $12.57

I'm not sure but I believe these are the intake manifold gaskets and bolts:
Gasket XR3Z-9439-AB (2) $25.32
Gasket XR3Z-9E436-AC $21.26
Bolt and washer W704682-S437 (12) $19.56
Screw N806154-S437 $18.48

Cam (valve) cover gasket F7LZ-6584-BA $11.73
Cam (valve) cover gasket F7LZ-6584-AA $11.73

The prices are not Ford's prices, it's what I paid through Randy Stinchcomb off the Modular Depot forums. He's in Maryland at Liberty Ford and gives good prices to forum members. His number is: 410-655-3188 Give 'em a call! I just told him what I needed and he was able to put all the parts together and give me a total. He doesn't deal with Ford Racing parts, however.
 
See less See more
#3 · (Edited by Moderator)
pic of the new 4v...

2003 Mach 1 long block
2001 Cobra intake
JLT True Cold Air
Bassani Midlength Ceramic coated headers
Bassani Off-road X-pipe
Magnaflow Magnapacks
PA Racing K-member
polyurethane motor mounts
FR King Cobra clutch
Stock 99 GT flywheel
Stock 99 GT T45 tranny
Stock GT MAF
SCT Xcal 2 Tuned by Tony Gognon @ HP PERFORMANCE, Orange Park, FL


328 rwhp 344rwtq
Car Vehicle Automotive air manifold Motor vehicle Personal luxury car
Hood Car Automotive air manifold Motor vehicle Automotive fuel system
Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Plot
 
#5 · (Edited)
Funny thing, our cars are the same colors. Mine is a Saleen that I'm wanting to do the Mach 1 swap to. I have a some questions for you if you could help me out. I appreciate it, thanks.

1)Can I use my 2Vharness for the swap?
2)Can I use my orig. ECU?
3)will my accesories work off of my 2V? my donor longblock has no ac compressor etc.
 
#6 ·
Just a quick note..... The only reason for the 8 bolt in GTs (99-2000, very early 2001) is cause the motors got made in the Windsor plant and they used truck based cranks, therefore having 8 bolts...they aren't any stronger than the 6 bolt...so don't think you do or don't have something better!!!!:imao:

James
 
#7 ·
Never said the 8-bolts were any stronger or weaker. Just the fact that it's an 8-bolt and therefore w/ the Mach motor and forged 8-bolt crank, I was able to use my 99 GT flywheel to save some cash. If you want more info on the differences between Romeo and Windsor, go here:

Rebuilding the Ford 4.6L SOHC Engine, Doug Anderson, Engine Builder, April 2002

Now, you will be able to use your 2v harness but you'll have to cut and splice. The COP's are on the cam covers, not the intake so they need to be longer. The polarity also needs to be reversed. You can use your stock ECU but then you can't use the knock sensor. No big deal, tuners don't care for them that much anyway. You'll just have to get a custom tune which is what you'll want anyway. As far as the accessories, I was told my A/C wouldn't work from my 99 on an 03 Mach front cover but that wasn't true. Everything bolted up fine. Power steering too. However, 4v's used a different alternator. I have an extra one you can buy from me if you need it. You'll also need the pigtail connector for it and the bracket to bolt to the upper intake manifold. The more complete engine you can ge for the swap, the easier it will be. I also don't recommend spending money on an aftermarket MAF if you're just doing bolt-ons like CAI, and exhaust. I bought an SCT 2400 and my tuner told me I don't need it at my power level.
 
#10 ·
Never said the 8-bolts were any stronger or weaker. Just the fact that it's an 8-bolt and therefore w/ the Mach motor and forged 8-bolt crank, I was able to use my 99 GT flywheel to save some cash. If you want more info on the differences between Romeo and Windsor, go here:

Rebuilding the Ford 4.6L SOHC Engine, Doug Anderson, Engine Builder, April 2002

Now, you will be able to use your 2v harness but you'll have to cut and splice. The COP's are on the cam covers, not the intake so they need to be longer. The polarity also needs to be reversed. You can use your stock ECU but then you can't use the knock sensor. No big deal, tuners don't care for them that much anyway. You'll just have to get a custom tune which is what you'll want anyway. As far as the accessories, I was told my A/C wouldn't work from my 99 on an 03 Mach front cover but that wasn't true. Everything bolted up fine. Power steering too. However, 4v's used a different alternator. I have an extra one you can buy from me if you need it. You'll also need the pigtail connector for it and the bracket to bolt to the upper intake manifold. The more complete engine you can ge for the swap, the easier it will be. I also don't recommend spending money on an aftermarket MAF if you're just doing bolt-ons like CAI, and exhaust. I bought an SCT 2400 and my tuner told me I don't need it at my power level.
I never said anything about what YOU do or dont have in my post . It was just a general note for the swapping public at large. Dont get your panties in a bunch........

James
 
#8 ·
So to get this right all my accesories from my 2V will work. Just need to modify the harness a little bit. the only reason I wanted to keep my original stuff is so I can use my Saleen gauges etc. Thanks for all the info.

Is there anything I should be wary of? Any bumps in the install?
 
#9 ·
bump for awesome write up...i am sure i will be throwing some questions at ya when i get closer to ordering parts.
It is either going to be 3v or 4v...
 
#12 ·
hey man no need to be sorry. For all the research you did it was worth waiting for the finished write up.

Yup, you told me you would post a write up and that you did.
Thanks
 
#13 ·
Just FYI...the whole 6-bolt VS. 8-bolt is because of the auto VS. manual transmission in the cars.
MarkVIIIs have auto only, same for Marauders = cast cranks & 6 bolt.
Cobras have manual only = forged crank & 8 bolt.
The Machs-auto have cast crank & 6 bolt, manual has forged crank & 8-bolt.
Either way some good info for those interested.
 
#14 ·
True, auto machs and Lincolns have 6-bolt cast cranks, something to consider for saving money if you don't want to spend the cash on a new flywheel and your GT has the 6-bolt crank. Another reason why the aviator, marauder, auto mach's, and mark VII's are cheaper than Cobra and manual Mach engines.
 
#15 ·
resurecting this thread...

i am thinking of converting my 02 GT to a 4V and putting on a Eaton from the cobra. I will build my own shortblock then add the heads and everything to it. Is it reasonale to presume I can go to the junkyard and get most of the pieces and components that would generally come from a donor engine? my plan would be to do a sort of budget or real world build although that is probably a relative term. backing out the cost of building a shortblock, i would think the cost of a 4v swap plus eaton would be much less than a set of tfs heads and a blower (even going the used route on the blower). i would think the 4v swap would cost 1500-2000$ plus the eaton where as the TFS heads are 2,300$ plus another 2,500-3,500$ for a blower.

is this a reasonable assesment or am I daydreaming?
 
#16 ·
First, you might want to search the Eaton swap just to see how involved it is. It's something like $2-3k unless you can find a really good deal. Even though the 03-4 Machs have the same heads/cams as the 03-04 Cobras, they don't have the same timing cover. You can't just put a stock 03/04 Cobra Eaton on any 4v without changing the front timing cover, alternator, and pulleys etc. (Thank you for this Ford!!) Same goes for the Mark III's and older Cobra motors. You're best bet is to find a complete 03 or 04 Cobra engine and swap that in. Last I checked they were pretty expensive but you'll get everything you need without sourcing all the parts. Not sure about your local junkyards but you'll only find Mark IIIs in mine and good luck because everybody goes for the Teksid block. It really comes down to how much you want to spend and what your power goals are. A lot of people get plenty of power from the 2v with heads/cams/supercharger.

I personally didn't think the Eaton swap was worth the trouble. I'm also finding out that the piecing together a Vortech setup on my Mach motor is a lot more involved than your standard 2v.
 
#17 ·
the reason i was considering the 4V swap is that I am looking at the tork tech setup for my GT which comes out to around 3-3.5K. Now if I add in a mild shortblock, does it make sense to have the limits of the 2V heads or go ahead and do the 4V swap and drop the Eaton on?

Also, I see you made 328 rwhp which is awesome. How is the car to drive? I was also thinking maybe just doing a 4V swap but also biting the bullet and buying cams as well. What kind of power do you htink could be had from a cammed and 10.5:1 compression?
 
#18 ·
I did my swap back in 2006 and have had zero issues with it. Fires up every time like it came from the factory. I credit my tuner with that. Since I've reduced a lot of weight in the car from when I had my first Vortech on the 2v, the difference is night and day. I'm making about 50 less rwhp but my car is about 300lb lighter now. If I had more money at the time of the swap I would have done cams and ported heads which would put my dyno numbers close to about 380-400 rwhp with all the bolt ons. Just remember everything is more expensive for 4Vs so take that into consideration.

What kind of power or track times are you looking for? If you're just looking to run 12s, heads and cams on your 2v should get you there with some stick tires and 4.10 gears. If you're looking to run much faster, the 4v makes more sense but there are some really fast 2v cars out there too.
 
#19 ·
more or less I would like to be in the same league as stock coyotes, camaros, challengers, etc. car is a DD and just want to suprise the big boys you know. Maybe just an outright 4V swap with cams is a decent start?

then again, I am at 293 rwhp with exhaust and cams right now, so just adding a tork tech kit and eaton at 6-8 psi would put me over 400 rwhp. that still may be the bmost sensible route.

basically, aside from the variable cam timing, the coyote is a 4V with more displacement. If you are making 328 rwhp, a Boss 5.0 block would add 35 hp or so, putting you at 363 rwhp. Adding in the 15% drivetrain loss, you're at 417 fwhp. Hello coyote.
 
#20 ·
If you're asking for my opinion, I'd say stick with the cammed 2v and just add a blower. Its very easy and fairly cheap to add a Vortech centrifugal supercharger which should put you over 400rwhp easily with your cams. If you prefer the roots type blowers, go that route. You've already put some money in your current combo. Again, it really comes down to money. I chose the 4v route because it's different, makes more power than a heads/cammed 2v, aluminum block, and has a ton of potential.
 
#21 ·
I'm doing a very similar swap. I have an 03gt, and the 4valve I just got is from a 98 Lincoln. The engine is being removed today, and I'm picking it up tomorrow!

Questions:

1- Should I use the Radiator and Coolant from the Lincoln?
2- Will the ECU work from my car, or can I use Lincolns? Should I use ECu from a 96-98 Mustang?
3- Is the Coolant crossover included with the Lincoln? To be honest, I just purchased the long block only, but was considering going for the entire Coolant system.
4) Can I use the Fuel Rail (and fuel system) that came with the Lincoln? I do plan on using Lincolns intake for now.

Thanks!
 
#22 ·
1. You can use your stock radiator but you will need the 4v hoses/thermostat setup
2. Talk to your tuner. My tuner used my stock 99 GT ECU. I also used the GT engine harness and modified it for the 4v.
3. If you don't have a coolant crossover, I have mine for sale. $125 shipped
4. I don't see why not. I would recommend looking for a complete Cobra intake assy.
 
#23 ·
Thanks for the info!

I do have other questions as i'm trying to make as little visits to the junkyard as possible.

a - I heard I can use the same throttle cable from the Lincoln. Heard anything about that?
b - Also have you heard anything about shaving a pipe slightly in the back/bottom of the Lincoln teksid to make it fit?
c - I assume I can just use my alternator; or should I pick up a new one as well?

Thank you for your time!

e99;1790247]1. You can use your stock radiator but you will need the 4v hoses/thermostat setup
2. Talk to your tuner. My tuner used my stock 99 GT ECU. I also used the GT engine harness and modified it for the 4v.
3. If you don't have a coolant crossover, I have mine for sale. $125 shipped
4. I don't see why not. I would recommend looking for a complete Cobra intake assy.[/QUOTE]
 
#24 ·
I didn't use a Lincoln motor so I'm not to sure about the little specifics. I know others have so you can try searching around the web for more info. I know your stock alternator will not work on a 4V. I believe the SOHC is a 3G alt and the DOHCs use a 4G alternator.
 
#25 ·
Wow. This looks alot like my W/U I did back in 2007....Hmmmm...even the line at the end about Randy Stinchcomb at Liberty Ford, that he doesn't work at anymore. Nice job copy and pasting and adding a little of your own pizzaz.

matt

http://www.modularrevolution.com/forums/4vswap.php

Ive even posted my W/U on this forum numerous times. Don't take something that isn't yours...
 
#26 ·
Wow. Nice try "Matt" but you need to lay off the sauce. I didn't copy and paste your write up and claim it to be mine. Hmmmm...Matter of fact, your write up is entirely different than mine! You went with the Aviator and I went with the Mach 1 engine. I did a lot of research on this swap and I believe I even talked to you about it at some point amongst many other people. As you can see, I wrote this up in 2007 and the swap was actually done in 2006 BEFORE your write up. You act like you're the only one who's done a W/U and the only one who knew Randy. I used to go through him for all my Ford parts as did a lot of other people. I've talked to him on the phone a number of times. If you find anything incorrect in MY write-up you are free to message me directly otherwise STFU!
 
#27 ·
Funny I did mine in 2006 as well. And a Mach engine is the same as an Avi...just the intake manifold is different.

Sauce? what sauce do you speak of? Im all natural...5'10" and 205lbs...IDk what this has to do with the matter at hand....?

Just seemed very similar to my W/U I did years ago. If you didn't copy and paste some of my info, then so be it. Ill apologize now...just seemed very fishy on here. I was directed to this link from another 'unnamed' member on here thinking someone took my W/U and modified it...LIke I have seen on 2-3 other websites...

Carry on.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Well, I'm about to copy from the both of you since there is not "one" write up that goes over what I'm about to go through...: 98 Lincoln Teksid to a 03 Stang. People do this swap alot, but no write ups. I'll be sure to source the two of you "APA style" when or if I do a write up.

The details I got from the both of you are very helpful, but there are small things that I'm going to have to figure out the hard way. I definately spent too much time looking for every bit of detail for this swap

Picking up the engine today. All this is new to me. The max I've done to a car is Break changes, Oil, and a tad bit of body work. This task will be the biggest I've ever embarked on, so be ready for alot of communication from my end!


Patrick.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top