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Aluminator Gibtec Build

448K views 789 replies 65 participants last post by  eschaider 
#1 · (Edited)
Thread update: Table of Contents

Since this thread has gotten long and I've received many PM's on Facebook and e-mail with questions about the build, I figured a ToC would help anyone searching. It is based on 15 posts per page, and is also broken down in groups and now with hyperlinked post numbers. In the event some quick info is needed, this should make it easy! Also, all hyperlinks, other than the obvious cut-and-paste links are bold so they stand out and are easier to recognize, especially when not logged in.

p.1 (Posts 1-15): Short block, pistons, heads, '98 Cobra cams, bearings, ARP parts list, oil pump & windage tray
p.2 (Posts 16-30): Oil cooler gasket, block heater, head gaskets, more on ARP
p.3 (Posts 31-45): Timing components, cam bolts
p.4 (Posts 46-60): Timing cover bolt modification (aluminum block), upgraded secondary tensioner
p.5 (Posts 61-75): Cam degree tools
p.6 (Posts 76-90): Misc. chat
p.7 (Posts 91-105): Oil slinger discussion
p.8 (Posts 106-120): Oil slinger cont., rear main seal
p.9 (Posts 121-135): Rear main seal cont.
p.10 (Posts 136-150): King bearing tech from Ed
p.11 (Posts 151-165): King bearing tech cont., GT-500 rockers, timing cover hole (Cont. from P.4)
p.12 (Posts 166-180): Degreeing the cams, '98 specs
p.13 (Posts 181-195): Degreeing the cams cont., timing cover, cam follower install
p.14 (Posts 196-210): Primary tensioner ratchet modification
p.15 (Posts 211-225): Primary tensioner spacer modification (update to P.14)
p.16 (Posts 226-240): Primary tensioner spacer modification cont.
p.17 (Posts 241-255): Valve cover mock-up, exhaust manifolds
p.18 (Posts 256-270): Tensioner spacer info from Ed, ready to pull "old" engine
p.19 (Posts 271-285): Oil cooler, PCV fitting for aluminum block
p.20 (Posts 286-300): Quick Seat info
p.21 (Posts 301-315): Old vs. new piston trivia, valve covers
p.22 (Posts 316-330): New engine installed, Centerforce clutch
p.23 (Posts 331-345): Crank damper, accessory belts
p.24 (Posts 346-360): Transmission install, accessory belts cont.
p.25 (Posts 361-375): Power steering pump and A/C install notes
p.26 (Posts 376-390): First start!
p.27 (Posts 391-405): First start cont.
p.28 (Posts 406-420): Notes on PTW clearances from Ed, Vampire introduction
p.29 (Posts 421-435): Rod clearance notes from Ed, block bore information
p.30 (Posts 436-450): OE piston trivia
p.31 (Posts 451-465): Misc. oil pan discussion
p.32 (Posts 466-480): Head stud info & torque notes from Ed, wideband install, PCM harness info
p.33 (Posts 481-495): PCM connector notes
p.34 (Posts 496-510): Gauge install, oil pressure sensor, billet oil filter
p.35 (Posts 511-525): Oil and pump discussion
p.36 (Posts 526-540): Head stud re-torque
p.37 (Posts 541-555): Head stud re-torque cont.
p.38 (Posts 556-570): Head stud re-torque cont.
p.39 (Posts 571-585): Project cost sheet, Vampire install completion
p.40 (Posts 586-600): Vampire adjustments
p.41 (Posts 601-615): AFR and piston notes from Ed, Vampire gauge addition
p.42 (Posts 616-630): More from Ed on detonation, new CAI
p.43 (Posts 631-645): Vampire gauge video clip
p.44 (Posts 646-660): Dyno tune results and video clip (11/1/16), new oil separator
p.45 (Posts 661-675): Switch to Mobil1 0W-40 & UOA, piston wrist pin discussion, updated alternator
p.46 (Posts 676-690): General alternator discussion
p.47 (Posts 691-705): Bolt torque & #5 thrust bearing comments, upgraded tensioner, Whipple 2.3 on the way
p.48 (Posts 706-720): Whipple talk, new intercooler, more fuel system chat
p.49 (Posts 721-735): More on the Vampire, 4.6 vs Coyote discussion, intercooler pictures
p.50 (Posts 736-750): Eaton removed, intercooler comparison pics, Whipple installed, intercooler tech
p.51 (Posts 751-765): Some e85 talk, first drive with the Whipple and new intercooler
p.52 (Posts 766-780): Visit to Gibtec, some info on Prolong
p.53 (Posts 781-): More on Prolong, new Explorer ST to go with the Cobra.

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This project had been in the works for a while: started a few years back when I picked up a brand new set of FRPP heads and a like-new Aluminator block for less than $2,000, which sat in storage until now. The smart thing to do would have been to sell the goods and make some money, especially since my OEM engine only has 21,000 miles on it, but who can resist tinkering. Adding to that, when you can make something leaps and bounds better, might as well enjoy the fruits of your labor while you have the chance.

I'll actually begin with a shot of where I am as of the date I decided to start this thread (fall of '15), but will go backwards to the early stages and update it little by little with as much tech as I can. Since there are not a lot of Aluminator builds out there, hopefully this will be helpful to anyone considering this route. Here's the long block:

Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive design Automotive exterior Engineering


Before moving on, I have to pass on a world of thanks to Ed for designing the finest 2618 aluminum piston out there through Gibtec of Denver, and for his willingness to help out so many on this forum with the encyclopedia of knowledge he possesses!! For those that haven't seen the Gibtec "Custom ModMotor Piston" thread, here are my specs (0.002" oversize) and pics added from it:



Gas Circle Plastic Electric blue Liquid


Camera lens Camera Camera accessory Digital camera Lens


Helmet Sports equipment Automotive lighting Sports gear Audio equipment


I also intended to add an Aluminator build page up on my own site, but for now it just serves as a link back here since this got long. For anyone curious about the Aluminator block, this Castings page has a bunch of information on what makes it such a great choice! Stay tuned, more to come...
 
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#85 ·
Getting back on topic.... Are the upgraded timing chain dowel pins really necessary? Or... A better question... When are they necessary and why? Is it a power level thing... A valve spring pressure thing.. An RPM related thing.... Or is it just one of those "good insurance" items like most upgraded bolts?
 
#86 ·
I wouldn't say any upgrade is necessary, however, it is cheap insurance and you'll have piece of mind knowing an issue will not come up in the future. if your engine is apart, its definitely a good idea to do!
 
#88 ·
+1^ What Tony said. The fix is easy now with James drilling/tapping fixture. The cost is small compared to the potential damage depending on what is happening when they break. The stock pins were clearly undersized. New generation engines out of Ford all use 8mm hardware.


Ed
 
#96 ·
+1^ What Tony said. The fix is easy now with James drilling/tapping fixture. The cost is small compared to the potential damage depending on what is happening when they break. The stock pins were clearly undersized. New generation engines out of Ford all use 8mm hardware.

Ed
I see that the stock 6mm pins were screw in style on the aluminum blocks only; my OEM iron block had press in pins. How is this addressed?
 
#90 ·
The cost of the one-time use fixture & pins is a small price to pay when you sink huge coin in to these engines. When I used my fixture, I was real careful drilling and could easily get another use (or two, or three...) out of it. Worst case, you could buy one and re-sell it to someone for another use and recover some of the funds.

While you are ordering from James, don't forget the new secondary tensioner for the passenger head, along with a Stewart water pump! All worthwhile items to have on the inside.
 
#91 ·
I just placed my order with Cobra Engineering for the dowel pins and the multi-use drill fixture.

As for the other parts.. My application is a 3-valve... So no secondary tensioner for me. And I already have the high-flow water pump... So I'm good there too. But great reminders for 4-valve builds.
 
#94 ·
This tool is one that you will use again with each new block. It really ought to be a permanent part of a tool inventory.

Ed
That is for sure! Along with that there are all the OTC gadgets and about a thousand other things every mechanic should have. If the cars and engines aren't expensive, the supporting tools sure are!

http://www.altronicsinc.com/degree-wheel/digicam-digital-engine-degree-wheel-1.html

This is another great tool for someone doing cams with... Surprised ED has not shared this yet...
Very neat. Looks there is quite the process to master that, but someone may want to give it a whirl. Think I'll be doing it the old fashioned way soon enough though.
 
#99 ·
My question here is a little off topic, but still close enough.... Here goes:

With regard to the rear main seal on these engines I've seen several debates about what kind to use.. For example rubber, PTFE, Viton, or Teflon.... Thoughts, experiences?

But then there is the debate about the "oil slinger", aka "oil baffle", that came from the factory. Some say the 2-piece, seal & baffle isn't necessary, but I have to believe Ford thought it was necessary for some reason. It looks like the "oil slinger / baffle" is mostly a dust shield for the actual seal itself (like the pinion gear seal and shield set up) . It seems to fit very snugly over the crank and rotate inside the rear seal housing / plate. But I can't find any definitive answers. (Looking for Ed to weigh in here).

Since we are talking about building an engine here I thought I'd look for some discussion on this topic.

Thanks.
 
#101 ·
Opinions aside as to which way is the right way to go, I went ahead and picked up the seal as well as the slinger: both from Ford. The rear main seal retainer (i.e., the cover plate) is standard for the 4.6, so I bought up a new one for this block and installed the seal (the one I had with the block is the "old style" with the groove in the back, so removing all the old silicone would have been a pain!). Before the flywheel goes on, I'll add the slinger as well just for the extra insurance.

I have heard of vehicles where the slinger was left off, but it was originally specified for the Terminator. Ed will probably chime in for sure!

Font Parallel Technical drawing Engineering Auto part
 
#102 ·
I'm glad you posted the diagram...

By looking at the schematic the "L" of the slinger faces inward toward the seal. With the flat surface of the slinger facing the flywheel.

I've seen many sites showing pictures of it facing the other way with the "L" outward toward the flywheel... And the flat surface of the slinger toward the seal. This seems to be incorrect according to the schematic you posted.

What I also want to confirm is that the slinger is supposed to grip the crankshaft and spin with it... Mine seems to be a very snug fit on the crank with very little tension on the outer circumference that touches the retainer plate.
 
#105 ·
To clarify... There is a line touching the shape that says "Seal"... The angle of the triangular portion of the shape faces inward as it should.

I also see the line touching the leftmost piece saying "slinger"...

But what is the polygon shape / item in between those two things.?

If the slinger is the skinny line item on the far left, then I agree the "L" faces out toward the flywheel.

If the slinger is the polygon shape in the middle then it faces inward toward the seal (like a tetris piece).

I did notice that the slinger fits either way. I hope someone can clarify this... It's not exactly easy to fix once assembled and in the car.
 
#110 · (Edited)
To clarify... There is a line touching the shape that says "Seal"... The angle of the triangular portion of the shape faces inward as it should.

I also see the line touching the leftmost piece saying "slinger"...

But what is the polygon shape / item in between those two things.?

If the slinger is the skinny line item on the far left, then I agree the "L" faces out toward the flywheel.

If the slinger is the polygon shape in the middle then it faces inward toward the seal (like a tetris piece).

I did notice that the slinger fits either way. I hope someone can clarify this... It's not exactly easy to fix once assembled and in the car.
The "shape" is the space between the slinger and the seal. From a cross-section, the slinger looks like an "L", and it fits with its outer edge just slightly below the lip of the rear main seal retainer plate. I'll have to look the drawing up for the seal, but it is pressed in to a depth of about 1/4", which leaves a space between it and the slinger.

Also, yes, the slinger is "pressed" on the crank flange, so it will spin with it. This is obviously not the case with the seal, which is a press fit in the retainer plate allowing the crank to spin within it - just the opposite of the slinger.
 
#108 · (Edited)
From what I've been told the slinger is actually closer to a wiper. The thought behind it was keep the crank wiped of debris before it ever reached the crank seal. One look at a rear seal plate on car with thousands of miles shows that the seal is in a rough environment. We use something close to this in the industrial world with our bearings, we simply call them shields.
 
#111 · (Edited)
Here's a quick pic of my slinger. The bottom face (sitting on my garage floor) will be towards the front of the engine. The upper edge of the inner lip will sit just below the chamfer of the crank flange, giving the outer edge (a flexible wiper) the slight clearance inside the edge of the housing as it rotates. Hope that helps!

Automotive tire Window Snow Measuring instrument Rim
 
#117 ·
That's standard practice, and the Romeo drawing that shows its installation (I can post it if necessary) indicates that for both the front and rear seals.

I am back in the States Joe (challenged arrival) so we can schedule some time whenever you are ready.

The oil slinger provides a nice protective cover keeping the clutch dust and other contaminants out of the seal area and protecting the crank's seal surface. At first it seems like a redundant piece of equipment but it turns out to be a very nice protective shield as Ken has already said. BTW I would use one even on an auto - very nice mechanical design out of Ford Engineering for a change, much better than 4 thread sparkplugs. :)

Ed
Sounds good Ed, thanks for chiming in! The slinger seems to be more of an extra insurance policy, but if it keeps dust off the rear seal, it's a no-brainer to use it. For as little as it costs, it would be silly to leave it out, but I imagine more guys use it than not.

Will be on the move Monday through Wednesday, so hopefully I will touch base then. Glad you made it back!

Thank you for everyone's replies. I think we have it sorted out now.

Next question... On the Cobra Engineering upgraded timing chain dowls... What kid of torque spec is appropriate for those. I normally wouldn't hesitate at 25 ft. lbs. on an M8 stud, but that seems high to me... Whereas the factory spec of 96 in. lbs. for the smaller stud seems too low. I'm thinking around 18 ft. lbs. with red loctite?
Like Ed mentioned, don't go too crazy. I had commented as well in the post where I installed mine (first page) that I used 18 ft/lbs, which is the standard for the 8mm threads in all the front drive pulley bolts. I was being optimistic that I wouldn't have to pull these again an ended up putting a drop of red loctite on, but if they do ever have to come out, I can hit them with some heat. In any case 15-18 ft/lbs will do the trick.
 
#113 ·
I am back in the States Joe (challenged arrival) so we can schedule some time whenever you are ready.

The whole slinger / no slinger issue is more of a personal preference sort of deal. Like Ken (04DeadShort) has already indicated the industrial seal guys call these things dust shields or just shields. They are used in harsh environments to protect the real seal and also the sealing surface on the shaft that the seal actually seals against.

Inside the bell housing (as we all know from changing clutches) there is a lot of clutch dust. Some of that dust contains oxidizers that will both harden (embrittle) the outer face of the seal and also oxidize the sealing surface on the crank immediately adjacent to the seal. Over time some seals will shrink from age, heat and also the harsh environment they live in pulling back ever so slightly from their original sealing surface.. When they do if there is no slinger present, the old sealing surface is exposed to the clutch dust and contaminents becoming pitted and oxidized from the harsh environment. It usually does not present a problem for the old seal because it has shrunk inward to a fresh sealing surface.

When you freshen the engine and dutifully replace that raggedy old seal with a nice fresh new one, its sealing lip lands directly on the now oxidized original sealing surface of the crank. Usually within the first week or so you begin to notice a slight weeping of oil that accumulates on the floor under the car. If you guessed it was the rear main seal you are spot on. That's the bad news. The good news (if there is any) is you don't have to pull the crank on these engines to replace the seal but you do need to use some scotch-brits to clean up the crank's rear seal surface before reinstalling the next new seal.

The oil slinger provides a nice protective cover keeping the clutch dust and other contaminants out of the seal area and protecting the crank's seal surface. At first it seems like a redundant piece of equipment but it turns out to be a very nice protective shield as Ken has already said. BTW I would use one even on an auto — very nice mechanical design out of Ford Engineering for a change, much better than 4 thread sparkplugs. :)


Ed
 
#116 ·
Well said Ed 
Thanks Ken but you nailed it first. All I did was run around with the explanation perfume bottle spraying it in the air. :)

Thank you for everyone's replies. I think we have it sorted out now.

Next question... On the Cobra Engineering upgraded timing chain dowls... What kid of torque spec is appropriate for those. I normally wouldn't hesitate at 25 ft. lbs. on an M8 stud, but that seems high to me... Whereas the factory spec of 96 in. lbs. for the smaller stud seems too low. I'm thinking around 18 ft. lbs. with red loctite?
Don't get too frisky with the torque wrench Mike. Normally 25 ft/lbs on an 8mm fastener would be OK. The problem here is the base material we are anchoring in is aluminum and we are decidedly short of 4 diameters of thread engagement. If you look at a head stud and divide the 50mm thread length by the 11mm thread major diameter we are 4.5 diameters of thread engagement. On the timing chain pivot dowels we are woefully short of that number.

This is one of those occasions where we want discretion to be the better part of valor. If you use your 15 to 18 ft/lb target torque and use blue Loctite instead of red you will be better off. The blue will more than adequately lock the stud and a 15 ft/lb or so TQ target will not strip out the threads from the aluminum anchors in the block. If you use red loctite you might not be able to get the dowels out w/o damaging the threads. I used 15 ft/lbs and blue loctite on my own block

Ed
 
#115 ·
Thank you for everyone's replies. I think we have it sorted out now.

Next question... On the Cobra Engineering upgraded timing chain dowls... What kid of torque spec is appropriate for those. I normally wouldn't hesitate at 25 ft. lbs. on an M8 stud, but that seems high to me... Whereas the factory spec of 96 in. lbs. for the smaller stud seems too low. I'm thinking around 18 ft. lbs. with red loctite?
 
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