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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by stangfreak View Post
    Spoke to a few guys about the kit that have them on there cobras. They are spraying post throttle body instead of pre or into the intake. Some noticed when they were spraing into the intake the throttle body would close faster than the meth kit was able to turn off thus creating little pools in the intake tube. Person who discovered this didn't see a drop in temp. So basically just a octane booster he said. This is on a twinscrew car.

    Also went on your page and saw the kits. I'm interested in buying a kit. Just for the octane boost it gives it should work well. I run vp100. So vp100 with meth should be great. Does your kit come with that 3 way solenoid?
    Do yourself a favor and spend a few extra bucks on a good e85 setup. You will regret going with water/meth if you have the ability to run e85 full time. The risk of letting a tank of e85 sit in your car over the winter is nothing compared to the headache of tuning water/meth, always refilling the tank and most importantly loosing the injection and blowing your motor. The way you have to tune on the meth is cram as much timing into the engine its past the point of severe detonation, then sprinkle some water/meth on top to tame the detonation down. If/when the water/meth fails, your motor is toast...

    Do a search on some other sites and you'll see e85 is really awesome stuff. I've seen first hand cars go from c16 to e85 and pick up power.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by gt347mustang View Post
    Do yourself a favor and spend a few extra bucks on a good e85 setup. You will regret going with water/meth if you have the ability to run e85 full time. The risk of letting a tank of e85 sit in your car over the winter is nothing compared to the headache of tuning water/meth, always refilling the tank and most importantly loosing the injection and blowing your motor. The way you have to tune on the meth is cram as much timing into the engine its past the point of severe detonation, then sprinkle some water/meth on top to tame the detonation down. If/when the water/meth fails, your motor is toast...

    Do a search on some other sites and you'll see e85 is really awesome stuff. I've seen first hand cars go from c16 to e85 and pick up power.
    my tuner also wants me to run e85. My 2.9 whipple at 22lbs would love some e85. Im also planning on throwing 2-3 more lbs of boost. I spoke to Justin over at fore because he was going to build me a fuel system to handle over 1000rwhp. we spoke about e85 for my car and this is what he had to say.......

    "If this is a weekend car, I advise against E85. E85 requires a lot of extra attention that has a value to most people...and for weekend car, that value often offsets the savings at the pump. Don't get me wrong...E85 works well...but I think it is best for cars that are driven daily. Frequent use/consumption/fill-ups keeps the E85 fresh, lowers fuel maintenance, plus allows you to take advantage of the savings at the pumps.


    E85 on a weekend car may require filter changes every 2-4 weeks...sometimes 3-5 months...it depends on a lot of things. Even worse, If it sits too long, often it requires a complete fuel transfusion. Gasoline is quite simple by comparison: use the cheaper pumps, don't worry about the car sitting while you travel, and change your filter once a year...lol. (I think there is some value in that...even if you're running C16)


    If I were you, run the 50-1000s, and enjoy the car...you've got headroom to go quite a big bigger...even add nitrous."

  4. #18
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    Kid I say run E-85 and don't look Back, I'm still going to hand U your ASS back on the weekend, miss U guys out in LI.

    Chris S.

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  6. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by gt347mustang View Post
    Your information is just wrong. E85 is typically 85% ethanol, yes sometimes it varies a little bit, but overall the average is 85%. Who are you talking to that's saying the pump e85 isn't true e85?...
    Fuel grade ethanol can be anywhere from 50% to 70% ethanol in a volumetric mixture and can be labelled as and sold as E85. Aside from the troubling percentage range the word that should jump out at you is volumetric. Our engine's PCM bases all fueling calculations on gravimetric measures not volumetric measures — even wildly varying measures like 50 to 70 percent.

    Now I am certain the statement of ethanol content as 50 to 70 percent will fit into the hard to believe category for most folks. The best thing I can suggest is to look at the Department of Energy's publication "Handbook for Handling, Storing, and Dispensing E85 and Other Ethanol-Gasoline Blends". You can find a copy at => http://www.afdc.energy.gov/uploads/p...l_handbook.pdf.

    When you are done reading the DOE's labeling and content guidelines you might also want to watch this Youtube video =>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DZhLjwsWVY It was discovered by Blk_03 and is perhaps the best evidence of why you can not trust pump grade E85 whose content is measured by instrumentation. It also explains why your commercial ethanol percentage meter is lying to you.



    Quote Originally Posted by gt347mustang View Post
    Do yourself a favor and spend a few extra bucks on a good e85 setup. You will regret going with water/meth if you have the ability to run e85 full time. The risk of letting a tank of e85 sit in your car over the winter is nothing compared to the headache of tuning water/meth, always refilling the tank and most importantly loosing the injection and blowing your motor. The way you have to tune on the meth is cram as much timing into the engine its past the point of severe detonation, then sprinkle some water/meth on top to tame the detonation down. If/when the water/meth fails, your motor is toast...

    Do a search on some other sites and you'll see e85 is really awesome stuff. I've seen first hand cars go from c16 to e85 and pick up power.

    If you are going to run E85 on a supercharged engine (and realize its benefits) you will need significant fuel system upgrades and a vigilant eye on the actual percentage you have this tankful. Failure to do so could cost you fuel system components and engine parts in a high output blown engine, naturally aspirated is another story.

    Ethanol leaches water out of the air because it is very hydroscopic. The most cost effective way to find out what you have actually just purchased as fuel is with a hydrometer and a chart like this one, click here => Ethanol Sp Gr vs Temp. Once you have the number then you need to figure out how much water vapor the ethanol has already leached out of the air and is carrying in suspension.

    Ethanol is anything but a pump and play performance fuel.



    Quote Originally Posted by stangfreak View Post
    my tuner also wants me to run e85. My 2.9 whipple at 22lbs would love some e85. Im also planning on throwing 2-3 more lbs of boost. I spoke to Justin over at fore because he was going to build me a fuel system to handle over 1000rwhp. we spoke about e85 for my car and this is what he had to say.......

    "If this is a weekend car, I advise against E85. E85 requires a lot of extra attention that has a value to most people...and for weekend car, that value often offsets the savings at the pump. Don't get me wrong...E85 works well...but I think it is best for cars that are driven daily. Frequent use/consumption/fill-ups keeps the E85 fresh, lowers fuel maintenance, plus allows you to take advantage of the savings at the pumps.

    E85 on a weekend car may require filter changes every 2-4 weeks...sometimes 3-5 months...it depends on a lot of things. Even worse, If it sits too long, often it requires a complete fuel transfusion. Gasoline is quite simple by comparison: use the cheaper pumps, don't worry about the car sitting while you travel, and change your filter once a year...lol. (I think there is some value in that...even if you're running C16)

    If I were you, run the 50-1000s, and enjoy the car...you've got headroom to go quite a big bigger...even add nitrous."

    Justin is telling you the truth. Add to his commentary the hydroscopic nature or alcohols and ethanol in particular and you have a potential to not just dissolve but also oxidize components internal to your fuel system if you allow the car to sit without being driven. The oxidization can be overcome by upgrading the fuel system to ethanol compatible components that use stainless internal parts instead of steel. If you choose not to upgrade your fuel system components then it is best to flush out your fuel system with gasoline before parking the car.

    Ethanol will work you and your engine differently and harder.


    Ed
    Last edited by eschaider; 08-17-2014 at 11:46 AM. Reason: Spelling & Grammar

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    ed, I heard that c85 from vp, they add some additives to the fuel to stop the corrosion of the e85.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SSChris NY View Post
    Kid I say run E-85 and don't look Back, I'm still going to hand U your ASS back on the weekend, miss U guys out in LI.

    Chris S.
    Thanks for the kind words chris. btw my names alex.

  8. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by stangfreak View Post
    ed, I heard that c85 from vp, they add some additives to the fuel to stop the corrosion of the e85. ...
    They may Alex. It is certainly worth a phone call to them to find out more.

    The challenge with the alcohol fuels (ethanol or methanol) is that their solvent like attributes strip metallic parts of any protective oils leaving the native metal exposed. Normally this is not a problem with a non-hydroscopic petroleum based fuel like gasoline. When we use the alcohol fuels (ethanol or methanol) they bring two additional issues to the table.

    The first is they are hydroscopic which is to say they have a strong predisposition to leach water out of the ambient air and the second is their propensity to attack certain metallic and non-metallic parts. Usually the victims in the soft parts category are gaskets and gasket like materials including o-rings and fuel pump innards if they are not made from alcohol resistant materials. The second is the the solvent like behavior that strips metallic components down to their base metal. In the case of a steel component the water the alcohol has leached out of the air begins to rust these components. The easy fix is stainless steel instead of non stainless. Most injectors today will say if they are alcohol safe — other parts not so much.

    Along with this rusting of steels phenomena is the way either alcohol attacks aluminum. The greater the alcohol content the worse the problem. Additionally, if you use methanol instead of ethanol, the methanol is increasingly aggressive towards the aluminum parts compared to ethanol which is already bad. The best fuel system defense for either of these alcohol fuels is to drain and dry the fuel system with compressed air before putting the vehicle away. With mechanical style race injection systems this is pretty easy to do with an air hose. With electronic injection it is a PITA. For electronic systems it is easier to drain the tank put in some gas and flush the system by running the engine for a bit.

    Either of the alcohols are a great fuel from a power and anti-knock perspective. From a fuel system component maintenance and longevity perspective we need to raise the maintenance bar a notch to properly protect our fuel systems.


    Ed

  9. #22
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    ed, that was a great post. very informative with this type of fuel. Justin at fore also mentioned some of the other stuff you said but I cant find that email. I will call vp just to see what they have to say about there additive in there c85. right now im happy with the vp100. If anything, I can always use ms109. vp told me that people are running 30lbs of boost and cars spraying a 300 shot are using ms109 with no problem at all.

  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by stangfreak View Post
    ed, I heard that c85 from vp, they add some additives to the fuel to stop the corrosion of the e85.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Thanks for the kind words chris. btw my names alex.
    Alex no offence intended, I know your name, Just busting your chops Bro
    Last edited by SSChris NY; 08-19-2014 at 10:31 AM. Reason: gramar

  11. #24

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    run some VP M2 upper engine lube and you will be fine, we put about 100ml in every tank. Yes, ethanol is hydroscopic but it doesn't draw enough water out of the atmosphere to cause issue. If the drum is sealed,don't worry too much. Some even raise the drum off the floor and sit it on something. We have thrown a cup of water into a 5gal drum of E85, went out and raced. Made no difference. Corrosion shouldn't occur we run an alloy fuel reg, which is not anodised, same reg for 5 years without issue. The VP M2 lube really works, have seen hard brittle hoses that dried out with E85 come back soft again. If leaving to sit for over 3 month flush the injectors with gasoline or get them cleaned, but if ur driving it every week or 2 don't worry at all.

    The E85 can vary thru seasons, always check the ethanol content and try and tune with a high content ethanol, that way if the ethanol content is lower you will always have plenty fuel and it won't lean out. You don't want to tune on say E70 then put E90 in it will be lean, though ethanol is a tough fuel, we have run over 1/4 as lean as 13.8 AFR, ran a couple tenths n mph slower only lol
    Last edited by prasac; 10-10-2014 at 05:54 PM.

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