Teksid vs Aluminator block build

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  1. #1
    Member Array 04cobrawhine's Avatar
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    Default Teksid vs Aluminator block build

    So I've kinda decided to start over wit my build and I'm deciding between a teksid and an aluminator. I have both blocks in stock bore and look real clean (used)

    It will have a stroker crank with I billet rods and gibtecs hanging off the end .Its a twin turbo street car, hopefully pushing north of 1100 wheel on e85 and proefi

    Now I've heard that the aluminator blocks are stronger then the teksid, hence why I picked it up, as well as looking on the "castings" page here http://www.terminator-cobra.com/castings.htm
    however with a Google search you get a million different answers so I figured I'd see what everyone thinks.

    also what are the differences in building a teksid vs an aluminator? Are all the clearances the same ect? Also what about deburing the aluminator block?

    thanks

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    Good build practice dictates deburring any block. IMO Aluminators are modestly stronger but no where near as available as Teksids. So if you want to give yourself a break use a Teksid. It's cheaper, and more readily available.

    There are no differences other than the side bolts are different sizes and take different torques. John Mihovitz has an excellent set of 10mm side bolts for all mod motors. They will set you back about $20 a bolt before taxes and shipping. You will need to get the mains modified to accept a 10mm side bolt.


    Ed

  4. #3
    Member Array 04cobrawhine's Avatar
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    Thanks Ed. I have both blocks in my basement so I can use either one. I picked up the aluminator from a 07 gt for $300. Cylinders still look brand new.

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    Senior Member Array Wicked46's Avatar
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    Either block will do. If you have both, use the aluminator block. The mains on those blocks are impressive!

  7. #5
    Member Array 04cobrawhine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked46 View Post
    Either block will do. If you have both, use the aluminator block. The mains on those blocks are impressive!
    I heard the main caps on the teksid were forged and the aluminator were powered metal. Not sure I believe that. Can you shed any light on that?

  8. #6

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    Along with the link you posted (which is one of my sites), here is my build that has the whole process spelled out with the Aluminator block:

    https://www.modularfords.com/threads/...r-Gibtec-build

    It's been running beautifully since the first turn of the key, and with all the weight tossed off the front end, the car is a whole new animal. I'm obviously very pro-Aluminator, but unfortunately there are many guys out there that know very little about the block and will say a Teksid is always the way to go. In any case if you have the "Nemak" block, you'll dig it.

  9. #7
    Senior Member Array cobraracer46's Avatar
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    The Aluminator is five pounds heavier ( more durability) than the Teksid and Ford states that the Aluminator is the most durable 4.6 Aluminum block to date, but the Teksid is almost as good. I'm using the Teksid block in my future build because the 2001 Cobra that I purchased new got a Teksid motor right from the factory and the Teksid is close enough in durability to the Aluminator block that I don't see the need to spend the money on a new block.

    With the money I save by reusing the OEM Teksid block in my 2001 , I can spend it on silly stuff like this:
    Name:  mod7_01-600x600.jpg
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    These 9/16" to 1/2" custom head studs were originally designed for use in Top Fuel. They are much larger than the commonly used 11mm head studs and requires the block to be tapped to 9/16-12.

    Torque can be increased up to 125 ft lbs. Cylinder honing required after installation with torque plates. Some cylinder heads will require stud holes to be reamed to accommodate larger 1/2" stud. May require shorter dowel pins.

    Includes 20 studs, 20 nuts and 20 hard washers.

  10. #8

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    Both blocks are good platforms for performance builds of the engine. The Teksid is an old standby and has performed quite well at elevated power levels. The aluminator is a modern day best efforts next generation Modmtr block. Sometimes you can get lucky and get one for a Teksid block price. Whenever that opportunity presents itself I would take advantage of it. 3V mustang GT's tend to bring a higher price in the salvage yards, Which ever you can get you will have a robust platform to build upon.

    If I had access to both blocks my personal preference would be the Aluminator. That does not mean Teksids are red headed step children — that title goes to the WAP blocks used in Mach I's. Teksid or Aluminator will both provide a great platform to build on.


    Ed

  11. #9

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    Mihovetz still claims the teksid as the king. Either will withstand well north of what you are putting out. But, 1100rwhp and "street" do not mix. You need to decide is this a race car or a street car? And build it as such. Getting stuck with a "race hp goal" and a "street engine" ends up in broken parts and a "street hp" and a "race engine" end up with much more upkeep and maintenance.

  12. #10
    Senior Member Array RussZTT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobraracer46 View Post
    The Aluminator is five pounds heavier ( more durability) than the Teksid and Ford states that the Aluminator is the most durable 4.6 Aluminum block to date, but the Teksid is almost as good. I'm using the Teksid block in my future build because the 2001 Cobra that I purchased new got a Teksid motor right from the factory and the Teksid is close enough in durability to the Aluminator block that I don't see the need to spend the money on a new block.

    With the money I save by reusing the OEM Teksid block in my 2001 , I can spend it on silly stuff like this:
    Name:  mod7_01-600x600.jpg
Views: 825
Size:  62.9 KB
    These 9/16" to 1/2" custom head studs were originally designed for use in Top Fuel. They are much larger than the commonly used 11mm head studs and requires the block to be tapped to 9/16-12.

    Torque can be increased up to 125 ft lbs. Cylinder honing required after installation with torque plates. Some cylinder heads will require stud holes to be reamed to accommodate larger 1/2" stud. May require shorter dowel pins.

    Includes 20 studs, 20 nuts and 20 hard washers.
    Don't want people to get mis lead on the torque specs. The most you want to torque aluminum heads to aluminum block is 85ft lbs. Anything more can lead to stress cracks. What you don't want is "stretching". Even John M torques his motor to 85ftlbs.

  13. #11
    Senior Member Array IWRBB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussZTT View Post
    Don't want people to get mis lead on the torque specs. The most you want to torque aluminum heads to aluminum block is 85ft lbs. Anything more can lead to stress cracks. What you don't want is "stretching". Even John M torques his motor to 85ftlbs.
    He's always interjecting stuff that has no bearing on the conversation.

    I was thinking the same thing. 125 ft-lbs huh- in aluminum threads. OK, sure- let's all run out and do that.

    Using better hardware in that application is actually detrimental since you can't stretch it adequately to get the clamp load you are after.

    Back to talking about blocks.

  14. #12
    4.6 ways to waste money Array ugotbit's Avatar
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    I've also heard of core shift or distortion in the cylinder heads if over torqued...

    At this point all the blocks (Teksid, 3v, Aluminator,) are up to the task, pick the least expensive one and enjoy.

  15. #13
    Member Array 04cobrawhine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrgoffin View Post
    Along with the link you posted (which is one of my sites), here is my build that has the whole process spelled out with the Aluminator block:

    https://www.modularfords.com/threads/...r-Gibtec-build

    It's been running beautifully since the first turn of the key, and with all the weight tossed off the front end, the car is a whole new animal. I'm obviously very pro-Aluminator, but unfortunately there are many guys out there that know very little about the block and will say a Teksid is always the way to go. In any case if you have the "Nemak" block, you'll dig it.
    Your thread was what made me pick up the 3v block when I saw it. I figure for $300 I couldn't go wrong!! Be prepaired for lots of questions from me lol

    Quote Originally Posted by eschaider View Post
    Both blocks are good platforms for performance builds of the engine. The Teksid is an old standby and has performed quite well at elevated power levels. The aluminator is a modern day best efforts next generation Modmtr block. Sometimes you can get lucky and get one for a Teksid block price. Whenever that opportunity presents itself I would take advantage of it. 3V mustang GT's tend to bring a higher price in the salvage yards, Which ever you can get you will have a robust platform to build upon.

    If I had access to both blocks my personal preference would be the Aluminator. That does not mean Teksids are red headed step children — that title goes to the WAP blocks used in Mach I's. Teksid or Aluminator will both provide a great platform to build on.


    Ed
    Thanks Ed. I'll be going with the aluminator/3v block and getting the smallest hone possible (probably .003 clean up)

    Quote Originally Posted by IWRBB View Post
    He's always interjecting stuff that has no bearing on the conversation.

    I was thinking the same thing. 125 ft-lbs huh- in aluminum threads. OK, sure- let's all run out and do that.

    Using better hardware in that application is actually detrimental since you can't stretch it adequately to get the clamp load you are after.

    Back to talking about blocks.
    Thats exactly what I was thinking. 85 ft/lbs is what they will be getting.

  16. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by ugotbit View Post
    I've also heard of core shift or distortion in the cylinder heads if over torqued...

    At this point all the blocks (Teksid, 3v, Aluminator,) are up to the task, pick the least expensive one and enjoy.
    The 3v and aluminator are the same block.

  17. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by nightmare302 View Post
    Mihovetz still claims the teksid as the king. Either will withstand well north of what you are putting out. But, 1100rwhp and "street" do not mix. You need to decide is this a race car or a street car? And build it as such. Getting stuck with a "race hp goal" and a "street engine" ends up in broken parts and a "street hp" and a "race engine" end up with much more upkeep and maintenance.
    Cody's advice (above) is REAL GOOD advice. The two different goals are like oil and water — they do not mix!

    Quote Originally Posted by RussZTT View Post
    Don't want people to get mis lead on the torque specs. The most you want to torque aluminum heads to aluminum block is 85ft lbs. Anything more can lead to stress cracks. What you don't want is "stretching". Even John M torques his motor to 85ftlbs.
    Somehow I missed that 125 ft/lb TQ spec recommendation Russ, thanks for catching it! Just as Russ has already indicated this is a big time no-no! Both blocks have been shown to crack when the studs go over 100 ft/lbs. There is a growing body of evidence that the 100 ft/lb TQ spec for the 2000 steel studs exceeds what many blocks can reliably be torqued to. The 125 ft/lb figure will crack virtually all blocks out there and will also be well above the torque spec ARP has for the 2000 steel studs.

    If you are experiencing head gasket leakage at 85 ft/lbs you probably have a PD blower and a fairly impressive amount of torque from down low in the rpm range. The PD blowers strain MLS gaskets to their failure thresholds in these types of environments. The other thing that will push out a gasket is blowing the tires off, back pedaling, letting the tires hook and then getting back on the throttle. When you do this you will exceed the MLS style gasket's ability to seal the engine up (at any torque) and push out the head gasket.

    When you push out a head gasket under these circumstances you will damage the head and the block. That jet of fiery combustion gasses is just like an acetylene cutting torch. It will cut through anything and everything in its path. The pic below shows what mild damage will look like on the block deck. This particular driver lifted when he felt the engine start to fade away. If he had not, the damage would have torched out a half inch wide trough that would be around 3/16 of an inch deep through the liner, cylinder block and also head material.

    Name:  Deck Surface Sml.png
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    And this is what the corresponding damage to the head will look like. Same comment about lifting. Had the driver not lifted the damage would have become irreparable turning an expensive head into scrap aluminum.

    Name:  Original Head Sml.png
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    There is only one fix for this problem and that is dead soft copper head gaskets and stainless wire o-rings in the heads. To get a corresponding receiver groove in the block surface you need to use flanged sleeves. The sleeves are available from LA Sleeve and will provide adequate flange material to machine an appropriate receiver groove for a stainless wire o-ring that is installed in the head. This is what two of the sleeves look like side by side on 100 mm bore centers like we use;

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    Right about now Cody's earlier words should be ringing in everyone's ears. This kind of an engine is not even close to a dual purpose motor. It has crossed a line into race motor country and needs to be managed and operated as a supercharged race engine. BTW in case you haven't guessed by now, the other excellent operating practice is to kill the run if you loose traction. Attempting recovery and continuing to race will not give you a win, or any good tuning data and guaranteed, it will damage your engine.

    Here are a couple of real good guidelines for PD blown race engines;

    Driver's rule #1 when racing a high powered PD blown car;

    If you blow the tires off, shut the run down — you've already lost the race no need to loose the engine!

    Driver's rule #2 when racing a high powered PD blown car

    No matter how robust your PD blown engine feels down low, do not lug the engine — you will kill it!

    The reason the turbo cars can run the boost they do with gaskets the PD blown crowd can not is the way the blower boosts the engine at the hit. With a PD blown engine it gets everything the blower has, literally instantly. With turbo race engine's there is a very fast but smooth build up of boost as the engine comes up through the engine speed. The difference is how heavily the head gasket and other parts of the engine are loaded.

    Next time you watch FS1 and see an NHRA T/F or Funny Car race watch what the driver does if he strikes the tires down track — 9 time out of 10 times he will shut off unless the other car is in trouble also and he thinks he can win a pedal-fest. When he puts his foot back in the throttle, he delivers a death sentence to most of the rotating assembly's pieces and sometimes the car. Those operations carry the equivalent of ten engines worth of spare parts in the trailer and a couple of bodies. None of us have that kind of back up in our trailers.

    Be prudent there is no good reason to unnecessarily use up engine parts this way at our level of racing. Remember if you strike the tires, that he who lifts and drives away has an engine that lives to race another day. Don't race dumb!


    Ed

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