Mustang and Ford Performance Forums banner

new build process

15K views 46 replies 5 participants last post by  LITTLEMAGS 
#1 ·
Previous combo was a teksid stroked 4.6 (3.80 Kellogg crank, manley rods and diamond custom piston) COG driven procharger with 100shot....couldn't ask for more. Last year decided to switch to a standalone and got a great deal on a used FAST XFI 2.0 and pulled the trigger. Decided while it was apart I needed to upgrade my roll bar to a cage.

Anyways...fast forward to install of XFI and we noticed overheating issues. We assumed was because I switched to a different (smaller) radiator but was actually an engine problem. I had moved sleeve #4 UP in the block. After tearing everything down I made the decision to switch to a turbo setup.

I will update more when things move along
 
#6 ·
I don't know how much boost you plan on running with the BOSS50 block, but I suggest using dead soft copper gaskets along with O-rings in the heads with the receiver grooves in the block. You'll need to use the figure 8 pattern with the BOSS block, but when done correctly, you won't have any issues with head gaskets and high boost on that block.

- - - Updated - - -

View attachment 158826
this is a look at the Teksid sleeve on number 4...
Did you have that block re-sleeved at some point? Kind of odd for the sleeve move like that, never seen it before on a stock block.
 
#5 ·
Went thru Caleb at CG fab for HOT side....stainless 4v race version. 60mm wastegate flange. He made them and had to me within 4 weeks and I promptly sent to get ceramic coated....lol should have just went with mild steel...lol Automotive tire Automotive lighting Bicycle Tire Bicycle handlebar
Bumper Automotive exterior Automotive exhaust Bicycle part Vehicle
Bumper Automotive exterior Fender Auto part Bicycle part
Bicycle part Bicycle handlebar Gas Fender Personal protective equipment
 
#9 ·
actually sold the whole setup...once I decided on going this route I sold it. Went faster than I expected...so I wasn't asking for enough $$. I have a quite a few things to get still...I want to redo my cooling system as well.
 
#14 ·
Yeah...I was originally TOLD by my original engine builder it was not sleeved. He no longer is in business after his son passed. (JT) Soooo....anyways, the rotating assembly though looks really good though BUT being a stroker package I went against using it in my turbo build and use standard stroke but with upgraded rods (oliver billet and big bore JE pistons)
 
#16 ·
As long as you use the dead soft copper gaskets that Jim recommended and also the stainless o-rings in the heads with corresponding receiver grooves in the block you should be very reliable, Dom.

Ed
 
#18 · (Edited)
The correct way to o-ring a block and heads is to put the receiver groove in the block and the o-rings in the heads, Dom. Somewhere along the timeline someone began to reverse this putting the o-ring into the block. That is the wrong approach! The correct approach puts the o-ring in the head and the receiver groove in the block.

To put a receiver groove in a block you must have an iron block or a flanged sleeve in an aluminum block. Because race heads are always aluminum you can not put a receiver groove in the head. The copper gasket material is harder than the aluminum the head is made of which will mush out the receiver groove in the head and cause a gasket failure along with a head failure and a block failure.

Here is a picture of a head properly o-ringed;

Automotive lighting Hood Light Motor vehicle Automotive engine gasket


This is a pic of a block properly machined to accept the o-ringed head;

Automotive lighting Hood Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive design


This is the way professionally built supercharged race engines are built. Flip flopping the order will ruin your parts and the shop will have all manner of explanation for why the damage is not due to them but rather improper operation on your part.

If you are going to do this then you need to have a shop that knows what they are doing and preferably has done it before. You can not do this on an aluminum block w/o installing flanged sleeves. This is where the receiver groove must go on the flanged LA Sleeves sleeve flange;

Rectangle Font Parallel Circle Symmetry


On a big bore BOSS block there is insufficient space between the two cylinders for two o-rings which is why Jim uses and is encouraging you to use a figure 8 o-ring placement in the head and a corresponding figure 8 receiver groove in the block. The figure 8 configuration is achieved by having the edges of the two o-ring grooves just overlap each other by the width of the o-ring wire. When you install the wire it will appear to be a figure 8 with the adjacent grooves just overlapping between the bores.

It is important to have the o-ring grooves for the stainless o-ring wire in the head and the corresponding receiver grooves in the block properly register so that the o-ring wire is positioned exactly in the center of the receiver groove in the block. If your shop has never done this before you need to find one that has or you risk ruining your parts.

Ed

p.s. The drawing is for a standard 3.552" bore Modmotor not a big bore. The bigger bore will necessitate a larger o-ring groove diameter because of its increased dimensions.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Ed pretty much summed up the details. The BOSS block will require a figure 8 method due to the lack of space between the bores for the receiver grooves. I've had great luck with the SCE soft copper gaskets, but some folks will recommend Clark Copper gaskets as well. I like to set the ring protrusion at about 30-33% of the gasket thickness and set the receiver groove slight deeper (.003-.005) then the protrusion of the ring. It's very important to re-torque the heads with this method (bring engine to operating temp, let cool completely and then re-torque). I've seen guys have major issues with leakage when they forgo the re-torque. Lots of work, but you shouldn't have any issues with head sealing.

Here's a picture that details the figure 8 method:

Font Diagram Circle Science Astronomical object
 
#21 ·
Spoke with my machine shop I had planned on using...I will be changing. They have done a lot of work in the past for me but they aren't well versed with the process. I did reach out to Livernois and they seemed receptive and said they had no issues with doing it. ( 4-6 week wait though...and roughly $800-$1000.00 for process) BUT they did say they had cracking issues with BOSS block HP going over 1000k.....???
I don't plan on being over 1k...BUT I will be close to 900....
 
#22 ·
Where is Livernois saying the blocks are cracking at? I've made well over 1K to the wheels with a Boss block and no issues that I've noticed during tear downs. Have you contacted More Power Inc. in Sparta Michigan? I'm not sure how close you are to them, but I know lots of folks that have used them for machine work.
 
#24 ·
Dom be careful of Livernois. When they are good they are really good. When they occasionally stray away the experience can be painful. BTW the pricing for the o-ringing is outrageously high. AJ just had his done earlier this year or late last year (don't remember which) and the price of custom sleeves, boring, honing to piston size, decking, o-ringing the heads and block all came to about $2K.


Ed
 
#25 ·
Dom be careful of Livernois. When they are good they are really good. When they occasionally stray away the experience can be painful. BTW the pricing for the o-ringing is outrageously high. AJ just had his done earlier this year or late last year (don't remember which) and the price of custom sleeves, boring, honing to piston size, decking, o-ringing the heads and block all came to about $2K.

Ed
Ed, do you happen to know the name of the machine shop that did AJ's work?
 
#31 ·
hell of a build and incredible tech info as always! I look forward to watching the progress
 
#33 · (Edited)
doing more engine bay work. I decided to skip the scott rod aluminum panels and just go all out and refinish the engine bay. I have seen a few others with it done and really like the look and with everything out of the vehicle. i might as well take advantage.
So took out aprons with trusting air saw...then started the fitting process. Ok...ONE thing...the scott rod panels are nice and for the price a great deal. BUT i had to fit a lot and i think i have three hours into each side with fitting so they will sit flush and look right.

- - - Updated - - -

Wheel Tire Automotive tire Hood Product
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top