What if? Built Coyote in an 03/04 Cobra?

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  1. #1
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    Default What if? Built Coyote in an 03/04 Cobra?

    Not that I would actually follow through with such a conversion, but I like to think about such things anyway and thought it would make a good technical discussion. So I have a few questions about this new 4valve 4.6 vs. the old 4valve 4.6. Here we go....

    What would the advantage be of the adjustable cam timing with a positive displacement twin screw set up?

    How much power would the high flow heads on the new Coyote engine make over the 03 heads?

    Would it be a waste of time and more trouble that it is worth compared to a built pre-coyote 4valve?

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    Senior Member Array GodStang's Avatar
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    The Coyote is a 5.0L. I remember seeing somewhere that the heads or anything are not interchangeable and that this engine can not handle boost and is about maxed out from the factory. Not sure how true this is. Add a Kenne Bell on the 03-04s and you are over 600. Will take a lot more to do that with the Coyote.

    Now the Coyote is suppose to be a badass engine if you are able to swap parts which I doubt you could make a badass 03-04.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metaman View Post
    Not that I would actually follow through with such a conversion, but I like to think about such things anyway and thought it would make a good technical discussion. So I have a few questions about this new 4valve 4.6 vs. the old 4valve 4.6. Here we go....

    What would the advantage be of the adjustable cam timing with a positive displacement twin screw set up?

    How much power would the high flow heads on the new Coyote engine make over the 03 heads?

    Would it be a waste of time and more trouble that it is worth compared to a built pre-coyote 4valve?
    See many technical engineer articles on how the engine works with regards to variable valve timing. I speculate that the control mechanism is not mechanical. I further speculate that it's controlled electrically. From what little I've read about the engine I believe this is true. So, I imagine to use coyote heads on the cobra 4.6 you need to swap out into control computers.

    If I were to transplant this engine to anything, it would be a fox body, owing to the Fox body's lighter weight and availability. (There are many junker foxed bodies around, rolling stock, it would make an interesting project.) I am, however, not sure of the new engines dimensions. I'm also not sure of what modifications you would need to make to the Fox engine bay to do this. Sounds like a fun project which I could do it. If anybody out there is thinking of doing such a project I'd like to know.

    -Ted

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    I don't know they are tapped out from the factory. According to the article in R&T this month Ford designed them to accept bolt on power adders. What I heard from my buddy, a Ford Parts Counter employee (who is in contact with Ford Racing as they are a distributor) they already have a Whipple on one running 7 lb. boost making over 500 hp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tractionless View Post
    I don't know they are tapped out from the factory. According to the article in R&T this month Ford designed them to accept bolt on power adders. What I heard from my buddy, a Ford Parts Counter employee (who is in contact with Ford Racing as they are a distributor) they already have a Whipple on one running 7 lb. boost making over 500 hp.
    running 7 pounds of boost? I thought these engines were arty high compression. this I thought they were about 11 to 1, but I could be wrong. Where would you ever buy gas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tractionless View Post
    I don't know they are tapped out from the factory. According to the article in R&T this month Ford designed them to accept bolt on power adders. What I heard from my buddy, a Ford Parts Counter employee (who is in contact with Ford Racing as they are a distributor) they already have a Whipple on one running 7 lb. boost making over 500 hp.
    11.0:1 compression I just really don't see how that's "blower ready". I could be wrong. I have been before. Also The whipple @ 7lbs I would think would be maxing out and only making 500hp or just over. Again the 03-04 is over 600 on stock bottom end with a few crazy guys making 700-800rwhp on stock bottom end TS. I am no way saying the 03-04 is better I am just saying it would not be worth the swap.

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    The displacement, increased flow in the heads and the Variable valve cams would definitely help. I am guessing if you took the basic twin screw setup (17 to 20 psi) and added it to this engine you would see an additional 100 rwhp over the 03/04 cobra engine. Maybe a bit less. I think someone will try this setup, but it will be a while until the aftermarket catch up and everything get's cheap enough. Hopefully ford will do direct injection on this engine soon. This will mean even more power.
    Hopefully ford will release a mustang that sits between the GT and the GT500. One that has direct injection, supercharged with a eaton. I think 1000rwhp on this engine would be possible. With a TS running at 18 to 20 psi (Whipple 3.4). Might need to stroke it and play with the head and cams but I think the potential is there.

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    Senior Member Array GodStang's Avatar
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    18-20psi on 11.0:1 compression and a ford stock bottom end?????

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    Member Array taronis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodStang View Post
    18-20psi on 11.0:1 compression and a ford stock bottom end?????
    yes, it does sound like an explosive combination. I'm not sure how strong the bottom end of this engine but being that it's aluminum block, I wouldn't push the threads that the mains are bolted into. Having seen sparkplugs pushed out of the aluminum head of a cobra engine, I can imagine you can push the bolts out of the main journals in an aluminum block just as easily. That is why they don't run superhigh compression ratios on aluminum racing engines. I do believe an 11 to 1 compression ratio combined with significant boost cannot lead to engine longevity. I don't know of any aluminum blocks used in professional drag racing. But, I have been known to be wrong before.

    -Ted

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    Quote Originally Posted by taronis View Post
    I don't know of any aluminum blocks used in professional drag racing. But, I have been known to be wrong before.

    -Ted
    Mihovetz puts 2300hp through an aluminum 4.6

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    Quote Originally Posted by GodStang View Post
    18-20psi on 11.0:1 compression and a ford stock bottom end?????
    Di you not read the title of this thread?

    "What if? Built Coyote in an 03/04 Cobra?"

    Makes a world a difference huh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hj16 View Post
    Mihovetz puts 2300hp through an aluminum 4.6
    I did not know that. I did not know that block weight, the reason most people who use aluminum blocks, was a major concern. Then again, I don't know everything.

    Thanks,
    -Ted

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    Quote Originally Posted by hj16 View Post
    Di you not read the title of this thread?

    "What if? Built Coyote in an 03/04 Cobra?"

    Makes a world a difference huh?
    Sometimes keeping a discussion on topic is impossible. They tend to evolve as different topics are brought up within the conversation. I think the original premise of this thread was covered sufficiently in the first couple of posts.

    Other than bragging rights, I see no advantages in placing a coyote engine in a 03/04 cobra as there are a myriad of aftermarket pieces that can significantly increase the output of the 4.6 L engine. The cobra engine as it stands is a good starting point for Power modifications. The internals, at least for street use, are bullet proof as are four bolt mains.

    Furthermore, I don't understand the difference it makes.



    As I said earlier, if I were to put a Coyote engine into anything, it would be into a Fox body.

    peace,
    -Ted
    Last edited by taronis; 02-09-2010 at 04:37 PM. Reason: Fixing wording

  16. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by GodStang View Post
    The Coyote is a 5.0L. I remember seeing somewhere that the heads or anything are not interchangeable and that this engine can not handle boost and is about maxed out from the factory. Not sure how true this is.
    The GT350 uses the 5.0L with a blower and gets 500hp, I dont think its maxed from the factory. Shelby isnt gonna want to be replacing that many engines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 03_StangGuy View Post
    The GT350 uses the 5.0L with a blower and gets 500hp, I dont think its maxed from the factory. Shelby isnt gonna want to be replacing that many engines.
    I'd be very surprised if it was maxed out from the factory. Simple good engineering practice calls for for designing in a margin, first of all. I'm also certain that Ford does not want to kill its aftermarket as many true enthusiasts opt for Mustangs. So, I am sure there is room in the design for improvement. I think the big question of placing the blower on the as designed coyote engine revolves around its stock compression ratio. High compression and forced induction are usually mutually exclusive in terms of engine longevity. This is at least true for engines consisting of OEM parts.

    But, that's only my sodomy issue,
    -Ted

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