2016 Roush vs Shelby F150 supercharger setup

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  1. #1

    Default 2016 Roush vs Shelby F150 supercharger setup

    Hello, could one of you explain to me the difference between these two motor/supercharger setups. Both Roush and Shelby will warrantee their version of the supercharged F150 to 3/36. By comparison both are Coyote power plants with different super chargers. The 2016 Roush is offered with 600 hp and the Shelby is at 700. The 2017 and 2018's have even more hp. How did Shelby get an additional 100 hp without sacrificing something in motor or drivetrain durability? My reason for asking is that I own a SC Roush F150 and wanted to upgrade to a smaller pulley setup which would give me an extra 50 hp but voids the warrantee. What has Shelby done to their offering?


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  3. #2

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    From the very little information I have gathered around when making the decision of wither to get a Roush or a Shelby, the Shelby has a Whipple 2.9 supercharger while the Roush has a Roush 2.3 supercharger. This should explain the additional 100-150 HP Shelby is advertising.
    Other differences:
    Roush has a leveling kit which gets the truck almost 2 inches high using Fox 2.0, while Shelby utilizes Fox 2.5 back and front which gets the truck somewhere between 3-4 inches higher than stock.
    Shelby use 18" wheels with 35 tires, Roush uses 20" wheels with 33 tires.
    Shelby uses Borla exhaust, Roush uses their own.
    Shelby uses rear traction bar on the 750 hp version only, Roush don't use at all.
    Both use upgraded injectors.
    Shelby adds an upgraded Billet throttle body, not sure about Roush.

    One major difference is that Shelby has only one trim, a fully loaded Lariat 502A package. Roush will upgrade whatever you give them starting from an XLT going all the way to Platinum. Eventually, I got the Roush, not only because I saved over 20K in cash, but because I got exactly the trim and specs I wanted. Don't get dragged behind marketing numbers, and focus on the one you like more. A professional tuner can squeeze a good amount of HP without compromising the integrity and safety of your engine. Roush also offers an upgraded pulley which gives you roughly 50 HP on the crank, not sure about the warranty with that upgrade though. Yes, I wish I can drive around in that mighty Shelby, but it just wasn't worth the extra money for the little gain I would get. Nothing a few mods can fix. Good luck.

  4. #3

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    Well said, I am aware of most of what you wrote. It appears the major difference in the two is the SC on each. I would consider the smaller pulley and tune but as I mentioned in the OP but both of those changes void the warrantee. 3/36 is important to me.


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  6. #4

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    Yoga, it appears that we both are driving the same vehicle. I have a question for you. My stock Roush F150 (no changes from factory new) will stall during full throttle which reaches redline rpm's before hitting the next gear. To my uneducated mind, this appears to be by design to prevent over reving the motor. Does yours do the same, or is there something wrong with my shift points? I want to let this thing run but cannot hit full throttle from a stop without the computer backing off the throttle. Any thoughts?


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  7. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by enfuego1291 View Post
    Hello, could one of you explain to me the difference between these two motor/supercharger setups. Both Roush and Shelby will warrantee their version of the supercharged F150 to 3/36. By comparison both are Coyote power plants with different super chargers. The 2016 Roush is offered with 600 hp and the Shelby is at 700. The 2017 and 2018's have even more hp. How did Shelby get an additional 100 hp without sacrificing something in motor or drivetrain durability? My reason for asking is that I own a SC Roush F150 and wanted to upgrade to a smaller pulley setup which would give me an extra 50 hp but voids the warrantee. What has Shelby done to their offering?


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    HP is simply the volume of fuel and air you burn per unit time. Shelby and Roush begin with the same engine platform used different PD blowers from different manufacturers and then supercharge and fuel their two engines at different mass air flows and fuel deliveries. The engine container is the same except for the manifold pressure, the fueling and obviously the tune.

    Each firm researched likely warranty issues at their target power levels and made decisions about what they were willing to roll the dice on warranty wise for the business that particular vehicle represents. When they had finished their analyses Roush put that threshold at 600 HP and Shelby put their threshold at 700 HP.

    You bought a Roush so you got a 600 HP package that Roush is willing to warranty at that power level. If you raise the power level you increase the probability of an engine failure above the ceiling that Roush was willing to roll the dice at. Roush will void your warranty and you will personally end up warranting your vehicle's engine. You have several options available to you;

    ◉ Use the vehicle as Roush has produced and warranted it,

    ◉ Modify the vehicle and assume the warranty risk yourself,

    ◉ Buy a different vehicle that meets your performance needs and provides a warranty at the power level you desire.

    There are no other logical alternatives. The only thing that remains is for you to decide which of the three alternatives best meets your needs and then proceed accordingly.


    Ed

  8. #6

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    Thanks Ed,good summary which makes sense. Both setups can accept additional power increases with minimal modifications and it is the gamble with each tune whether either would have a failure. If I could ask a follow up question, what do you believe is the weak link in each set up? Transmission? Rear end? Motor or something else


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  9. #7

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    The powertrain is fairly well sorted out after several decades. The weak point would most likely be the Coyote engine block. You have two likely main points of failure.

    The first failure point is a poorly developed calibration (tune) for the modified engine. More often than not the engine failure is the result of an operating environment not accounted for by the calibrator (tuner). The second likely point of failure is the actual block casting. Ford has been through perhaps four or more revisions to the block in an effort to chase down various points of failure ranging from insufficient oil supply on the first generation engines which used piston squirters to poorly supported sleeves at the 12 and 6 o'clock positions on later generations.

    The 100 mm bore spacing and the 92.2 mm bore size do the engine no favors in boosted high cylinder pressure builds. The minimal wall thickness present between the cylinders has difficulty maintaining gasket seal integrity. When the higher boost of a modified engine pushes out the gasket, the combustion fire is like an an oxygen-acetelyne cutting torch between the head and the block torching out aluminum on one or both surfaces. The resultant pieces while repairable are softened and loose their heat treat in the area of the weld repair. This further reduces an already marginal gasket seal and is frequently the point of the next failure.

    Additional failure points are the head stud anchors. To improve gasket seal a popular route is to use the 12mm ARP head studs. While the studs are a step in the right direction the anchor points for Coyote head studs are in the water jacket. The 11mm ARP 2000 studs are less likely to induce a block failure than the stronger 12 mm studs. The 12 mm studs provide a better gasket seal but put a substantial strain on the anchor points in the water jacket. As such they frequently induce a water jacket crack that can propagate along the top and side of the block destroying the engine. The only firm I am aware of with a fix for this problem is L&M engines who will drill and tap the block for a proprietary longer stud that anchors down in the main webbing. The cost for the stud upgrade is on the order of $1000 to $1500.

    Here is a link to help visualize the issue click here => L&M 12 mm Long Studs.

    There are plenty of other tender spots on the Coyote so I would be cautious about pushing too hard if you were personally holding the warranty repair expense card. If I was committed to modifying a Coyote engine then I would consider getting a good aftermarket block like the BBM Coyote block. This is a link to the first engine shop to have access to that block, click here => Coyote Extreme Lots of very nice features including replaceable flanged sleeves.


    Ed

  10. #8

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    Wow, this forum is lucky to have you as part of it. Thank you again for the detailed explanation.


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  11. #9

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    Ed in your second paragraph you suggested that an improper tune is one of the weak links in the SC setup. Are you suggesting that there are better/safer tunes out there for the stock supercharged Roush f15. If so could you point me in the right direction.
    Yes there are numerous threads out there but not everyone has the same knowledge base you appear to have.


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  12. #10

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    Whenever the engine configuration is changed, i.e. new MAF, injectors, fuel pumps, pullies or supercharger the engine's tune needs to be modified for the new equipment. Depending on the year, make and model of the vehicle in conjunction with the tuner's skills and familiarity level with the OEM calibration strategy the modified vehicle's tune may or may not dot all the calibration "i's" and cross all the calibration "t's".

    Once the tuner has completed his job, if he has not properly re-calibrated the ECU, the vehicle may display bad driving manners when you get it back or if the whoops was more subtle you can go for months even years depending on your usage before you discover some of the other subtle but very damaging mistakes. At that point in time the tuner is usually long gone and in another business.

    Here is a 2016 thread you ought to read about detonation that was so slight it was unnoticeable — which most people will tell you is nothing to worry about. I will suggest that detonation no matter how minimal over time can be exceedingly damaging to your engine. Click here => Detonation to read the thread.

    OEM ECU strategies are very complex and are programmed to do many boatloads of 'stuff' while the car is running. Fiddling with them successfully implies you have an above average understanding of how the ECU strategy was architected and used that knowledge when you developed the new calibration — not always the case ...


    Ed

  13. #11

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    Ed, being new to these forums (~2 mos) I appreciate people like yourself that are willing to share their knowledge. You are an asset to the forum and I thank you again for the education.


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