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Nation's Auto Electric Alternator Review

46K views 132 replies 36 participants last post by  Swerve 
#1 ·
For those who dont want to read.....it works.....amazing.

Ive had my Cobra a few years but seldom use it. It has a Whipple 2.9/TH400/Gear Vendors
The first dyno I had done the voltage dropped off below 12. Went and bought a NAPA unit and same shit.
Parked the car for a while then installed the auto, and now I believe I have come up with the ultimate solution for every Cobra owner on the planet.
I knew what I wanted, and how it needed to be designed, and was lucky enough to find Adam at Nations after reading this thread:
http://www.modularfords.com/f17/lost-my-new-alternator-16-passes-177604/

I know for a fact that the regulators are the problem in the alternator. They have an overtemp built into them and basically stop producing volts when the temp gets high. I tried the bigger pulley, cooling duct, etc. Nothing worked. Im also convinced the stock unit is not sufficient when you have 3 fuel pumps, trans cooler, yada yada yada. In stock form, maybe.

I knew that externally regulating the voltage would be the necessary fix, but self-researching gave me no difinitive solution....this is where Adam steps in.
I explained all of the problems Cobra owners have, and told him it has to have some more amperage and be externally regulated. Well, after a few days of thinking and a few days building, he shipped me this:





Next to Stock::




You are looking at a Nippendenso based unit. The front derives from an ambulance, and the rear comes from a Chrysler.
Adam needed to use the Chrysler rear because that is the only style that can have a 'dummy' regulator installed in it.
He also found me an OE 3.3" Pulley for it.
He made the wire loom and supplied all connectors and instructions how to hook up the regulator. As shipped, its set to make 14.2 volts (and I verified that) I set it to 14.6.

Before I get to the test drive, you will have to make a simple bracket to secure the bottom mount, and its actually about 1/2" shorter than stock: (hole spacing is 1.625")




Here is a top pic. (Adam supplied the correct spacers to correctly position the alternator, since the top leg is much shorter)
The fololwing pic is not the final configuration. I made my own spacers thinking Adams measurements were off but in fact his were dead on.



Now the good stuff....start up.

I shit you not I put a volt meter on it and it never budged from 14.6....not even when I revved it 4k+
Went out (86 degrees out) and drove it hard for about 20 minutes. IAT's got in the 150's, just to tell you how hot it was in the engine bay. Battery voltage was rock solid at 14.6, but the Aeroforce read 14.0-14.2

Here is where the dats gets interesting:
I had a meter on the battery I was monitoring. It never moved more than .1 volts no matter what the rpm.
The Aeroforce gauge however went to 13.6 on one WOT pull at 6k+ rpm's. AND this was with the headlights, fogs and AC on full blast!
The alternator works, and it works well. I wish I had weeks of testing to provide you, but I dont.
I do know that if i had a stocker on it, at those temps, the voltage would have dropped to 12.0 or lower on the Aeroforce.

In reference to the Aeroforce reading lower than the actual voltage measured at the battery, it makes me start to question the factory wiring as being a problem. (FYI my 3 pumps are run off a 6ga wire directly to the battery. I can rest easy knowing the pumps are getting full voltage.)
Since the majority of voltage problems happen at high RPM's, it makes me wonder if the Coil pack wiring is causing the MAJOR draw on the system???? Since they are activated with a negative pulse from the PCM, I am curious to see the results of wiring the coil packs off a heavy gauge wire and activated with a relay for each bank when they key is turned to ON. Id bet that would solve a lot of issues.

The alternator cost me $475, but I can finally put this problem to bed...for good.
Oh, almost forgot: You will actually need a LONGER belt when you install this.

I have a feeling Adam is gonna be a busy man come Monday, LOL
Nation Starter & Alternator,Tractor Auto,Marine,Truck,Small Engine
1-888-334-2632

I sure hope this helps others, as that was one of my original intents being the guniea pig.
 
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#2 ·
Cool stuff! Interested in the long term results but it seems you're on the right track. Are there any options for other sized pulleys? What kind of max RPM can this unit handle? $475 is hard to swallow at first but then again for those guys eating alternators constantly this would pay off in the long run.
 
#3 ·
I think he looked and found me the largest available pulley. I was going to remove it and see if the Metco pulley could be adapted, but decided to run it as is.

There are many different opinions on alternator rpm's. Some say spin them less, some say spin them faster so the internal fans cool them better.
RPM's doesnt make the majority of heat, AMPERAGE does! (and the hot ass engine bay)
 
#4 ·
Good stuff man!!! Glad Adam got something working for you. I was killing the 4g alt's left and right spinning my motor to 7500rpm's. I put a cobra R 4" saucer pulley on my last unit and it had lasted the longest but voltage still sucked. Called Adam and he hooked me up with the denso unit. With it's smaller 2.2 pulley he said don't worry about so I have been spinning it to 7500rpm's for the last 9 months no problems.
 
#10 ·
I was kinda wondering that as well... it may not have the adjustable regulator but it should be better than what some of us out there have ended up with.

The new unit is nice... but honestly for close to 500 bucks I'd expect it to be a straight bolt-in.

Shannon
 
#11 ·
Callin monday....thanks for the writeup. I like how you did the real world test with the driving. Alot of the time people think if its good when the car is cold/not heatsoaked they have a winnner. My car will test good when its cool/not soaked then it goes to hell.

Awesome info again!!!!!!! Thanks to Timmy and you for doing the legwork.
 
#22 ·
Perhaps I came off a bit gruff in my last post... it was early in the morning and I guess I was cranky :imao: Modifying things isn't a problem to me as I've had to modify things before to get them to fit like I wanted. I'm glad it works very well and is a fix to people with alternator problems... I just wish that for the price it costs that it had a better fitment is all.

I do wonder (and this is just thinking outloud here) why there couldn't be something developed using just the front cover of our alternators, that way there wouldn't be any need for modifying for fitment. Like I said its just a question... no "ill will" should be conceived from it.

Shannon
 
#17 ·
WantedDOA - if you're looking for steady voltage, then this would indeed appear to be a solution. Many of us don't drag race, however, and low voltage situations are not what many of us are concerned about; that the alternator will be reliable and not leave us stranded someplace is paramount.


I'm interested in the results of you abusing this thing - if it can withstand the beating, then it should be pretty fine for street use. I'm of the opinion that an externally regulated alternator will likely solve many of the problems.
 
#20 ·
not sure if you drive year round, and use both on street strip, but I'd be curious to see an update after several months of usage, i.e 3-4 months, and then again in 6-8 months of street strip abuse. Alot of alternators work good out of the box, but many do not seem to stand the test of time / abuse.

If I needed the alternator right now I'd give it a shot myself, as it turns out I won't need one for several months, I hope your results are good by the time I need one!!!

Thanks for the write-up!
 
#24 ·
wow...$475....he never called me back

Ill see how my new one holds up in a week or so....if it doesnt i guess im shellin gout $500
 
#25 ·
If my Start and Charge quits, I'll go the Nations Electric route as stated before this trial even began. Anyhow what's the deal with the external regulator? Is it just being in a cooler part of the engine bay that's doing the trick? If so I'll Killer Chill the stocker, for real best place should be behind a headlamp right?
 
#26 ·
If my Start and Charge quits, I'll go the Nations Electric route as stated before this trial even began. Anyhow what's the deal with the external regulator? Is eit jut being in a cooler part of the engine bay that's doing the trick? If so I'll Killer Chill the stocker, for real best place should be behind a headlamp right?
An internal regulator and external regulator are like apples and oranges. Aside from the.external regulator being hands down the higher quality part, the main objective is to keep it away from heat. Also, the external unit has larger electrical components....which work better and disapate heat more efficiently.
 
#34 ·
I emailed the quicktifier folks to see how it deals with the Ford alternators not having a dummy rectifier to put into place. It appears to be nothing but an external rectifier, and should operate under the same principal that the one WantedDOA has.
 
#35 ·
I emailed the quicktifier folks to see how it deals with the Ford alternators not having a dummy rectifier to put into place. It appears to be nothing but an external rectifier, and should operate under the same principal that the one WantedDOA has.
The rectifier is not the problem.
The voltage regulator/brush holder in a 6G alternator is HEAT SENSITIVE and will stop commanding voltage production at a certain temperature.
 
#36 · (Edited)
That is not true in every case - in my case, my voltage doesn't drop even though the battery light may be on or off - I've monitored it with a voltmeter. With the car OFF, I see the 12.x volts expected from the battery; with the car running I see from 13.6 - 12s. Even when the battery light is ON, I've seen voltage in the 13.6 range, and I have observed the battery light change state (ON to OFF or OFF to ON) with no attendant change in voltage.

I am not saying that the regulator is not the fault sometimes, but, in my case, it doesn't appear to be the issue.

If the rectifier is not a problem, why would Adam have gone through the extra trouble to set you up with an external rectifier?

EDIT: I just re-read - he set up an external regulator - I was reading it as an external rectifier.

I recall reading a post where someone - an alternator expert is my understanding - stated that the voltage in the stock units breaks down when they are spun too fast, and, as the Cobra sits - it will spin the stock alternator too fast when it reaches the upper RPMs of operation.
 
#37 ·
That is not true in every case - in my case, my voltage doesn't drop even though the battery light may be on or off - I've monitored it with a voltmeter. With the car OFF, I see the 12.x volts expected from the battery; with the car running I see from 13.6 - 12s. Even when the battery light is ON, I've seen voltage in the 13.6 range, and I have observed the battery light change state (ON to OFF or OFF to ON) with no attendant change in voltage.

I am not saying that the regulator is not the fault sometimes, but, in my case, it doesn't appear to be the issue.

If the rectifier is not a problem, why would Adam have gone through the extra trouble to set you up with an external rectifier?

EDIT: I just re-read - he set up an external regulator - I was reading it as an external rectifier.

I recall reading a post where someone - an alternator expert is my understanding - stated that the voltage in the stock units breaks down when they are spun too fast, and, as the Cobra sits - it will spin the stock alternator too fast when it reaches the upper RPMs of operation.
I too was a partial believer in the 'spinning too fast' theory, but Im almost positive thats not the problem. Spinning a shaft on 2 bearings doesnt make an enormous amount of heat, but amperage does!
Some alternator guys Ive spoken with (quite a few) suggest spinning it FASTER to allow the internal fans to work better.

All I know is this:
The Cobra engine compartment does not dissapate heat good to begin with. Combine that with a puny 105a Alternator, electric fans, AC, fuel pumps and fog lights and the stock style alternator just cant keep up. Its working at full capacity, with a piss poor voltage regulator, and air flow the equivalent of sitting on the Sun lol.

The fact that the Nation's unit has been upped in amps in a better designed case with better internals, means that the alternator itself is making less heat....which is why it works. (of course in addition to the external regulator.)
 
#38 ·
Wanted - the theory on why it breaks down at higher alternator shaft speeds has to do with the fields inside of the alternator, not anything mechanical.

I'm not surprised that what you have from Adam works better - the stock Alternator seems to be a pretty compromised design.
 
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