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Aluminator Gibtec Build

448K views 789 replies 65 participants last post by  eschaider 
#1 · (Edited)
Thread update: Table of Contents

Since this thread has gotten long and I've received many PM's on Facebook and e-mail with questions about the build, I figured a ToC would help anyone searching. It is based on 15 posts per page, and is also broken down in groups and now with hyperlinked post numbers. In the event some quick info is needed, this should make it easy! Also, all hyperlinks, other than the obvious cut-and-paste links are bold so they stand out and are easier to recognize, especially when not logged in.

p.1 (Posts 1-15): Short block, pistons, heads, '98 Cobra cams, bearings, ARP parts list, oil pump & windage tray
p.2 (Posts 16-30): Oil cooler gasket, block heater, head gaskets, more on ARP
p.3 (Posts 31-45): Timing components, cam bolts
p.4 (Posts 46-60): Timing cover bolt modification (aluminum block), upgraded secondary tensioner
p.5 (Posts 61-75): Cam degree tools
p.6 (Posts 76-90): Misc. chat
p.7 (Posts 91-105): Oil slinger discussion
p.8 (Posts 106-120): Oil slinger cont., rear main seal
p.9 (Posts 121-135): Rear main seal cont.
p.10 (Posts 136-150): King bearing tech from Ed
p.11 (Posts 151-165): King bearing tech cont., GT-500 rockers, timing cover hole (Cont. from P.4)
p.12 (Posts 166-180): Degreeing the cams, '98 specs
p.13 (Posts 181-195): Degreeing the cams cont., timing cover, cam follower install
p.14 (Posts 196-210): Primary tensioner ratchet modification
p.15 (Posts 211-225): Primary tensioner spacer modification (update to P.14)
p.16 (Posts 226-240): Primary tensioner spacer modification cont.
p.17 (Posts 241-255): Valve cover mock-up, exhaust manifolds
p.18 (Posts 256-270): Tensioner spacer info from Ed, ready to pull "old" engine
p.19 (Posts 271-285): Oil cooler, PCV fitting for aluminum block
p.20 (Posts 286-300): Quick Seat info
p.21 (Posts 301-315): Old vs. new piston trivia, valve covers
p.22 (Posts 316-330): New engine installed, Centerforce clutch
p.23 (Posts 331-345): Crank damper, accessory belts
p.24 (Posts 346-360): Transmission install, accessory belts cont.
p.25 (Posts 361-375): Power steering pump and A/C install notes
p.26 (Posts 376-390): First start!
p.27 (Posts 391-405): First start cont.
p.28 (Posts 406-420): Notes on PTW clearances from Ed, Vampire introduction
p.29 (Posts 421-435): Rod clearance notes from Ed, block bore information
p.30 (Posts 436-450): OE piston trivia
p.31 (Posts 451-465): Misc. oil pan discussion
p.32 (Posts 466-480): Head stud info & torque notes from Ed, wideband install, PCM harness info
p.33 (Posts 481-495): PCM connector notes
p.34 (Posts 496-510): Gauge install, oil pressure sensor, billet oil filter
p.35 (Posts 511-525): Oil and pump discussion
p.36 (Posts 526-540): Head stud re-torque
p.37 (Posts 541-555): Head stud re-torque cont.
p.38 (Posts 556-570): Head stud re-torque cont.
p.39 (Posts 571-585): Project cost sheet, Vampire install completion
p.40 (Posts 586-600): Vampire adjustments
p.41 (Posts 601-615): AFR and piston notes from Ed, Vampire gauge addition
p.42 (Posts 616-630): More from Ed on detonation, new CAI
p.43 (Posts 631-645): Vampire gauge video clip
p.44 (Posts 646-660): Dyno tune results and video clip (11/1/16), new oil separator
p.45 (Posts 661-675): Switch to Mobil1 0W-40 & UOA, piston wrist pin discussion, updated alternator
p.46 (Posts 676-690): General alternator discussion
p.47 (Posts 691-705): Bolt torque & #5 thrust bearing comments, upgraded tensioner, Whipple 2.3 on the way
p.48 (Posts 706-720): Whipple talk, new intercooler, more fuel system chat
p.49 (Posts 721-735): More on the Vampire, 4.6 vs Coyote discussion, intercooler pictures
p.50 (Posts 736-750): Eaton removed, intercooler comparison pics, Whipple installed, intercooler tech
p.51 (Posts 751-765): Some e85 talk, first drive with the Whipple and new intercooler
p.52 (Posts 766-780): Visit to Gibtec, some info on Prolong
p.53 (Posts 781-): More on Prolong, new Explorer ST to go with the Cobra.

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This project had been in the works for a while: started a few years back when I picked up a brand new set of FRPP heads and a like-new Aluminator block for less than $2,000, which sat in storage until now. The smart thing to do would have been to sell the goods and make some money, especially since my OEM engine only has 21,000 miles on it, but who can resist tinkering. Adding to that, when you can make something leaps and bounds better, might as well enjoy the fruits of your labor while you have the chance.

I'll actually begin with a shot of where I am as of the date I decided to start this thread (fall of '15), but will go backwards to the early stages and update it little by little with as much tech as I can. Since there are not a lot of Aluminator builds out there, hopefully this will be helpful to anyone considering this route. Here's the long block:

Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive design Automotive exterior Engineering


Before moving on, I have to pass on a world of thanks to Ed for designing the finest 2618 aluminum piston out there through Gibtec of Denver, and for his willingness to help out so many on this forum with the encyclopedia of knowledge he possesses!! For those that haven't seen the Gibtec "Custom ModMotor Piston" thread, here are my specs (0.002" oversize) and pics added from it:



Gas Circle Plastic Electric blue Liquid


Camera lens Camera Camera accessory Digital camera Lens


Helmet Sports equipment Automotive lighting Sports gear Audio equipment


I also intended to add an Aluminator build page up on my own site, but for now it just serves as a link back here since this got long. For anyone curious about the Aluminator block, this Castings page has a bunch of information on what makes it such a great choice! Stay tuned, more to come...
 
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#428 ·
Thanks for the diagram.

The .15mm to .45mm side clearance in the diagram converts to .006" to .018". But it is a little confusing because it shows that this is measured between the side of the rod and the crank counterweight... Not between the two rods like everyone says to measure.

I'm going to lightly sand the sides of my rods to gain some clearance... I think mine are too tight by about .002" to .003" per rod, no matter how I look at it.
 
#429 ·
Thanks for the diagram.

The .15mm to .45mm side clearance in the diagram converts to .006" to .018". But it is a little confusing because it shows that this is measured between the side of the rod and the crank counterweight... Not between the two rods like everyone says to measure.
The clearances should measure the same whether you measure between the rods or between either rod and it's adjacent crank pin cheek, Mike. If they do not then there is some Sherlock Holmes work required to determine why.

I'm going to lightly sand the sides of my rods to gain some clearance... I think mine are too tight by about .002" to .003" per rod, no matter how I look at it.
Nothing wrong with this as long as your target clearance falls into the Ford spec. The oiling system is essentially an engineered leak. By adjusting clearances at various points you control the volume of oil delivered to the different bearing surfaces. You want to be both cautious and deliberate if you begin to modify the flow characteristics of this engineered leak called the oiling system.

Ed
 
#430 ·
Based on that then perhaps I don't need to make any changes... If the factory spec is as little as . 006" rod side clearance then I'm okay across all journals... But still a little tight according to Sean Hyland specs, and very tight according to the Manley specs. I think I need to try and hit the middle of the mark here and open up the clearances just a touch.... Like .002 to .003"

Thanks for the input.
 
#431 ·
The mid point is a good target Mike. That is where the pieces were originally designed to operate. The tolerance figures identify the upper and lower limits the design engineer was comfortable with.

Ed
 
#432 ·
I got everything taken apart and reassembled today (can't be working on it tomorrow during the Superbowl) The sanding of the side of the rod big ends was pretty easy. I just used a sheet of 150 grit sandpaper laid on a flat steel table. Then I worked the rods in a circular motion, taking plenty of measurements along the way (kind if like ring filing). All rod side clearances are now exactly .012" I know it's under the Manley spec of at least .015" ... However, it's exactly in the middle of the Ford spec of between .006" to .018", and virtually the same as Sean Hyland's recommendation of .011"

One more little tip I stumbled upon tonight. The oil slinger was being a real pain to try and push on the crank ... Now I see why the diagram (posted previously in this thread) shows an installation tool for it... However... I found that the big end of my tapered 3.552" ARP piston ring compressor is EXACTLY the right size to fit that oil slinger. I was able to press it right on with some moderate pressure using this trick.
 
#434 · (Edited)
Since Ed posted the page from the assembly manual above (Post #425), it reminded me that I neglected to add some interesting trivia concerning the engine blocks. On the upper left is a block that lists piston bore diameters and assigns them a "grade" from 1 through 3. Here's the chart again to have handy:

Rectangle Font Parallel Number Brand


Corresponding with those grades, the bores are measured and actually marked on each block in what is referred to as the "Pin stamp". This stamp starts off with eight digits (in the case of these eight cylinder blocks), and each digit represents each bore in order, one through eight. My Aluminator block stamp looks like this, with each cylinder given a "2":

Automotive tire Automotive design Rim Bumper Automotive wheel system


Since each "2" corresponds to 3.5517 - 3.5522" (the chart is in millimeters), it made sense when each of the bores in my like-new block was measured. It was perfect to go with the 3.555" piston. For anyone scoring a used block, it will make for good reference to see where yours started and where it is when ready for a "new" build!
 
#435 ·
Joe,
That's interesting info... Made me go look at mine... Guess I got a couple "3" cylinders in my donor block, but mostly "2's"... But it had only 34k miles so it only needed a hone.
Automotive tire Automotive design Auto part Machine Rim


I got most of my long block assembled today... Now just got to tackle accessories, clutch, tranny, and hiding the wiring.
Motor vehicle Automotive tire Engineering Gas Machine


By the way Ed... What do you recommend the torque value to be for the crank stud mod? I looked at some ARP charts and it seems like it should be about 150 to 160 Ft. Lbs.
 
#436 ·
Go over to the Complete Modmotor ARP Fastener Listing thread on page 1 of this forum Mike and also in the TToC under the Engine Builds section. It will have a downloadable pdf of most of the ARP H/W for our engines. It is missing a few things like cam tower studs and flywheel bolts. The pdf will show the torque or stretch tightening spec targets for everything including the crank snout stud, which I believe is 180 ft/lbs.

Ed
 
#438 ·
I would guess this is the case, but I couldn't say that I am 100% sure. It does make sense though.

I'm hoping to go on a tour of the Brookpark Engine Plant here in Cleveland sometime soon (where Ford is currently producing the EcoBoost engines), so if That happens, I'll check out those blocks, too. Might have to do yet another "build" thread!
 
#440 ·
I should clarify that all the V-8 blocks I've seen have been stamped. I'll assume it is the same for the V-6 as well, just never looked. I bet everyone with a V-8 block will be looking for sure now!
 
#444 ·
Been following this thread for a while as my Termi swapped 89 LX might need a rebuild soon.

Joe,

Nice work! Cant wait to see the results after the tune. My current tune is from Eric Brooks, I might send you a PM later as your comment earlier has me concerned about his availability.

Now, why I decided to join the discussion. I used to work for a large OEM manufacturer in chassis and drivetrain department. If Ford's engine assembly process was/is similar to my previous employer, grading the bores was done to reduce time on the production line. The bores were measured and classified (1,2,3) as were the pistons. When the block arrived at the piston/con rod station, the line worker would select a piston for each bore based on it's classification by matching the numbers (1 for 1, 2 for 2, etc). This was a simple, fast way to ensure piston to bore clearance was acceptable while reducing assembly time and increasing production rates. I would assume all modern engine manufactures use this process.

Hopefully, I added some additional info to one of the most informative modular engine threads I''ve seen!
 
#451 ·
Oh yeah Ed, I've definitely perused his terminator site...many times actually lol. Like you say.... Amazing. His attention to detail is quite remarkable...

On another note, I sent Ed the piston from number 7 hole from my OEM engine, the one in the pic I posted early in this thread. If we're lucky, maybe he will comment on this thread for all to hear on exactly what the piston tells him. We've speculated that years of incipient detonation finally took its toll on the pistons as all 8 were damaged with 7 being the worst. But with it in his hands for him to inspect up close and personal, I thought that would be the best way to determine what we're looking at. But, alas, Ed is in Pomona at the winternationals. We'll have to wait until his safe return for the full report....
 
#452 ·
Just was fortunate to have friends in low places! That, plus I've been hoarding pictures and documents for years, which then made organizing them a real chore. Glad everyone can enjoy all the stuff, along with this thread.

Safe travels to Ed: will be in his neighborhood later this week, so I'll get a full report out of him!
 
#456 ·
Will definitely bring that up. Looking forward to what he'll have to say, which I imagine will also affirm his affinity for the Vampire!

One thing I always wondered was why the t-56's has the weight on the pivot arm?
I think it is a combination of weight/leverage, as well as a damper of some sort. I think plenty of guys have removed it with no adverse effect (easy to do so), but I left mine in. If you take yours out, let everyone know how it feels.

I'm just wondering how does the latest Coyote 2015 Aluminator compares to the old Aluminator

Ford Racing 5.0l dohc Aluminator supercharger-ready crate engines M-6007-A50SCA
Well, the first Aluminator 5.0 was a stroker short-block, using the 3V block and Eagle components. It was flexible enough to adapt 2V, 3V, or 4V heads and could be built in N/A or S/C fashion. Here's the specs on it: http://www.terminator-cobra.com/M_6009_A46X.pdf

The new Aluminator is based on the Coyote '15-up engine, which is complete. Lots of info out there on it.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=25250
 
#455 ·
I'm just wondering how does the latest Coyote 2015 Aluminator compares to the old Aluminator

Ford Racing 5.0l dohc Aluminator supercharger-ready crate engines M-6007-A50SCA



mike69440




Crazy SVT Poster
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Join Date: March 2002 Location: Northfield, NH Posts: 756
 
#458 · (Edited)
It could be that they tweaked the front scrapers, or it just has the '05-'10 GT pan. Only one way to find out, though, but probably not worth going to those extremes. I bet if you called FRPP and asked, they would still have the information as to all the parts that went in to the engine.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit: Here's a pic of an original Aluminator long block, which does look to have the Terminator oil pan on it:

Product Motor vehicle Toy Automotive tire Automotive exterior


You can always look at the engineering number stamped on the bottom of the pan, which I believe was XR3E-6675-DB. If it's that pan, you just have a mystery of what they did with regards to making the windage tray work. If you aren't wanting to pop it off, I'd say just give FRPP a shout and hopefully they can tell you. Will be interesting to know!
 
#486 ·
You can always look at the engineering number stamped on the bottom of the pan, which I believe was XR3E-6675-DB. If it's that pan, you just have a mystery of what they did with regards to making the windage tray work. If you aren't wanting to pop it off, I'd say just give FRPP a shout and hopefully they can tell you. Will be interesting to know!
I just did, and Steve said,

"Now that I think about it, the Only thing 3 Valve in this engine is the block. There is nothing 3 Valve about the block either, it is just the block we use, because it was a newly upgraded Modular aluminum block, with strength on the same plane as the old Texsid blocks."

So I'm thinking: they just used 4V Cobra windage tray, pickup, and pan. Is there any reason that they could NOT use all the 4V cobra stuff with the Aluminator block?
 
#460 ·
In a word, yes.

Most Teksids use a different side bolt arrangement but other than that, they end up quite similar to the Aluminator. Do not confuse an Aluminator block with a standard WAP block. The WAP block is not well suited to blown power levels above about 600 RWHP.

Ed
 
#462 · (Edited)
It's probably a good thing the WAP block never made it through the durability tests for the Terminator. The down side is the heavy iron block, but it was the best option at the time. All the details on the rest of the blocks are here:

http://www.terminator-cobra.com/castings.htm
 
#469 ·
If you use the bearings Joe documented in his build thread you will have the flanged thrust you are looking for without having to machine the block.:beerchug:

Ed
That's exactly what I wanted to hear! No maching to make them fit and much stronger. Thank you!
 
#468 ·
Your observations about the vagaries of tightening fasteners to a prescribed preload or stretch value are spot on Mark.

ARP has done some significant work in the area of fastener lube that really mitigates the problem. It is still important to keep the bottom of the washer dry and the top of the washer along with the fastener threads lubed. If you do this and use ARP UltraTorque lube you will repeat in a way that is at first uncanny and later after you have done it a number of times - expected.

When you do rod bolts the preferred method is measuring bolt stretch but still using UltraTorque as the lube.

Here are two excellent videos about ARP's UltraTorque product and its performance. One is by Horsepower TV and the other is by ARP. I think you will find both quite interesting;



and



The second video is more data centric while the first lets you see the testing process ARP uses.

Ed
 
#471 · (Edited)
Great ARP videos from Ed - well worth watching for anyone using their fasteners!

Thanks to Mark for chiming in as well. While I'll agree with you on the difference in torque being difficult to verify, especially from 85 ft/lbs to 90 ft/lbs, I still wanted to stay on the conservative side rather than push the upper limits. Here is a cross section of one of the Aluminator blocks that had the ARP studs run down to 100 ft/lbs, which ended up cracking the block (you can see the crack running down from the void in the bolt bore):

Wood Automotive tire Tool Office supplies Auto part


I don't know all the details on this one, but from what I read, it definitely stemmed from the high torque on the studs. Ed would probably have more info on this one, but in any case, I was content staying at 85 ft/lbs. I also won't forget that a re-torque of the studs is in order, but I haven't been in a mad rush.

Since the engine is essentially done save for final wiring of the Vampire and a tweak of the tune, there isn't a heck of a lot to report. I did decide to pull the AeroForce Wideband and go with a dual-bank setup, so I'll be starting on that over the weekend or early next week (I'll have to pull the mid-pipe back off - again - to have another bung welded in). The kit I went with is the Innovate 3891, which I picked up from a vendor on eBay for about $320.

Here's one of the gauge faces from their stock photo (the other is white):

Font Audio equipment Auto part Electronic device Cable


Since I have the Interceptor on the steering column now (under the AutoMeter pod), that will be coming off. I've thought about the Speed of Sound pods, so I might be sending my OE A-pillar cover in to Alan there for modification, which is about $125. Being picky, I snagged a NOS cover to keep as a spare that was probably the last one in existence anywhere (so I was told), so I'll keep that one stashed away.

For anyone that goes this route, I figured it is worth noting that there were two different A-pillar covers in the Terminator (actually it was changed for all Mustangs later in the '03 run and in to '04). For anyone that doesn't want to have an original cover modified while searching for a spare to buy for this, here is a cross section of them (courtesy of the SoS site). Mine is the later one, which was Ford p/n 3R3Z-6303599-AAB (with the '3R33...' engineering number):

Product Font Wood Auto part Automotive exterior


A couple generic pictures of the pillar with the dual 2-1/16" pods. Alan does a great job with these since the pod texture is a nice match to the OE texture along with the Dark Charcoal color, of course.

Wood Tool Metal Hand tool Office supplies


Rectangle Cylinder Tints and shades Pipe Circle


Also, since I still need to wire in the Vampire, I have been giving some thought to snagging the AEM harness (30-2980) so I can solder in the leads and make it a plug-and-play deal. I might also check with my local Ford guys to see if the PCM plugs are available through Motorcraft so I could possibly build this myself. If not, the AEM harness runs about $240.

Hand Arm Human body Glove Sleeve


More on this part of the project in the upcoming week.
 
#474 · (Edited)
Great ARP videos from Ed - well worth watching for anyone using their fasteners!

Thanks to Mark for chiming in as well. While I'll agree with you on the difference in torque being difficult to verify, especially from 85 ft/lbs to 90 ft/lbs, I still wanted to stay on the conservative side rather than push the upper limits. Here is a cross section of one of the Aluminator blocks that had the ARP studs run down to 100 ft/lbs, which ended up cracking the block (you can see the crack running down from the void in the bolt bore):

View attachment 144305

I don't know all the details on this one, but from what I read, it definitely stemmed from the high torque on the studs. Ed would probably have more info on this one, but in any case, I was content staying at 85 ft/lbs. I also won't forget that a re-torque of the studs is in order, but I haven't been in a mad rush.

Since the engine is essentially done save for final wiring of the Vampire and a tweak of the tune, there isn't a heck of a lot to report. I did decide to pull the AeroForce Wideband and go with a dual-bank setup, so I'll be starting on that over the weekend or early next week (I'll have to pull the mid-pipe back off - again - to have another bung welded in). The kit I went with is the Innovate 3891, which I picked up from a vendor on eBay for about $320.

Here's one of the gauge faces from their stock photo (the other is white):

View attachment 144313

Since I have the Interceptor on the steering column now (under the AutoMeter pod), that will be coming off. I've always liked the Speed of Sound pods, so I'll be sending my OE A-pillar cover in to Alan there for modification, which is about $125. Being picky, I picked up a NOS cover to keep as a spare that was probably the last one in existence anywhere (so I was told), so I'll keep that one stashed away.

For anyone that goes this route, I figured it is worth noting that there were two different A-pillar covers in the Terminator (actually it was changed for all Mustangs later in the '03 run and in to '04). For anyone that doesn't want to have an original cover modified while searching for a spare to buy for this, here is a cross section of them (courtesy of the SoS site). Mine is the later one, which was Ford p/n 3R3Z-6303599-AAB (with the '3R33...' engineering number):

View attachment 144321

A couple generic pictures of the pillar with the dual 2-1/16" pods. Alan does a great job with these since the pod texture is a nice match to the OE texture along with the Dark Charcoal color, of course.

View attachment 144329

View attachment 144337

Also, since I still need to wire in the Vampire, I have been giving some thought to snagging the AEM harness (30-2980) so I can solder in the leads and make it a plug-and-play deal. I might also check with my local Ford guys to see if the PCM plugs are available through Motorcraft so I could possibly build this myself. If not, the AEM harness runs about $240.

View attachment 144345

More on this part of the project in the upcoming week.
Joe, let me save you some time and let you know that all of the AEM PCM extensions are discontinued. Jegs and Summit still list them and so do some other dealers but they're no longer made by AEM. I also called AEM directly and spoke to a sales guy and an engineer about this. They no longer make them due to the connectors being obsolete. I asked the engineer fella for some part numbers (in hopes I can track down the connectors or pins to piece together my own) and they got defensive.

Long story short, I went to http://www.mass-air.com/Products.htm and picked up there 104 pin ECU extensions to wire in my Vampire. It's cheaper than what the AEM sold for and is a quality piece (all 20awg wire). Looking at the extension, both the male and female connectors are OEM ford connectors making it a sure fit for our needs. If you want any pictures of mine, let me know and i'd be happy to share. It's just sitting here in my parts room (aka, spare bedroom) lol
 
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