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Mod motor 170° thermostat

12K views 39 replies 12 participants last post by  jrgoffin 
#1 · (Edited)
Posting this with permission from Ed as a potential GB.

I have started making 170-degree thermostats that are quite affordable and doing so as a side venture for the benefit of other enthusiasts. These are all built with U.S. made parts by Stant, and I will sell them for $35 shipped (lower 48 states), including the O-ring. I have one in my own Cobra and it works great. Figured I would see about doing more for guys here...

A portion of the proceeds goes to St. Judes.

I can be reached here via PM, but e-mail is the best way to catch me: joe@termi-stat.com.

Website: www.termi-stat.com

Also some info on my own site:

Cooling

 
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#4 ·
This really is a group buy of limited quantity guys. From what Joe has shared with me about the T-Stat it is a very nice piece that came to be as the result of that wonderful mother of invention — need. Best of all the monies from it go to a great charity.


Ed
 
#7 · (Edited)
So basically this guy is copying the exact product we've been making for 7 years already... and it looks like he intends to eventually copy our whole product line.

Yes, I could sell them cheaper if I sold thermostats directly but I have to use distributors to sell enough to make a living. I think it's really great he's donating everything to charity but I can't help but feel it's at the expense of taking food off my plate.
 
#12 ·
All the information I have came from Stant, friends at Ford, and some helpful guys at a local NAPA. I have never had one of your products in my hands, nor have I copied or referenced any of your work. The notion of putting lower-temp thermostats in cars is not new, and being a tinkerer, I figured I would take a stab at marrying two of them to see if I could find a fit. In all honesty, I realized that a MotoRad piece that has been on one of my shelves for two+ years was not going to be useful, so I finally decided to dabble with this in my own shop. Like so many other parts for cars like Mustangs, there are a lot of items out there that can be had from many different vendors, and this is no different.

In the 25+ years I've been working on cars, I've learned a few things as well, especially that thermostats are not complicated. After all, I'm not building a space shuttle in my garage - this is just something I played with that ultimately turned out just fine. I built one for my own Cobra, made a few more that I gave to friends, and when I realized the simplicity, I figured I could do some favors for guys that might save them a few dollars. I am aware that you had gotten involved in this several years ago and advertise on another forum, and I'm sure it is appreciated.

I'm pretty sure some of those parts you mentioned are/were actually the same stuff marketed under a different brand early on, some have split off and done their own thing. Most of these deals are done behind the scenes and everybody learns to play nice usually.

You're right... there is certainly nothing wrong with building a few parts and making some deals for people on the forums, in fact if anyone wants to learn how to build their own 170* thermostat I'd be happy to show them how, but through PMs of course. Clearly he has bigger plans than that though, putting up a website and expanding the line, basically copying our entire business model even down to similar pictures and selling points.

I found another post where he states the retail cost of our thermostats is ludicrous and that I do take offense to. Funny thing is he is selling them for right around the same cost we do, except we only sell wholesale.

I think if you had spent several years of your life building a business as I have you would have a different perspective. Certainly if anyone wants to take a chance and save a few bucks I can't blame them, it could be a very comparable product. But keep in mind we've been doing this for a long time and have learned a few things along the way.
My knowledge of your business plan or the relationship you have with your suppliers is nonexistent, and I have no intention of intruding. As I stated, if I kick a few of these out the door, what very little I gain from it will go to a good cause (I'm actually thinking St. Jude's, to make it specific). I highly doubt that spending a couple hours a month tinkering is going to upset the market in any way whatsoever with these. If I chose to advertise and come up with a few different versions, that is the free market, and again, something I came up with by doing my own research.

As for your "selling points", well, it is a thermostat, so what better way to illustrate how one performs against another by putting them in the medium they are meant for. I didn't come up with that one on my own, but it's just common sense. Hard data works every time, and as for pictures of a thermostat, a great way to advertise a thermostat is to just take a picture of said thermostat. That isn't really noteworthy, but for the sake of guys that have snatched some of these up, I felt the personal touch, rather than cobbling photo's from Stant, was a nice idea. Also, if my choice of the word "ludicrous" was offensive, then I'll gladly apologize and will be happy to make it a bit more palatable.
 
#8 ·
If you look into after market car parts there are so many of the exact same parts produced by several manufactures that you scratch your head wondering who made what first and how does this happen time and time again. LFP,Metco,Afco,Billetflow,Division X and Fore all seem to swim in the same pond with near identical product and nobody has posted on SVTP under the Lethal banner Hey guys your fuel hat and rails look just like my own and you stealing food from my plate. If jrgoffin is doing nothing wrong by building a few ford stats at a lower price I would suggest leave it alone and let your vast distribution do it's job and let a few guys get a great deal :) If there is something proprietary about cobbling a few thermostats together then let the OP know and I'm sure he will stop otherwise like Metco and LFP and all the others just learn to live with competition as it's good for everyone.
 
#9 ·
I'm pretty sure some of those parts you mentioned are/were actually the same stuff marketed under a different brand early on, some have split off and done their own thing. Most of these deals are done behind the scenes and everybody learns to play nice usually.

You're right... there is certainly nothing wrong with building a few parts and making some deals for people on the forums, in fact if anyone wants to learn how to build their own 170* thermostat I'd be happy to show them how, but through PMs of course. Clearly he has bigger plans than that though, putting up a website and expanding the line, basically copying our entire business model even down to similar pictures and selling points.

I found another post where he states the retail cost of our thermostats is ludicrous and that I do take offense to. Funny thing is he is selling them for right around the same cost we do, except we only sell wholesale.

I think if you had spent several years of your life building a business as I have you would have a different perspective. Certainly if anyone wants to take a chance and save a few bucks I can't blame them, it could be a very comparable product. But keep in mind we've been doing this for a long time and have learned a few things along the way.
 
#11 ·
Why not just sell them direct for, say, $45 and use the extra money to pay someone to handle the orders and shipping? You don't need to be distributed to a online part house IMO. The good parts are found via word of mouth with these types of cars.
 
#14 ·
The last batch of these has been sold out through other sources, but still willing to build up more for guys here. Since forum traffic appears to be a bit slow and I have yet to still put a separate site up, they've still been moving. In any case, it's still easy enough to do a group buy here!
 
#15 · (Edited)
The lineup of the rest, just as an FYI:

The "T-1" for the bulk of DOHC V-8's and many V-6's including the ecoBoost 3.5L:



Can also do them for the 2011-2015 5.0 Coyote engines, the 2015-2016 GT350, and F-150. The "T-2":



And then one for many of the other SOHC V-8's, "T-3":

 
#16 · (Edited)
Can you provide evidence of this though?

Because I can't help but stick up for JMProductions, since he did all the R&D on this t-stat and now of course...many want to go the Steeda route or (Steela) route...and while that is acceptable since it follows the thinking of the 'build the better mouse trap' theory...I personally can't help but be bothered by someone trying to capatilize on Joel's work.


You can argue night & day how it goes for a 'good cause' but years ago...you simply weren't there when he brought a great t-stat to market.

Its actually unfortuante that people use the 'good cause' argument to steal and benefit from the R&D of others. My opinion isn't a popualar one, but f*ck your, motives are quite questionable, considering JMProductions did a pretty damn good favor to the Terminator community.

His t-stat is prooably the best cooling mod I've ever done at this point. Many would repeat the same, given the chance.

Given the fear mongers that exists with that driver side head, I think his t-stat is the cheapeast cooling mod out there, that should be shown a little more respect.



I'm with Joel.

I think its bull**** that people use their questionable 'causes' as justification to capitalize off the hard work of others. Its not right. No matter what emotional heart strings you try and pull, to justify what you're doing.
 
#17 ·
Can you provide evidence of this though?

Because I can't help but stick up for JMProductions, since he did all the R&D on this t-stat and now of course...many want to go the Steeda route or (Steela) route...and while that is acceptable since it follows the thinking of the 'build the better mouse trap' theory...I personally can't help but be bothered by someone trying to capatilize on Joel's work.

You can argue night & day how it goes for a 'good cause' but years ago...you simply weren't there when he brought a great t-stat to market.

Its actually unfortuante that people use the 'good cause' argument to steal and benefit from the R&D of others. My opinion isn't a popualar one, but f*ck your, motives are quite questionable, considering JMProductions did a pretty damn good favor to the Terminator community.

His t-stat is prooably the best cooling mod I've ever done at this point. Many would repeat the same, given the chance.

Given the fear mongers that exists with that driver side head, I think his t-stat is the cheapeast cooling mod out there, that should be shown a little more respect.

I'm with Joel.

I think its bull**** that people use their questionable 'causes' as justification to capitalize off the hard work of others. Its not right. No matter what emotional heart strings you try and pull, to justify what you're doing.
You sure like to play the devil's advocate.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing the community a service and providing a great part for a cheaper price. Period. I'm sure many have wanted the Reische thermostat, like myself, but feel raped by having to pay that much for a thermostat. By your logic, the first to bring a great product to the market should rule the market. Meaning we should only have one source for each after-market part we purchase?

Come on. A cheaper part by a guy whose posts are nothing but constructive, and who maintains a site with a wealth of information for us die-hard Terminator owners is positive all the way around. The fact that some of the proceeds go to charity is just a plus, in my opinion. It's guys like him and James @ Cobra Engineering who allow us to keep the passion behind our hobby. In my opinion, this has nothing to do with Reische and everything to do with a guy who is just feeding his passion (making parts) and sharing it with the community.

Joe - don't get caught up in the mudslinging.

- Brandon
 
#22 ·
It'd be nice wouldn't it? Mexico is way more likely though. Factory built 170deg t-stats for $8, yay! Still way more than the $3 I paid for a Stant in my 92 Ranger way back when LOL.
 
#23 ·
For all who cry fowl blow it out your ass. If there were a bigger market for these it would have been duplicated long ago. All that's done here modify a Stant stat so the correct housing holds a 170 motor. How many guys knocked off the ported eaton? If there was a huge market I'd be banging these out myself as its not exactly splitting atoms with kitchen utensils.
 
#26 ·
This forum is about tech and tech topics. We also support members who want to provide or can provide group buys to help other members. The personal attacks and keyboard commando stuff where we go about attacking or assassinating someone's character or motives is better suited to other sites not this one. For those who prefer the keyboard commando approach you are flirting with infractions. If you manage to successfully accumulate an adequate number you will have succeeded in banning yourself from the site, sort of like self terminating in one of Arnold's Terminator movies - chose your posting practices wisely.

Ed

BTW I was not aiming at you Taz
 
#40 · (Edited)
The personal attacks really aren't called for and are a sign of a small mind. Just too bad everyone else has to put up with someone that keeps making such an idiot out of himself. I'd say it's entertaining, but that is really a stretch. No wonder even SVTP banned him.
 
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