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Upgrading a 2001 Cobra Vortech after cooled system with a 2013 GT500 heat exchanger

16K views 31 replies 6 participants last post by  cobraracer46 
#1 · (Edited)
I've had a 2013 GT500 heat exchanger stashed away for quite a while in order to replace the small Vortech unit that is part of the after-cooled kit on my 2001 Cobra. Now the time has come to finally mount the 2013 GT500 intercooler parts on my new edge mustang. Of course a lot of fabrication will need to get done to fit a 2013 GT500 heat exchanger on a 2001 Cobra, but it should be straight forward. The stock Vortech after-cooler pump is quite small as well, even smaller than whats on a Terminator Cobra so that will also get replaced with a larger 2013 GT500 pump that flows more than double what a 2007-2011 GT500 intercooler pump flows.



Massive is best way to describe the 2013 GT500 intercooler system. To quote a 5.0 Mustang magazine article on the 2013 Gt500 intercooler set up:

"Charge cooling the supercharger's output has been the bane of blower Mustangs from day one, and with the GT500 now running 15 pounds of boost, even more intercooling was needed. This immense heat exchanger is the result. It measures 11-inches tall with three rows compared to last year's 7-inch-tall, two-row design. The coolant pump was also enlarged from 4 to 8 gallons per minute, and the pump moved onto the engine itself because the rear axle cooler's radiatorhttp://rover.ebay.com/rover/13/0/19...51925&IsFtr=0&IsSmart=0&dlprc=412.5&SKU=27499 grabbed its original location below the right headlight."

Benefits of the larger 2013 GT500 heat exchanger over previous GT500 models:

"
CoolingThe 662hp GT500 has hellish heat rejection to battle. This is especially true at high speeds, when the engine is working hard, and why SVT took a two-tier approach to cooling the new Shelby. That is, GT500s in standard duty cool just fine in base form, while the cars that are run at "... high speeds for a long time" are the reason for Track Cooling.
Erin Gibb, the SVT engineer tasked with working out the cooling details, started with the supercharger's charge air cooler (intercooler). This took some doing. Apparently three systems were tried before everyone was happy, but the result is a massively larger heat exchanger and a coolant pump with twice the flow capacity.
The larger exchanger and pump yield a huge 45-percent increase in heat rejection, which fully manifests itself at the road course. Whereas early GT500s would heat-soak after a few laps, then pull ignition timing for detonation protection--positively murdering horsepower in the process--the '13 GT500 laps continuously with only a minor reduction in power. We don't think you'll notice it. The car is consistent at the dragstrip, too."

With improvements this good, the results should be even better when replacing the super small Vortech aftercooler parts. Furthermore, this modification adds yet another piece of weaponry to go up against the hideous automatic transmission turbo cars.


Initial mockup of the 2013 GT500 intercooler
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A comparison between the 2007-2012 and the newer 2013 GT500 heat exchanger pump.

List price for the 2013 Pump is $250 While the 2007-2012 pump can be had for around $120 new

2013- 2014 GT500 part #DR3Z8501A

Harness needed in order to power up the 2013 shelby pump

DR3Z-14A411-C


First phase of the fabrication: building a bracket for the heat exchanger

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8
#2 ·
Furthermore, this modification adds yet another piece of weaponry to go up against the hideous automatic transmission turbo cars.
I remember my first beer.
 
#3 ·
Yea he has to mention it every chance he gets.. He's the type to put down other peoples stuff make himself feel better, that he has the best car on the planet lol.
 
#6 ·
Jan, I believe you have made the point that Josh was speaking to from his personal experience. Each of you have chosen to address the Vortec reliability issues in different ways. You have elected to replace what you have experienced as troublesome Vortec components with better components you have selected, to be used instead. In Josh's case he elected to pursue a different supercharging model with turbos.

I think you are getting caught up in a whose dog is better sort of dialogue. The whose dog is better discussion more often than not comes down to a matter of preferences. Try to focus your thread back on to the tech aspects of your upgrade and accept the fact that preferences are simply that preferences — they are not tech.

You have no need to defend your equipment choices and you should not attack other peoples choices. All that produces is drama and that is not what tech postings should be about. People of a similar mind will appreciate the tech and shun the drama. Please keep your thread to the tech facts that will help others who embrace similar values.


Ed
 
#7 ·
Jan, I believe you have made the point that Josh was speaking to from his personal experience. Each of you have chosen to address the Vortec reliability issues in different ways. You have elected to replace what you have experienced as troublesome Vortec components with better components you have selected, to be used instead. In Josh's case he elected to pursue a different supercharging model with turbos.

I think you are getting caught up in a whose dog is better sort of dialogue. The whose dog is better discussion more often than not comes down to a matter of preferences. Try to focus your thread back on to the tech aspects of your upgrade and accept the fact that preferences are simply that preferences - they are not tech.

You have no need to defend your equipment choices and you should not attack other peoples choices. All that produces is drama and that is not what tech postings should be about. People of a similar mind will appreciate the tech and shun the drama. Please keep your thread to the tech facts that will help others who embrace similar values.

Ed
With all due respect Ed, you are mis interpreting the point of my thread. I've said it many times before that it does not matter to me what equipment such as a power adder people choose to run on their vehicles. What does matter is what I feel is the best combination of parts for my car and thats the main point of this thread.

Ed, I was surprised to see your "whose dog is better sort of dialogue" paragraph given the fact that you have engaged in such a dialogue your self in many threads including this one http://www.modularfords.com/threads/246769-Diesel-truck-sized-pistons-for-boosted-4-6-Cobra-applications
Your quote: "There is absolutely no finer piston available anywhere for our engines."

Ed, I was also surprised that you said the following : "You have no need to defend your equipment choices and you should not attack other peoples choices, " given the fact that you were very out spoken with your opinion in this thread:
http://www.modularfords.com/threads/250482-New-GForce-axles-shafts-for-the-Terminator

Your quote: offering a "Old West snake oil elixir to simply drive sales for their latest hot rod parts."

Yes, Im fully aware Ed that we have our preferences in our choice of parts and as I have said many times, I take into account the trade offs and benefits in choosing a part. In this case I prefer to run a supercharger in my street driven vehicle.

Likewise, to be clear Ive made my preference known for superchargers over turbos, but if other people want to run a turbo system on their vehicles, that fine. I'm not personally attacking people for making choices that differ from mine. What Im saying is that There is a difference between showing a dislike for certain things versus attacking other people's choices so the following statement is not correct: "you should not attack other peoples choices." In other words, its possible to respectfully disagree.

For instance, I appreciate all of the posts Josh made in this thread and he made some good comments about his vortech mustang and the reliability issues he experienced and that triggered a good discussion where I talked about how I solved such problems.

Finally, the following statement does not represent what this thread is about: "Please keep your thread to the tech facts that will help others who embrace similar values."

The intent of this thread is simply to share my experience in adapting a Gt500 part to my vehicle with a bit of personal opinion thrown in. Seeing as this is my thread, I don't see anything wrong with letting my opinions be known. If I was going create a thread with the intent for others to embrace values that are similar to mine, then I would want people to treat others the way they want to be treated by showing mutual respect and agreeing to disagree and participate in thoughtful discussions that are free of personal attacks when opinions differ.

Jan
 
#8 · (Edited)
Jan the comment you made that drew all the fire was the following;

... this modification adds yet another piece of weaponry to go up against the hideous automatic transmission turbo cars.
...
That comment adds nothing to the technical merit of your thread and serves to antagonize users of turbochargers and automatic transmissions. The proof in the pudding is the responses you drew.

The two posts of mine you referred to represent, in the case of the pistons, purpose built parts designed to address shortcomings in current alternatives. The representation about their suitability for a given purpose is a statement of that design focus. The asymmetric axle offering and my response was a red flag for site members who would be persuaded these axles would eliminate their wheel hop issues.

As the inventor's patent clearly stated, the axle's capability to provide the wheel hop reduction was based on a detailed and careful tuning of the axles physical properties to a particular car, car weight, power level, suspension and tire size selection - all of which is a disclaimer to the universal availability of the benefit. Money is always tight on a build and there is no reason to spend on items which are marginal or can not deliver the benefit they purport without specialized efforts or processes that are beyond the reach of most enthusiasts.

Your commentary is very different, it attacks others without adding any technical merit to the posting. That is simply inappropriate on ModFords. The approach you take encourages the kind of cowboy or keyboard commando responses that pollute a site with useless and unhelpful back and forth banter. I have previously asked you to refrain from this posting style. If you choose to continue to post in this fashion, you will dramatically shorten the duration of your participation here.

Ed
 
#9 ·
Here's how you say it: this modification adds yet another piece of weaponry to go up against the hideous automatic transmission turbo cars

Here's how you SHOULD say it:
this modification adds yet another piece of weaponry to go up against the automatic transmission turbo cars

Amazing what removing 1 little word will do
 
#11 · (Edited)
As I mentioned before, I don't like turbo systems due to the dramatically reduced reliability and added complexity over supercharged systems. Likewise, the fact a turbo kit will only fit a 96-04 mustang if the factory K member is swapped out for a light weight tubular K member runs a chill through my spine because I feel that running a light weight flimsy tubular drag race k member on a street car is a bad idea as the photos below show
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White Bicycle part Bumper Automotive exterior Bicycle drivetrain part

Light Automotive tire Engineering Gas Auto part


Furthermore, some people mention super charger drive belt issues and the simple fix is to just use the heavy duty truck parts. The Super duty truck drive belt parts have proven reliability as Ford knows that commercial heavy duty fleet customers will not tolerate reliability issues as vehicle break downs are very costly to a fleet operation so I followed that logic and thew on some front end accessory drive belt parts from a heavy duty truck like the one below on to my Mustang and the results have been positive.


smashedheadcat: I appreciate that you took some time to contribute some good tech to this thread

98saleencobra: If you plan to post further in this thread provide accurate tech and if you have thoughts about directing a comment towards me, show respect or remain silent

Back to the GT500 heat exchanger install and progress is being made

Size difference between the 2013 GT500 heat exchanger and the Vortech unit
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Automotive parking light Automotive tail & brake light Automotive lighting Automotive tire Hood
 
#14 ·
... 98saleencobra: If you plan to post further in this thread provide accurate tech and if you have thoughts about directing a comment towards me, show respect or remain silent.
Jan I had previously suggested to you that;

...If you choose to continue to post in this fashion, you will dramatically shorten the duration of your participation here.
The post by Ryan (98sSaleen) was both correct and respectful. Your response was not. This is precisely what I have discussed with you many times. You've got one more shot use it wisely. Better yet, learn from this experience.

Ed
 
#13 ·
The most time consuming part of installing a 2013 GT500 heat exchanger on a 2001 Cobra involves the modification of the front bumper. The factory pumper is made of thick gauge steel that is hard to cut so its best to use an angle grinder with a carbide chop disc. What's more, the bumper will be structurally weak after all the cutting to make room for the new Shelby heat exchanger so extensive welding needs to be done to gain back the lost rigidity.

Marking up the bumper in order to start cutting Wheel Tire Hood Automotive tire Motor vehicle


getting the OEM steel bumper ready for welding to reinforce the center section.
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#17 ·
No problem buddy. I've been meaning to come down and see your shop (if you have one I'm not sure) but I moved to the east bay so I don't get down there to much.

To add to the tech, here are some pics of what I installed in my car. I now run a custom A/A setup..




- - - Updated - - -

No problem buddy. I've been meaning to come down and see your shop (if you have one I'm not sure) but I moved to the east bay so I don't get down there to much.

To add to the tech, here are some pics of what I installed in my car. I now run a custom A/A setup..




And some of my POS Griggs Racing Road Racing K-member.. This K-member holds multiple records under the hardest and most stressful road racing categories..





 
#18 ·
No problem buddy. I've been meaning to come down and see your shop (if you have one I'm not sure) but I moved to the east bay so I don't get down there to much....
I don't Chris. Just another enthusiast like the rest of us.

That Griggs Racing K-Member is very impressive. I like the way they fabbed the lower A-arms. Quite nice and very crafty. The workmanship, literally everywhere, makes it look like a hand fabricated piece that someone might do if they had the time and skills.

Ed
 
#19 ·
Yea the Griggs Stuff is top notch! When I was stationed in Point Reyes, CA I was at there shop atleast 2x's a month. I got on a personal basis with John. He's a great guy with a ton of knowledge. I rode in many of their cars and it was insane the transformation their stuff makes to a car. I have their extreme tq arm, watts link, front and rear coil overs too. I used to go Point Reyes to Petaluma on HWY1 regularly. If you go at sunrise, there is no one the road and It was insane ahaha. Drop off on one side and the mountain on the other. It was also nice because I was 30mins from Infineon too lol.
 
#22 ·
Yep I sure did. Cut a big chunk of it out. No biggie though. I don't keep anything in there anyways.
 
#24 ·
Yep, Griggs give you a sheet metal cover you put over it, pop rivet and seal it.. Super easy.. ;) I'm actually thinking about cutting out the entire tire well and doing a sheet metal flat flooring. Or Carbon Fiber
 
#25 ·
after a long break, I may provide more pics of the GT500 heat exchanger install along with IAT and ECT data, but in the meantime, I will add a good article about advantages of a manual transmission over an automatic from my friends over at Tremec.



Not so long ago, it was widely accepted that a true performance car had a manual transmission. In fact, some performance cars were only available with a manual transmission. Well, in the great age that is the 21st century, things have changed. Now the beloved third pedal is being replaced with paddle shifters attached to the steering wheel and a network of passionless electronics connected to them that signal the transmission what to do when the driver commands it. But we're proud to proclaim that the manual transmission is far from dead. In fact, here are 10 reasons that a manual transmission is still better than an automatic!

1.Because Anyone Can Drive an Automatic
Let's face it: most people driving a manual transmission today are doing so intentionally. Sure, 30 years ago it was an economy car or a pickup truck that people had, and more people knew how to drive them. But today, the default is an automatic. And anyone can move the lever from P to D; although some people need to be reminded to apply the brake before doing so. A driving enthusiast pilots a car with a manual transmission. It says, "I know what I'm doing, and I care about driving"

2.You Have Full Control
With a manual transmission, you decide when to shift the gears. No computer that thinks it knows better than you about driving and shifting. No wondering when the transmission will upshift, or the opposite situation when the transmission upshifts itself even though you have put it into "manual" mode. If you want to drive the engine higher into the RPM range than normal, that's your prerogative with a manual gearbox. You'll never be in a situation where your manual transmission shifts itself at an opportune time.

3.More Power to the Wheels
No one likes parasites, yet they are lurking in your car between the engine and the tires. Parasitic losses is an automotive term that describes the power that certain components consume, therefore keeping that power from doing its job of propelling your car. When it comes to transmissions, a traditional automatic transmission has an oil pump which requires power to turn. They also loose a certain percentage of engine power in the former of slippage found in the torque converter and clutches. All of that is power that a manual gearbox happily sends down the line to the tires to help put a smile on your face.

4.So You Can Drive Anything
Motorcycle. Forklift. Farm tractor. Class 8 truck. A Model T. Okay, so you might need a little coaching, but if you master a manual transmission and a clutch pedal in your daily driving, you're infinitely better prepared to drive nearly anything with an internal combustion engine and tires.

5.Easier Engine Mods
Between the vacuum and electronic controls of an automatic, along with the stall speed of the torque converter, modifying the engine has extra factors in it when there's an automatic involved. Sometimes, engine modifications can completely throw off an electronically controlled automatic transmission's shift points, both robbing you of potential power to be gained by the engine modifications and deteriorating the driving quality of the car.

6.People Are Less Likely to Borrow Your Car, Including Thieves
Since manual transmission are less common and learning to drive one is not required in driver's education, a surprisingly low number of Americans know how to drive them. That includes your college roommate who might otherwise ask for your keys to make a libations run or a thief looking for an easy target.

7.More Autocross/Track-Day Friendly
The problem with automatics in these scenarios is that it puts a lot of stress on the fluid and cooler connected to the transmission. Cooking the ATF in an automatic is muy mal, and can lead to failure and or decreased longevity. Even though some manual transmission also come with coolers, there is not a dramatic increase in heat generated in performance situations because the manual transmission does not have an oil pump creating heat and it does not rely on fluid pressure for proper shifting.

Past that, having a manual in an autocross/track day scenario gives you much more control of the vehicle for the course it's on. You can more precisely control engine RPM and keep the engine in its power band as you go through the turns of the course.

8.No Delays
Stepping on the gas and waiting for an automatic transmission to determine the appropriate gear and vary the torque converter slip to provide the acceleration you desire is no fun. With a manual transmission, when you want to accelerate, you choose to downshift if you feel it's needed and there's a direct correlation between engine rpm and tire speed.

9.A Direct Connection
Shifting your own gears gives such a more powerful, visceral, personal connection to your vehicle compared to an automatic. It's like making a gourmet meal yourself versus getting generic fast food. And then there's the direct connection between crankshaft and driveshaft. It's precise and constant; no torque converter or clutches designed to slip.

10.Less Maintenance
Automatic transmissions require regular fluid changes and have a filter that needs to be replaced. That's because a traditional automatic transmission with a torque converter has slippage and relatively high fluid operating temperature with normal use. This degrades the fluid much more quickly than in a manual transmission.
 
#27 ·
Vortech aftercooler pump flows less than terminator and shelby pumps. The 2013 GT500 intercooler pump dramatically outflows the 2007-2012 GT500 pumps and the OEM Terminator intercooler pump.

Size comparison between the super small Hella pump that Vortech supplies with their after cooler kits and the OEM 2013 Shelby GT500 intercooler pump made by Pierburg. Pierburg is an OEM supplier that is used extensively by the German junk such as Mercedes and BMW. From my understanding, AMG Mercedes uses a pump similar to this one on their supercharged models.

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A wiring diagram of the CWA50 Pierburg pump


Updated harness that I bought from my local Ford dealer
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I will note that I used the Aftermarket version of the Pierburg pump that's virtually identical to the 2013 GT500 version. However, there is a slight difference as it turns out that the Pierburg pump I have is known as the Pierburg CWA50 that's intended for use on Beamers, mercedes and other European piles of junk. No big deal except for the fact that the first connector I showed, the DR3Z-14A411-C works fine for the Pierburg pump you get From the Ford dealer parts counter, but it wont work on the CWA 50 unit because the GT500 version only needs ground on pin one and Power for Pin four so thats why the DR3Z-14A411-C pig tail only has two wires. It turns out that the CWA50 pump needs power to pin three as well as the Euro trash cars utilize pin 3 for a variable controller. At first I plugged in the DR3Z-14A411-C and I got nothing and I thought that some scumbag on EBAY sold me a new defective pump, but I solved the problem and got the pump running by using the WPT -1309 four wire connector with a 1.5K resister wired from pin four to pin three. Pin one is hooked up to ground and Pin four gets power just like on the Gt500.

More pump photos showing how I mounted up the new pump.

Old Vortech pump
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I quickly fabbed up a Bracket for the new Pierburg Shelby style pump

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new pump on the car

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#28 · (Edited)
look at how small the 2007 -2012 GT500 heat exchanger (aftermarket C&R heat exchanger is the same size as the 07-12 OEM ) is compared with the massive 2013 GT500 exchanger. the 2007 GT500 heat exchanger is in front.

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Old Carrol Shelby himself gave his blessings to the 2013 GT500 heat exchanger!


As promised here is the PCM data showing ECT and AIT temps that show dramatic changes for the better. As the data shows, AIT temps are way down and thanks to the added ducting and increased airflow to the heat exchanger, engine coolest temps also showed a slight drop as well.

before and after Inlet air temp (IAT) numbers in F:

Vortech after cooled system with the vortech supplied Hella pump and Setrab heat exchanger:

MIN MAX AVG
118 152 131.42

Vortech after cooled system with 2013 GT500 style Pierburg CWA 50 pump and 2013 Shelby GT500 Mustang super charger heat exchanger

MIN MAX AVG
80 98 85

Its important to note that that the IAT readings were taken on different days and i believe that base line ambient air temps were in the mid 50's and the second set of readings were recorded with air temps at approximately 70F so that shows that the GT500 parts made a huge difference in IAT temps. Furthermore, the IAT temps stayed right at 80F cruising around at freeway speeds.

As mentioned earlier, the only other upgrade I plan on doing to the aftercooler system is replacing the plastic Vortech tank with a fancy aluminum one.

Overall I'm happy the results as a 10f difference between ambient and inlet air temp is quite good.
 
#29 ·
Well done. I didn't mind my vortech tank so much, but that steel ring that secures the cap was garbage. Mine rusted to the point where I couldn't get the cap off. Thankfully, replacing all that stuff wasn't too expensive, but at the time, it was only a few years old.
 
#31 ·
Before and after PCM data shows that Engine coolant temps (ECT) actually went down slightly. For sure, the modified steel bumper that acts as an air duct plus the sealed off the sides of the radiator and the heat exchanger results in more air is reaching the radiator, not less.

I would like to see engine temps go down more and that will mean installing an oil cooler. The 2013 GT500 with the track package has an air to oil engine oil cooler as the photo below shows. Engine oil cooler is on the driver side and the diff cooler is on the passenger side.


I will most likely add a stacked engine oil cooler with an lines like this one.
 
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