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Aluminator Gibtec Build

448K views 789 replies 65 participants last post by  eschaider 
#1 · (Edited)
Thread update: Table of Contents

Since this thread has gotten long and I've received many PM's on Facebook and e-mail with questions about the build, I figured a ToC would help anyone searching. It is based on 15 posts per page, and is also broken down in groups and now with hyperlinked post numbers. In the event some quick info is needed, this should make it easy! Also, all hyperlinks, other than the obvious cut-and-paste links are bold so they stand out and are easier to recognize, especially when not logged in.

p.1 (Posts 1-15): Short block, pistons, heads, '98 Cobra cams, bearings, ARP parts list, oil pump & windage tray
p.2 (Posts 16-30): Oil cooler gasket, block heater, head gaskets, more on ARP
p.3 (Posts 31-45): Timing components, cam bolts
p.4 (Posts 46-60): Timing cover bolt modification (aluminum block), upgraded secondary tensioner
p.5 (Posts 61-75): Cam degree tools
p.6 (Posts 76-90): Misc. chat
p.7 (Posts 91-105): Oil slinger discussion
p.8 (Posts 106-120): Oil slinger cont., rear main seal
p.9 (Posts 121-135): Rear main seal cont.
p.10 (Posts 136-150): King bearing tech from Ed
p.11 (Posts 151-165): King bearing tech cont., GT-500 rockers, timing cover hole (Cont. from P.4)
p.12 (Posts 166-180): Degreeing the cams, '98 specs
p.13 (Posts 181-195): Degreeing the cams cont., timing cover, cam follower install
p.14 (Posts 196-210): Primary tensioner ratchet modification
p.15 (Posts 211-225): Primary tensioner spacer modification (update to P.14)
p.16 (Posts 226-240): Primary tensioner spacer modification cont.
p.17 (Posts 241-255): Valve cover mock-up, exhaust manifolds
p.18 (Posts 256-270): Tensioner spacer info from Ed, ready to pull "old" engine
p.19 (Posts 271-285): Oil cooler, PCV fitting for aluminum block
p.20 (Posts 286-300): Quick Seat info
p.21 (Posts 301-315): Old vs. new piston trivia, valve covers
p.22 (Posts 316-330): New engine installed, Centerforce clutch
p.23 (Posts 331-345): Crank damper, accessory belts
p.24 (Posts 346-360): Transmission install, accessory belts cont.
p.25 (Posts 361-375): Power steering pump and A/C install notes
p.26 (Posts 376-390): First start!
p.27 (Posts 391-405): First start cont.
p.28 (Posts 406-420): Notes on PTW clearances from Ed, Vampire introduction
p.29 (Posts 421-435): Rod clearance notes from Ed, block bore information
p.30 (Posts 436-450): OE piston trivia
p.31 (Posts 451-465): Misc. oil pan discussion
p.32 (Posts 466-480): Head stud info & torque notes from Ed, wideband install, PCM harness info
p.33 (Posts 481-495): PCM connector notes
p.34 (Posts 496-510): Gauge install, oil pressure sensor, billet oil filter
p.35 (Posts 511-525): Oil and pump discussion
p.36 (Posts 526-540): Head stud re-torque
p.37 (Posts 541-555): Head stud re-torque cont.
p.38 (Posts 556-570): Head stud re-torque cont.
p.39 (Posts 571-585): Project cost sheet, Vampire install completion
p.40 (Posts 586-600): Vampire adjustments
p.41 (Posts 601-615): AFR and piston notes from Ed, Vampire gauge addition
p.42 (Posts 616-630): More from Ed on detonation, new CAI
p.43 (Posts 631-645): Vampire gauge video clip
p.44 (Posts 646-660): Dyno tune results and video clip (11/1/16), new oil separator
p.45 (Posts 661-675): Switch to Mobil1 0W-40 & UOA, piston wrist pin discussion, updated alternator
p.46 (Posts 676-690): General alternator discussion
p.47 (Posts 691-705): Bolt torque & #5 thrust bearing comments, upgraded tensioner, Whipple 2.3 on the way
p.48 (Posts 706-720): Whipple talk, new intercooler, more fuel system chat
p.49 (Posts 721-735): More on the Vampire, 4.6 vs Coyote discussion, intercooler pictures
p.50 (Posts 736-750): Eaton removed, intercooler comparison pics, Whipple installed, intercooler tech
p.51 (Posts 751-765): Some e85 talk, first drive with the Whipple and new intercooler
p.52 (Posts 766-780): Visit to Gibtec, some info on Prolong
p.53 (Posts 781-): More on Prolong, new Explorer ST to go with the Cobra.

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This project had been in the works for a while: started a few years back when I picked up a brand new set of FRPP heads and a like-new Aluminator block for less than $2,000, which sat in storage until now. The smart thing to do would have been to sell the goods and make some money, especially since my OEM engine only has 21,000 miles on it, but who can resist tinkering. Adding to that, when you can make something leaps and bounds better, might as well enjoy the fruits of your labor while you have the chance.

I'll actually begin with a shot of where I am as of the date I decided to start this thread (fall of '15), but will go backwards to the early stages and update it little by little with as much tech as I can. Since there are not a lot of Aluminator builds out there, hopefully this will be helpful to anyone considering this route. Here's the long block:

Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive design Automotive exterior Engineering


Before moving on, I have to pass on a world of thanks to Ed for designing the finest 2618 aluminum piston out there through Gibtec of Denver, and for his willingness to help out so many on this forum with the encyclopedia of knowledge he possesses!! For those that haven't seen the Gibtec "Custom ModMotor Piston" thread, here are my specs (0.002" oversize) and pics added from it:



Gas Circle Plastic Electric blue Liquid


Camera lens Camera Camera accessory Digital camera Lens


Helmet Sports equipment Automotive lighting Sports gear Audio equipment


I also intended to add an Aluminator build page up on my own site, but for now it just serves as a link back here since this got long. For anyone curious about the Aluminator block, this Castings page has a bunch of information on what makes it such a great choice! Stay tuned, more to come...
 
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#367 · (Edited)
A couple more notes that I forgot to add from Post #353 on the previous page...

Nothing real major here, but some trivial items, first on the air conditioning compressor. For anyone going to an aluminum block, the three bolts that hold the compressor to the block are actually shorter than those for the iron block. In the diagram below, the iron-block 113.5mm bolts are shown. For the aluminum blocks, these bolts are 110mm. Not a huge difference, but if you keep the OE bolts, you have to add washers under the bolt head to keep them from bottoming out. I was fortunate to get the original bolts with my Nemak block, so that saved me from chasing them down or digging up washers.

Motor vehicle Font Auto part Parallel Engineering


This next point - real minor - about the power steering pump, and of course assuming it (along with the a/c compressor) is not disconnected. It will become obvious for anyone at this point, but when unbolting the pump, the two lower bolts (3 &4) will not come out since the hose connectors will be in the way. Not a big deal since they won't fall out, but while the pump is left hanging, those lower bolts will be floating in the pump body. It's a bit of a pain to tighten them, but it still beats disconnecting the system and having to bleed it later!

Font Engineering Auto part Parallel Circle


I have been overly busy lately, and am out of town until Monday evening, but planning on priming the oil pump and turning the key for the first time on Tuesday. After that, it will be time to install the Vampire with more photos to come. Hopefully will get a video for the initial start-up, so back in a few days!
 
#369 ·
Great thread, I will reference it often, thank you Joe! Thank you Ed for sharing your knowledge with the world.

An alternate method of heating up the motor/heads to simulate a thermal cycle that I learned of many years back, and have used, is to use a couple of heat guns or hair dryers. Flow the air over the heads, through the intake and exhaust ports, water ports, oil ports etc. You need to monitor temps with a temperature gun at various places. It takes some time and effort to move the heat guns around to get it thoroughly heated and deeply heated enough but it works. I usually let this process go for a hour per head, then let it cool overnight before the re-torquing. Watch out for overheating rubber/plastic items especially valve stem seals etc. You can also put a space heater next to the assembly to aid if the weather is cold.

I will also strongly agree that the J&S Safeguard is a priceless piece of kit. I've used them on several engines over the years with great results. John is a super guy and great engineer. I remember having him on the phone as I used a scope to look at wave forms on Nissan VQ coil trigger signals. He was very patient with me and we made it work. I highly recommend this for any boosted application!
 
#377 ·
Great thread, I will reference it often, thank you Joe! Thank you Ed for sharing your knowledge with the world.

I will also strongly agree that the J&S Safeguard is a priceless piece of kit. I've used them on several engines over the years with great results. John is a super guy and great engineer. I remember having him on the phone as I used a scope to look at wave forms on Nissan VQ coil trigger signals. He was very patient with me and we made it work. I highly recommend this for any boosted application!
Glad you like the thread, Matt. Ed is the real brains behind a lot of this, I just happen to be decent enough with tools to bring it all together!

You are also right about the Vampire - John has a fantastic product that has been around for a lot longer than I realized. Hopefully I won't have to bug him for anything, but I'm looking forward to getting it all wired in. I definitely is money well spent.

Joe.Ed, Do you line hone the mains with the ARP main hardware? I've read that with the ARP Main hardware this is a needed because the extra clamping force deforms the main bores? Or could you under torque the hardware to avoid deforming the mains? This way you gain the strength of the fastener, but avoid the deformation?
I can't be 100% sure, but I think the guys that did the machine work on my block used the ARP studs to check the mains. Their shop isn't too far away, so I can always stop by at some point to verify this. Hoping that I fire the engine up for the first time tomorrow, I'm sure they'll be glad if I drop in to report that it was a success. The fingers are crossed for sure.
 
#370 ·
Joe.Ed, Do you line hone the mains with the ARP main hardware? I've read that with the ARP Main hardware this is a needed because the extra clamping force deforms the main bores? Or could you under torque the hardware to avoid deforming the mains? This way you gain the strength of the fastener, but avoid the deformation?
 
#372 ·
I have heard of this but never experienced it, guys. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, it just has not happened to me. Irrespective of whether you change the main cap fasteners or not you always want to check the main bores for size and on unknown blocks the alignment also. The easiest no gauges check for undersize or misalignment is simply put a set of bearings and a crank in the block, torque down the mains and see if it spins freely. Crabs or tight spots mean massage is necessary. Even if the crank spins freely you should still measure the main bores to be sure they are not oversize.


Ed
 
#373 ·
Just a quick note on rod bearings...

I found out the hard way tonight while anxiously assembling my own engine that I had overlooked the smaller rod bearing journal on my Kellogg stroker crank. Therefore, the King Bearings I had ordered will not work. Here's the details:

I had ordered the King CR868SI set, but those are for factory-sized crank rod journals.

My Kellogg 3.800" stroker crank has smaller 2.000" rod journals. King does not make a "SI" series rod bearing in that size. The correct King rod bearing is the CR803XPN.

These bearings are for a 2.000" crank rod journal with a 2.1247" to 2.1252" rod bore. The bearing thickness is .0622" with a bearing width of .7874".

My Manley Pro-Billet rods measured 2.127" across the bore... If I did the math correct this leaves an oil clearance of .0026"... Which is dead on the spec in the Hyland book of .0020 to .0030.

My Manley rods have a bearing surface width of .840" so these bearings are just a hair "narrow" by .0263" on each side, but it was the closest I could find without going out of the King brand. They are the same width as the Clevite (CB745H) by the way.

For those that are dead set on the "SI" series of King Bearings there is a CR811SI which will fit a crank with a 2.000" journal, but the specs are a little too loose for my taste. The wall thickness opens up to .0619" and the width is even narrower at .7402".

For a stock replacement bearing for the 2.000" crank journal King also makes the CR4423AM. These are not for high performance applications though.
 
#382 · (Edited)
Just a quick note on rod bearings...

I found out the hard way tonight while anxiously assembling my own engine that I had overlooked the smaller rod bearing journal on my Kellogg stroker crank. Therefore, the King Bearings I had ordered will not work. Here's the details:

I had ordered the King CR868SI set, but those are for factory-sized crank rod journals.

My Kellogg 3.800" stroker crank has smaller 2.000" rod journals. King does not make a "SI" series rod bearing in that size. The correct King rod bearing is the CR803XPN.

These bearings are for a 2.000" crank rod journal with a 2.1247" to 2.1252" rod bore. The bearing thickness is .0622" with a bearing width of .7874".

My Manley Pro-Billet rods measured 2.127" across the bore... If I did the math correct this leaves an oil clearance of .0026"... Which is dead on the spec in the Hyland book of .0020 to .0030.

My Manley rods have a bearing surface width of .840" so these bearings are just a hair "narrow" by .0263" on each side, but it was the closest I could find without going out of the King brand. They are the same width as the Clevite (CB745H) by the way.

For those that are dead set on the "SI" series of King Bearings there is a CR811SI which will fit a crank with a 2.000" journal, but the specs are a little too loose for my taste. The wall thickness opens up to .0619" and the width is even narrower at .7402".

For a stock replacement bearing for the 2.000" crank journal King also makes the CR4423AM. These are not for high performance applications though.
You are right on all counts Mike. For some reason I thought you had a stock stroke crank. I should have asked you which crank you were using. The AM class material is what King used before the SI inserts were available. It is a very good insert material in its own right and will perform quite close to the SI material. The 0.0263" skinnier insert will not pose a problem for you if you choose to use it. If your crank had full radius journals and you would have had to trim the bearings to clear the radii that dimension is essentially where you would have ended up.

The XPN bearings are the harder higher load bearings and will work but cost you some additional money. The CR4423AM bearing will perform quite similarly to an SI bearing and save you some money you can spend elsewhere. There is also a CR 803AM (maybe SI by now) that will also work quite nicely. If you use this bearing it is 0.841" wide so a very light "haircut" on emory paper will be in order before final assembly.

Ed
 
#386 ·
IT'S ALIVE!!!

Fired it up for the first time today as planned and all went well. I primed the oil pump for about 10 seconds or so by keeping the accelerator pedal to the floor (the injectors won't fire), took about ten more minutes to get some juice back in the battery, then it fired right up. Talk about a huge relief - I sure would not have wanted to come this far only to hit a wall.

Anyway, I did make a video clip, but wasn't thinking and had my camera on a tripod right up near the monster K&N filter. The sound quality didn't come out anywhere near where I wanted, especially since the volume of air flowing in to the filter really drowns out anything else. With any luck, I can try again tomorrow and get a better clip that I'll be able to post. I let it idle for about 25 minutes and the coolant temp never came up above 180° (yes, my custom 170° thermostats work great), then decided to shut it down.

Now for the guys that have these Gibtec mod motor pistons (and this may be the first start-up of one) you will hear the piston slap. It goes away as the engine warms up, but I'm mentioning it again as a public service message. Ed did mention this and I was aware, but the reality sets in when you turn the key. I also made sure to give Ed a shout while the engine was running, so I at least have a witness that all has turned out well:) Thanks again, Ed - these pistons are going to be real winners!!!!

For now, here's a picture of the finished work. Just have to get going on a new tune and wait out the next few months until I can drive, but today was a big relief for sure.

Car Vehicle Hood Automotive design Motor vehicle
 
#390 ·
IT'S ALIVE!!!

Fired it up for the first time today as planned and all went well. I primed the oil pump for about 10 seconds or so by keeping the accelerator pedal to the floor (the injectors won't fire), took about ten more minutes to get some juice back in the battery, then it fired right up. Talk about a huge relief - I sure would not have wanted to come this far only to hit a wall.

Anyway, I did make a video clip, but wasn't thinking and had my camera on a tripod right up near the monster K&N filter. The sound quality didn't come out anywhere near where I wanted, especially since the volume of air flowing in to the filter really drowns out anything else. With any luck, I can try again tomorrow and get a better clip that I'll be able to post. I let it idle for about 25 minutes and the coolant temp never came up above 180° (yes, my custom 170° thermostats work great), then decided to shut it down.

Now for the guys that have these Gibtec mod motor pistons (and this may be the first start-up of one) you will hear the piston slap. It goes away as the engine warms up, but I'm mentioning it again as a public service message. Ed did mention this and I was aware, but the reality sets in when you turn the key. I also made sure to give Ed a shout while the engine was running, so I at least have a witness that all has turned out well:) Thanks again, Ed - these pistons are going to be real winners!!!!

For now, here's a picture of the finished work. Just have to get going on a new tune and wait out the next few months until I can drive, but today was a big relief for sure.

View attachment 143217
Congratulations Joe!

Long road and sometimes hard fought battles. Your engine sounded great, even over the phone. You did an excellent job and did it all by yourself - even more impressive. It is always nice to have an extra set of hands to help and the job is always more challenging when you don't. For the vast majority of this effort it was a one man show and a very well done show. All I provided was the occasional sounding board to bounce ideas off.

Very impressive build and very impressive results. As the already impressive 32000+ views of this thread (at this time) demonstrate, your effort and your documentation of the build process was both interesting and very helpful to a large number of other guys that were either involved in their own build or preparing for it.

Great job and even better documentation. Thank you for the extra effort you took to share it with all of us.

Ed
 
#393 ·
I'll try to snag another video clip later today. The slap isn't all that bad, and since these engines are "tappy" anyway, it almost blends in. It does diminish as the engine warms up, and I imagine it was more noticeable since this was the very first engine start. Ed had also mentioned that it will become a bit less distinct as miles are put on the engine as well, but that is still going to be a few months down the road.
 
#395 · (Edited)
Adding an update of another engine start. To my amazement, this second start was absolutely smooth: any and all of the taps from the first time are absolutely gone (I guess all the oil is where it needs to be now). It may have helped that I had the block heater plugged in for a few hours and the coolant temp was already at about 100°, but it was just as smooth, if not smoother than the outgoing 22,000 mile engine. Very cool.

The downside is that when the computer goes in to Open-loop, the idle starts to hunt all over the place which makes it hard to keep it running (still never got up to more than about 180° though). Hopefully I can get a better start-up tune soon just so I'll be able to keep it idling and eventually get out for a test drive. I think I'll be contacting Jon Lund this time around, especially since he is a friend of a friend, and since I gather that Eric Brooks is just ridiculously busy with his new gig.

In any case, here is a 20 second video clip from my phone - should give everyone an idea as to how it sounds:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hvseeju5os9uuvj/20160127_151218.MP4?dl=0

Guess it will be time to plan out the process of getting those head studs re-torqued, but I definitely have some time on my hands now.
 
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