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My Twin Turbo Build

18K views 72 replies 4 participants last post by  eschaider 
#1 ·
Hi Ed,
i need some advice on phasing my cams, this is for a 4.6 teksid with heavily ported B heads 4.75 stoker, forged internals, adjustable primary and secondary sprockets, twin turbo in my Nash Metro. Cams are Comp Cams
106-403-9 ...specs are exhaust 116 CL duration 232 deg and intake 112 CL with 234 deg duration.

the car was running before an unfortunate oil pressure problem it was a slug off the line but really flies when it gets moving, any suggestions as to advancing intake or exhaust and by how much? thanks JT
 
#56 ·
Hi Ed well I have to decide this very soon so I can tell my machine shop what to do...I can’t see any chance of lugging I run a power glide with a 4500 stall,

On another matter I removed all my block and head freeze plugs (turns out they were perfect inside) so want to replace them...Steel or Brass? I favor brass but I’ve never put them in an aluminum block or head before. I see some folks threading their blocks and heads and screwing in Big Aluminum bungs, seems like overkill?
Thanks Jonathan
 
#57 · (Edited)
Hi Ed well I have to decide this very soon so I can tell my machine shop what to do...I can't see any chance of lugging I run a power glide with a 4500 stall,

On another matter I removed all my block and head freeze plugs (turns out they were perfect inside) so want to replace them...Steel or Brass? I favor brass but I've never put them in an aluminum block or head before. I see some folks threading their blocks and heads and screwing in Big Aluminum bungs, seems like overkill?
Thanks Jonathan
The way the engine will get lugged down is if the car gets squirrely and you need to short shift it to get it back under control. Absent that kind of a scenario you will find it pretty difficult to lug the motor with your combination. As long as the engine speed stays up (and the engine doesn't detonate) the gaskets will stay in. Detonation, while not impossible on the alcohols, is pretty hard to make happen. Clearly not impossible but pretty tough to pull off. My guess is that with those two qualifiers the MLS gaskets you intend to use will serve you well.

The down the road consideration you might want to factor in is the go faster factor. As you settle in from an operations perspective and also a performance perspective there is the ever present urge to push harder. That urge will push you over the line from an MLS solution to the more traditional stainless wire and copper gasket solution for supercharged engines. The mitigating factor here will be stability under power and at speed for a short wheelbase race car. You might just decide (from a safety perspective) that a certain performance threshold is not worth trying to breach for the next higher - in which case the MLS solution will work well for the foreseeable future.

With respect to freeze plugs on a dual purpose vehicle that sees shared street and race track use, I would favor the steel freeze plug. The brass plug is more malleable with less spring to it than the steel which means the steel will likely last longer. The nice thing about the threaded aluminum plugs is the ease of installation, certainty of sealing and absolute plug retention under power. The under power part is the significant issue. If you blow out a freeze plug under power on a pass and the water gets under the rear tires it is as if you do a burn out - except at high speed where you are likely to crash the car.

If you notice each of the responses I have provided you is looking at worst case scenarios because that is typically what race cars dish out to us. In those worst case scenarios you want to have the odds in your favor not against you and then hope you never have to experience one. The rationale is similar to the thinking that produces redundancy in critical systems and equipment on aircraft - which I know you can identify with. You hope an pray you never need it but if you do ...

Ed

p.s. As cute as that car is (and it is), it is a life threatening scenario. I like to stack the deck in my favor whenever I am in one of those scenarios.
 
#59 · (Edited)
Summit or Jegs are both good choices for the head gaskets, Jonathan. There are a number of manufacturers of the gaskets these days. I like SCE partly because they have been around a long time and partly because their gaskets are cut on a CNC Waterjet table. Additionally they can make "special" gaskets fairly quickly because of their Waterjet technology.

The gaskets are available from Summit and Jegs (same price). One style of the Gasket is called the SCE Titan gasket and the other is called the SCE Pro Gasket. The Titan gasket is a plain flat copper gasket with oil and water seals on both sides of the gasket that looks like this,

Art Font Audio equipment Circle Symmetry


The gaskets are reusable and the oil and water seals will usually last two maybe three disassemblies. As they deteriorate a little RTV will reseal the oil and water passages in the gaskets back up again very nicely. The proper o-ring wire diameter is 0.041". You can reuse the gaskets six to eight times possibly more depending on their condition.

The Pro gasket offering is the same but without the oil and coolant seals. The difference in cost is $51 per gasket for the Pro gaskets w/o the coolant and oil seals and $73 a gasket with. The part numbers for the gaskets look like this

Pro Gaskets (no seals) - $51 each. L & R indicate left and right

SCE-P466243L
SCE-P466243R

Titan Gaskets (the ones with the seals) - $73 each. L & R indicate left and right

SCE-T466243L
SCE-T466243R

I went looking for the O-Ring wire at Summit and they didn't have it. Jegs does, it is 0.041" diameter 304 stainless wire. They get about $14 for enough to do 10 cylinders. Here is the link to Jegs click here => O-Ring Wire

Here is an good guide off the SCE website for O-Ring groove dimensions but in the head not the block;

Line Font Parallel Slope Diagram


SCE likes to put the O-Ring in the block and the receiver groove in the head. This will not work. The gasket copper is harder than the aluminum in the heads and will mush out the receiver groove in the head destroying the heads. The O-Ring must go in the head and the receiver groove must go in the block.

Here is the SCE guide for the O-Ring receiver groove dimensions. They show it as being in the head. That is wrong the receive groove must be in the top of the sleeve flanges;

Organism Font Line Parallel Circle


Again they like to show O-Rings in the block and receiver grooves in the heads. Should be just the opposite. That said their dimensional guidance is spot on.

If anything seems wrong email or call me and we will get it squared away.

Ed
 
#61 · (Edited)
Gibtec will typically call out a 0.004" PTW spec for the pistons. If you can manage the engine temperature into a 180˚F to 190˚F (82˚C to 88˚C) window you can easily run 0.035" PTW or a whisker tighter 0.032" PTW. Ring life will improve, leak down will improve and internal frictional drag will decrease. With either of the alcohols the 180˚F target should be pretty easy to maintain.

Gasoline will add difficulty to maintaining the 180˚F temp but will not preclude it — just don't run the engine lean. If you have E-10 fuel at the pumps, like we do stateside, be sure to remember the Stoich point drops from 14.7 to 14.08 which translates into an 11.2 AFR as the line in the sand you don't want to go leaner than.

Try to stay with the alcohols (E-85), the motor will like the fuel, the plugs last much longer, detonation is all but unheard of, yada, yada, yada.

When your install the sleeves do not finish the bores to a standard bore spec number. Once you have assigned pistons to bores for balancing purposes then measure each piston and fit that piston to its assigned bore. Tbe torque plates are nice to use but not important for the same reasons they are on cast iron blocks or aluminum blocks with cast in place sleeves. The big benefit to torque plates with replaceable sleeves is that they hold the sleeve in place while boring and finish honing. You will not experience bore distortions with replaceable liners like you did with cast in place sleeves.

Tease us a bit with some liner porn, liner installation porn and piston porn :)


Ed
 
#62 · (Edited)
Hi Guys well i went to my machine shop and delivered the pistons, unfortunately they have not started the sleeving process...heres some pics of the Gibtech pistons, they look great!!
Product Packaging and labeling Plastic Font Packing materials
Automotive tire Rim Bumper Gas Motor vehicle
Food Kitchen appliance Gas Machine Cookware and bakeware


We had a test and tune at the track the other day and I'm still running the car with a completely stock lincoln MKVIII engine while i build the race engine...car runs great with 10 PSI boost 11.3 sec (amazing what those powdered metal rods and cast crank can handle):)

Tire Car Cloud Wheel Vehicle
 
#64 · (Edited)
Very impressive Jonathan! Hard to guesstimate an et but based on the video timer it looks like a high 9 or low 10 second pass. You struck the tires at the hit which cost you probably a half second or more.

Very nice job and a 100% home brew racer!


Ed
 
#65 ·
Hi Ed thanks for the Positive comments 😁. The car has begun to settle down and I’m finally getting all the technology to work together!

The above track video was with the completely stock Lincoln MkVIII engine (except for intake and turbos) 10psi boost. New engine still at machine shop...we hope to get her into the high to mid 8s as an ultimate goal. Thanks for looking. Jonathan
 
#66 ·
Well it’s been a long delay due to late supply of some parts and backlog at machine shop but I finally Have my Race engine back at my shop.
We re worked another set of B heads ported polished, bronze guides and Manley valves.

Teksid Block now has LA sleeves 😊

I still have to file and fit rings and install pistons and Rods.

Heads are ready and we build a New Jig to hold Two Dial gauges as per Ed’s design and we are happy with how it looks...excited to use it when I get back from my next trip.

Jonathan
 

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#67 · (Edited)
If you just put the finger followers on the two valves you are working with, the cam phasing job will go a bit easier, Johnathan. Another learned the hard way technique involves the use of the Ford cam locking tool with aftermarket cams.

Aftermarket cams have a large hex between cylinders 2&3 and 6&7 making it impossible to fit the Ford tool in. If you use cylinder 6 to degree for the driverside you can take off the back cam saddle ladders opening up the stock diameter shafts between cylinders 7&8 which the OEM cam locking tool will easily fit on to. Passenger side is the same story. Degree off #1 and lock between #'s 3&4 with the cam tower caps off again.

I sent you an email with a tool attached.


Ed
 
#68 ·
Hi Ed
Well after replacing all the head studs due to broken and or stretched studs we got the cams all dialed in within 1/4 of a degree using the same twin dial gauge you recommend.
so I was happy heads went back on with new gaskets and the new studs ..then I decided to use my leakdown tester that connects through a tube I made to fit the spark plug hole.
I noticed that all the intakes were leaking slightly I have Duct tape over them so even the smallest leak is obvious.

So we tore it down again and lapped all the valves...I noticed the the machine shop had done a poor job of lapping the intakes.

After putting it all back together (using used head gaskets for testing) 11 out of 16 intakes have a tiny leak not enough to feel with your forearm or barely even audible but the duct take gives it away .

My logic says the valves should be 100% leak free...any thoughts please I’m about to remove the heads again and go to another machine shop.

Thanks Jonathan
 

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#69 · (Edited)
The valves should seal completely, Jonathan. The air test you use is a good indicator. Someone a long time ago taught me to use rubbing alcohol to do the test. I fill the port behind the valve just enough to cover the backside of the valve and then look for leakage on the chamber side of the valve. You can also do it the other way around filing the chamber and looking for leakage on the port side of the valves. Properly ground and certainly lapped, the valves should not leak. That said it is not uncommon to find a slight webpage of alcohol (in my case) through a valve that was open as the engine cooled.

The leakage is attributable to lilting or slight bending of the valve as it cools. When the engine next starts and comes up to temperature the valve straightens right out and seals correctly. Leakage after a valve job and a valve lapping says wither the valve or the seat is not co-axially aligned with the valve guide. If the valves insdicate straight when you check their seating surface in a lathe with a dial indicator it means the valve seat is sinking in the head. The sinking valve seat is not uncommon for OEM seats in particular the exhausts. It is not that common with intakes.

If the seat(s) are moving in the head they need to be replaced with good aftermarket seats installed with an increased press fit.



Ed
 
#70 ·
Hi Guys well i have been quiet but very busy!!
i managed to buy a nice souix valve seat machine when I was in los Angeles just before the world descended into Chaos so got it home and i was able you correct the seats that the machine shop did a lousy job on...so we finally got the engine in the car and with all this spare time have managed to correct a lot of small defects that the car had accumulated since it was originally built.

The engine Runs Awesome!!! :)

im still using pump gas and 160 LB injectors at this time and have not actually driven it yet....with the twin Turbos and estimated max Boost of 28 PSI and 11-1 comp I'm planning the switch to E85 or Methanol ( methanol is now more readily available) so im trying to figure how far i can take it without changing the 160 lb injectors.

i did buy 8 Bosch 220LB units that were advertised as correct but when i got them they have the wrong connectors (but with 8 adaptor jumpers in kit) but they were also very short and they came with an aluminum extension sleeve and fit the injector into the sleeve is very poor, the injector can wobble around and not even line up directly with bore!! i will not use them:mad2: its costs a lot when you try to save money hahha.

hope all our Modular guys and families are safe from the big bad virus.

regards jonathan
 
#71 · (Edited)
Jonathan, if you run 28 psi in the intake you are right at the upper limits of a 2200cc injector's flow capacity assuming a 100% duty cycle. This is similar to where we found ourselves with Mofasta's car. To properly fuel the car at those boost levels it requires two 2200cc injectors per cylinder. The power at that boost level is scary. Both from a point of getting acclimated and also proper fueling you might want to step back to around 20 psi boost. At 20 psi you will need 2100 cc injectors running at an 85% duty cycle - basically the big injectors you have right now.

If you intend to run the car at the higher boost levels I would modify your intake manifold to use two injectors per port. Here are some pictures of how AJ's manifold was modified for the twin injector setup. The first picture is the manifold after initial machining to get the OEM single injector mounts out of the ports:

Light Blue Gas Automotive exterior Bumper


This is the manifold after fabricating the new dual injector registers for each port and doing a mock up assembly prior to welding;

Crankset Automotive tire Wheel Vehicle brake Tire


This is the finished manifold with the new injector registers welded in place;

Gas Machine Auto part Engineering Metal


The weld shop bolted a blower plate to the blower mounting surface to minimize distortion and also used large aluminum heat sinks bolted to the intake port flanges to minimize distortion from the welding. Done this way it is possible to keep the machined surfaces flat enough you may not have to remachine them or if you do it is a very, very light clean up cut required.

Because your manifold is a fabricated piece your modification for dual injectors might be a bit easier.

The 160 lb injectors are waaaaaaay too small for methanol even for 20 psi of boost. Do not attempt to race the car with them installed.

Ed
 
#73 ·
As crazy as it sounds the best results we have had at 28 psi and very high compression was with NGK TR6's. The intuitive response when you up the boost and think of which plug you want is to go a notch cooler but as luck would have it the TR6's turn out to be real soldiers. EGT's in that engine run around 1000 ˚F (538 ˚C) so it is a much cooler combustion process than any gasoline fuel you have ever experienced.

While methanol is quite detonation resistant it is not detonation proof so be cautious about total timing and how heavily you load the engine when. My recommendation would be to use 23˚ as an absolute high-water mark until you begin to get a good comfort level with the car on the new fuel. A power glide will load the engine more than a TH400 because it will not have as much mechanical advantage with the PG 1st gear compared to a TH400 with its available first gears that range from 2.10 to 2.45. The additional loading will make the engine more hungry for fuel until you can get the engine speed above 6000 rpm. If you get stingy with fuel, especially at lower engine speeds, when the car is hooked up and pulling hard you can detonate the methanol.

As yo begin to step up the boost later next year or the following year give some serious thought to replacing your electric fuel pumps with a cable driven Waterman mechanical pump. When you get ready to make the transition I'll give you more detail about the fueling change.

Don't forget your engine is quite happy and produces considerable power at the 8500 rpm and higher engine speeds so don't leave that fairly impressive power untapped once you get the engine fueling appetite sorted out.


Ed
 
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