Ported heads and cams. proof of gains - Page 2

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ugotbit View Post
    With my Cams and L/T's I was dropping around 4psi. The car made 610/545 with 15.5 psi. Something was working.
    what cams are you running? I need to hear / see this beast in person!

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  3. #17
    4.6 ways to waste money Array ugotbit's Avatar
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    I have the Stg 2 Comps, not sure on the grind number. It's got some chop, sounds good. Chugs in stop and go traffic like a mo-fo.

    When the KB bit the dust I jumped on the Eaton revival and had Posi port it and Accufab inlet. I hope to have it running again this week, I'm hoping for mid 500's when all is said and done.

  4. #18
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    what KB did you have? I was looking to get a 2.8h this winter & the crower stg 3s with a port.

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  6. #19
    4.6 ways to waste money Array ugotbit's Avatar
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    Good ol' 2.2. Melted a seal internally due to my "overspinning it" was pullyed for 21 psi. Was going to go 2.8 Mammoth, but bought a motorcycle.

    I have a wet kit sitting here for the car, we will see how it goes all blower. If I can get into the 10's again with the Eaton I would be stoked.

  7. #20
    Senior Member Array GodStang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne64SS View Post
    what KB did you have? I was looking to get a 2.8h this winter & the crower stg 3s with a port.
    Crower Stage IIIs are wussie cams...

  8. #21
    4.6 ways to waste money Array ugotbit's Avatar
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    ^^^ lol

    I did have issues with the Crowers having flat spots. I could see and feel them, and I'm not talking about where they are supposed to be flat.

    Returned them, got the Comps. They had flat spots too. Sent back like 3 exhaust cams before I got a good one.

    Custom ground and degreed are your best bet. Cams are $$$ and no reason to replace them unless your in there for another reason IMO

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodStang View Post
    Crower Stage IIIs are wussie cams...
    lol obviously!

  10. #23
    Senior Member Array Dan's Avatar
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    the issue i have with compairing numbers is just like the ported eaton guys... you have steg who starts out with a lean tip in and then in the middle of the graph you see 12:3 air fuel then the end ofthe run you see a 13.? what ever. in my mind these are not usable numbers because the entire run is too lean. yes you can and will make more power but you will cause other issues. that is why you cant get any info on heads because everyone thinks they are right.

  11. #24
    4.6 ways to waste money Array ugotbit's Avatar
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    For the record my Grind # is -XE266BH-116

    Intake- lift .475 Duration @ .050-230
    Exhaust-Lift.450 Duration @ .050-232

  12. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    the issue i have with compairing numbers is just like the ported eaton guys... you have steg who starts out with a lean tip in and then in the middle of the graph you see 12:3 air fuel then the end ofthe run you see a 13.? what ever. in my mind these are not usable numbers because the entire run is too lean. yes you can and will make more power but you will cause other issues. that is why you cant get any info on heads because everyone thinks they are right.
    +100


    I have a lot to say on this subject, because recently there have been quite a few cam threads popping up, and much misinformation is being spread. So just skip to the parts your curious about lol.



    What people I think misunderstand when they are talking about Eaton cars is this, the factory H/C combo already outflows the blower. The problem with doing heads and cams is, even if you do pic up a bit of power from added efficiency, you can't just pulley up for more boost, because your out of blower! Trying to spin the blower harder will at best yield some cute peak dyno numbers with a ton of ice, that will never be repeated on the street with a reasonable amount of heat in the car. If you want to stick to the eaton and add power, get some nitrous, it helps crutch the limiting factor in the combo, the blower.

    Now with bigger blowers that flow enough to be repullied back up to the old boost level, then yes, you stand to benefit from that. However, since the factory blower is already maxed out with the stock heads/cams, why do people think that opening the valve longer or farther is magically going to add power? An engine is an airpump, no magical cams, or BS dyno chart with some wild correction factor will change that. You want the eaton to make more power? Raise the compression of your motor! That way the blower has less cylinder to fill, so it can produce more boost with less RPM and make more power. The only downside is the added octane requirement.

    Obviously, most rules have exceptions, and in certain applications (like those looking to max out the factory setup for stock style racing, or others who need every Hp despite the cost) then you could probably play with some cams and cam timing and maybe move your power curve up a bit, but it's a pretty simple fact that other then the power you might pick up from getting the cams correctly timed, and the 2nd order effect from efficiency gains, your just not going to gain much.

    1.7L Blower @ X Rpm flows Y amount of air

    So to restate my question: If the motor is already accepting all the air the eaton is capable of flowing in an efficient manner, why is it people are expecting magical gains by opening the intake/exhaust ports farther/longer?

    I think people get confused with how much power a cam adds to a pushrod motor when coupled with other parts. Since we have factory heads and cams that far outflow our factory blower, we are pretty much getting what there is to be had from that setup. Believe me, I'm not an eaton hater, I played with my eaton for years before finally making the T/S jump. I think a setup like Mofasta has (that cog) would be more beneficial to people looking to max out the eaton. No super set of cams or magic head port will make a 1.7L Eaton blower make anything near 600rwhp SAE on an 8.5:1ci 4.6L DOHC motor.

    Cat600 and I discussed this in another thread and he brought up an excellent point with examples to back it about the 5.4L motor's benefiting from cams. This example shows you a motor that with factory H/C wasn't able to take all the blower had efficiently so they picked up about 35rwhp. That's a 5.4L DOHC with a 2.8H. Impressive gain, but if that combo picked up 35rwhp, just how much power do you think a 4.6 with a 1.7 Eaton roots blower can pick up?
    Last edited by tampa03cobra; 07-20-2009 at 07:14 PM.

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    I feel compelled to add a comment about how improving the intrinsic VEe of the motor, (i.e., VE relative to manifold conditions), and the commensurate drop in boost pressure, relates to the octane requirement of the motor. One needs to be careful.

    Cylinder pressure (and hence knock) goes in proportion to the mass of air ingested. (This is can be shown...equations on request.) Improve VEe, and yes boost will drop, but the mass of air going in stays roughly the same. (If anything, it may go up a little due to an increase in VE of the blower, i.e., VEsc.) Therefore, one hasn't really improved the situation much in the way of knock.

    If one then increases the pulley ratio to bring the boost back up, now the engine is ingesting more air, so cylinder pressure does go up. Hence, this increases the octane requirement. So be careful...it's not the panacea that one might think. It's not the same as dropping boost via increased engine displacement.

    Here's my original comments:
    https://modularfords.com/showthread.php?t=126489

  14. #27
    Senior Member Array mr. couper's Avatar
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    well doesnt look like i have the funds for some custom grinds. Maybe gt cams and livernois lifters since i have the heads off already. will it be worth it or just stay stock?

  15. #28
    4.6 ways to waste money Array ugotbit's Avatar
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    If you have the heads off, then go for it. I would stay on the small side, Stg 1 or 2 and go from there. A off the shelf grind will work, there is good info in the build 4.6 HP on the dyno book. There is a article with the Earls automotive car making 900+ with a 2.4 KB and some compression. I know John Mihovetz posted the results on here as well.

  16. #29
    Senior Member Array mr. couper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ugotbit View Post
    If you have the heads off, then go for it. I would stay on the small side, Stg 1 or 2 and go from there. A off the shelf grind will work, there is good info in the build 4.6 HP on the dyno book. There is a article with the Earls automotive car making 900+ with a 2.4 KB and some compression. I know John Mihovetz posted the results on here as well.
    I can only afford the gt cams right now which are about 425. Thats why I put this out there, unless you know of another inexpensive cam that will work also. If not, will it be worth putting in the gt cams?

  17. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. couper View Post
    I can only afford the gt cams right now which are about 425. Thats why I put this out there, unless you know of another inexpensive cam that will work also. If not, will it be worth putting in the gt cams?
    I would think 98 Cobra cams would be better and cheaper. They are more aggressive even though only so slightly. The actual measurement of GT cams is alot less than the Ford rates them at.

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