Waste gated Novi 2000 setup/build-thread - Page 3

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 3 First 123
Results 31 to 41 of 41
  1. #31

    Default

    Excellent choice at, I am sure, an equally excellent price. Good catch with a Mod harness already made up.

    You are going to like the system and its many toys, Tommy.


    Ed

  2. Remove Advertisements
    ModularFords.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #32
    Member Array 96slowbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Fenton, Mo
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Got the ls2 coils mocked up over the weekend. Pretty happy with the outcome. Debating how I want to wire it all up now. Thinking about dropping the motor to run all the new wires I'll have. I cut up a few factory harnesses at the junkyard over the weekend so I could add pins to the factory connectors to make it a clean swap.


    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  4. #33

    Default

    We had another member and I can't remember who anymore, either Redstanger or UltraSpeed, who did the same coil conversion, the same way (through the coil covers) and it worked out excellent for him. I am sure you will have a similar experience, Tommy. The through the coil cover approach eliminates the usual how do I go about mounting these things challenge.


    Ed

  5. Remove Advertisements
    ModularFords.com
    Advertisements
     

  6. #34
    Senior Member Array 04DeadShort's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Carrollton, GA
    Posts
    237

    Default

    I like that. Gonna be a clean setup.

    Sent from my SM-S767VL using Tapatalk

  7. #35
    Member Array 96slowbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Fenton, Mo
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Still working on this thing in my spare time. Got some coil wires made up using some stainless wire rope and plug wire ends. Crimped them on with some solder then heated up until the solder flowed and crimped again. Made for a very good connection. Also installed some ferrite rings to keep down on electric noise as much as possible. They worked out pretty good, coils sit as far down in the head as possible while making a solid connection with the plugs.
    Name:  20190326_200234.jpg
Views: 52
Size:  48.7 KBName:  20190324_163307.jpg
Views: 52
Size:  42.8 KBName:  20190324_163331.jpg
Views: 52
Size:  43.7 KB

    I had originally planned on installing the MS3pro underneath the rear seat and running the wires up to the passenger foot well to splice into the factory harness. That plan changed when I laid out the used harness and found it was going to be about 2 foot short. Rather than extending 60ish wires I called an audible and decided to try to mount it under the passenger seat. After a few iterations I ended up with a fuse block, relay and ms3 mounted to a kydex sheet I formed to the shape of the carpet. Still have to run most of the wires and smooth out the kydex a bit more but everything clears the bottom of the seat and I can easily access the fuse block and ms3pro connections. The fuse block is split into two sections a switched and constant hot so ill be using that for all of my current and future accessories rather than splicing into factory circuits.
    Name:  20190419_215838.jpg
Views: 52
Size:  74.5 KB
    Name:  20190419_220242.jpg
Views: 51
Size:  38.9 KB

    Still a ton of work to do but its coming along.

  8. #36

    Default

    Nice job, Tommy!

    Your attention to detail along with the fit and finish of your work is impressive. I like the way you did the coil wires, very robust.

    The coils are a bit like lightning strikes each time they fire. I don't know how much the ferrite sleeves will help with that noise. Usually they are used to dampen high frequency noise like on a USB disc drive cable. The power wires to the coils would benefit from the sleeves but you could also use the original dampers that Ford put on the OEM versions of the engine. Here is a pic of what I am talking about.

    Name:  RFI Capacitor.jpg
Views: 36
Size:  48.4 KB

    I suspect that and the ferrite sleeves on the coil power lines should do a pretty good job. I am not sure there is much to dampen the lightning bolt effect each time one of those coils fire.


    Ed
    Last edited by eschaider; 05-02-2019 at 03:11 PM. Reason: Fixed Broken Pic Link

  9. #37
    Member Array 96slowbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Fenton, Mo
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Got the ls2 coils in addition to a few other things all wired up. Ended up wiring them up in waste spark configuration just for simplicity sake. I shouldn't ever come close to reaching the dwell limits of these coils. Also made up some bushings to go into the factory knock sensor locations to hold some Bosch donut style knock sensors. I don't believe they are hitting the lower intake but I need to pull the alternator to verify tomorrow.
    Name:  20190423_210902.jpg
Views: 39
Size:  76.7 KB
    Name:  20190429_204814.jpg
Views: 39
Size:  75.2 KB

  10. #38
    Member Array 96slowbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Fenton, Mo
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Skipping a bunch of the boring stuff. The car is running as of last night on the ms3pro and ls2 coils. Blower was bypassed for first start just to limit the amount of things to go wrong buttoning up a few things now but it idles pretty good. Now to figure out this whole tuning thing and add some boost.

  11. #39

    Default

    Congrats on your perseverance and diligence in this build, Tommy — it is impressive!

    As you dig into the tuning side of the project use the self learning capability that Is built into the MS3Pro ECU. When you are in closed loop the ECU will adjust the trim tables to optimize the tune. When you look at the trim tables you can see how much the ECU has moved the tune around and use that as a guide to how to populate the main table. Successive iteration will bring the tune in nicely for you.

    BYW, I think you already know this but, at the risk of being pedantic, go gentle on the timing — a little goes a long way especially on lower octane fuels. If you are running E85 the timing can safely take a nice jump into a 22˚ to 24˚ window because of the 105 octane rating. Lesser fuels will likely have you down in a 15˚ to 18˚ timing window. A 15˚ to 18˚ timing window sounds wimpy but it is fairly aggressive for 91/93 octane fuels.

    With respect to the E85 fuel, if it is from a pump you need to be cautious because they can go as low as E40 and still sell it as E85. Your engine will know the difference in a NY minute. If you will be running E85 from the pump I would suggest getting one of the GM (or similar) ethanol monitoring gizmo's. The MS3Pro will support it and essentially give you a flex fuel capability. The important attribute here is it will compensate for low percentage ethanol (E40?) on the fly and save your engine form detonating itself to death. When the ECU 'covers' for bad E85 your performance predictably will be reduced.

    Be cautious about the dwell time on the coils. At one point I think you were toying with the idea of middle 4 msec dwell times. That type of dwell can overheat a coil, boiling the oil and bursting the plastic. The IGN1-A coils, which are a first cousin to the coils you are running, build significant heat when you go over a 3ms dwell time. I don't know with certainty but I suspect the truck coils behave similarly. Be prudent ...


    Ed

  12. #40
    Member Array 96slowbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Fenton, Mo
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Ed I am looking forward to getting it out on the road and watching the self tuning aspect do its thing. I believe I need to get the car to idle decently first from the reading I have done. There is a light surge at idle that I think I need to address before it's maiden voyage on the ms3.

    As far as timing goes its running around 10 degrees advance at idle conditions right now. I have a good amount of work to do on the ignition table however. The intent is to get it running good on 93 and then switch over to pump e85 and try my best at table blending to allow the car to switch back and forth if needed using the factory gm sensor I have wired in. The flex fuel capabilities was one of the bigger things that sold me to lean towards the ms3pro and I made sure to install this from the get go, it is currently plumbed into the return line in the passenger fender. The pump e85 closest to my house from what I have heard from the local ethanol cars is extremely good for pump and regularly tests higher than 85. In addition I have dual bosch knock sensors in the factory 96 teskid bosses that I am planning on trying to use for knock detection. There isn't as much info out there on this portion of the ms3 so it may take some trial and error to get dialed in but I am also excited to enable this feature.

    I have the cranking dwell on the d585 coils set at 4ms and running at 2ms currently. From the reading I had done the d585 ls2 truck coils were considered "smart" and have an auto fire feature built in that takes place after about 5ms of dwell. Either way I believe under dwelling these to be on the safe side of burning them up will still produce a stronger spark than that of the factory c.o.p setup in a waste spark configuration.

    Exciting stuff going on, very much looking forward to being able to tune and adjust my own car.

  13. #41

    Default

    It looks like you are dotting all the I's and crossing all the T's, Tommy. You probably have already attended to what I am about to show you but, on the outside chance you have not gotten to it yet here's a reminder or two.

    Under the General Settings drop down menu and in the of the Basic Load Settings section be sure to set your Stoiciometric AFR to 14.1 for an E-10 gasoline instead of 14.7 for an E-0 gasoline


    Name:  General Settings.png
Views: 13
Size:  144.3 KB

    14.7 is for E-0 gasoline and virtually all pump gas today is E-10 which has a Stoichiometric point of 14.1. The 14.1 stoich point will be important for the ECU's flex fuel calculations as well and the AFRs it computes for the varying degrees of ethanol in the fuel mix. Once you are using E-10 the maps for AFR will also change because of the new stoich point. I have a preference for using lambda instead of AFR because it is easier to richen a specific percentage amount than it would be using AFR. Here is an AFR table with lambda equivalents for various fuels. Notice the red boxes and warnings about going leaner. That is the line in the sand, so to speak, for E-10 is 11.2 in AFR terms and 0.8 in lambda terms.

    Name:  AFR table.jpg
Views: 12
Size:  78.4 KB

    A couple of additional thoughts, in closed loop the ECU will use the trim tables to adjust the running tune from what you called out to what the oxygen sensor tells it is correct. You can look at the trim table correction and use them to bring your base fuel map closer to the mark and then go out and road test again. Each time you do this you will get progressively closer to optimum — stop when you are satisfied or tired whichever comes first.

    Another helpful start up aid in laying out your fuel maps is to cheat and lift the maps Ford used in the 03/04 Cobra ECU. Try to get one with the AMZ1 or 2 strategy codes if you choose to do this. The AMZ1 and 2 strategies were the last fueling maps Ford did for the engine. This will shorten the time you spend trying to build your own maps.

    Very nice work so far, big congrats on the effort and results.

    Ed


    p.s. Almost forgot your idle problems could either be the IAC valve / setup or the cams you are running. There are analog and digital IAC valves. Make sure the one you are using matches how you set the MS3 software up — it can handle both types. Try to get the engine to idle correctly with the IAC disconnected and adjusting just the throttle stop to produce the idle you want. Once you have the idle then reconnect the IAC plug.

    If the idle problems are reversion related because of camshaft phasing induced overlap they will be more difficult to correct. The problem is that the reversion sends an air pulse backwards across the MAF double counting the air mass. When the air is drawn across the MAF one more time on the way into the engine it is counted a third time. The ECU sees three times the air it should and sends three times the fuel it should. The oxygen sensor(s) immediately see a rich engine and tell the ECU which pulls back on the fuel and you begin the maddening idle surge cycle.

    If that is the problem the best fix for it is to replace the MAF with a PRO-M 92. Here are two short 4 minute videos about why you want the PRO-M 92 MAF for one of our engines. I'll cheat a little bit and suggest that the wandering voltage signal in the first vid causes the ECU to chase the apparently changing air flow being reported by adjusting the injector pulse widths to compensate for the fuel volume the wandering voltage signal appears to say is necessary. This is obviously the wrong way to go about addressing the situation if the air mass being drawn in is not changing. Rather than review the video message here, it is better watch both vids (one follows the other). They do a much better job of telling the story., Click here => Pro-M Mass Air Meter Signal Quality Vid

    It turns out the second vid no longer follows the first vid so here is the link to vid #2, Click Here => Pro-M Mass Air Meter Signal Quality Vid Part 2
    Last edited by eschaider; 06-20-2019 at 02:41 PM. Reason: Added Postscript

  14. Remove Advertisements
    ModularFords.com
    Advertisements
     

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 3 First 123

Similar Threads

  1. Build in Process, JRgoffin's Build Thread has Been My Guide Thus Far
    By Jerry1200 in forum 2003 - 2004 SVT Mustang Cobra
    Replies: 70
    Last Post: 05-16-2019, 11:54 AM
  2. Novi 2000 for 86-93 mustang
    By strokher racing in forum Power Adders
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-13-2009, 07:32 PM
  3. considering a NOVI 2000
    By 99MustangGTMan in forum 1996 - 2004 Mustang GT
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-24-2008, 08:36 AM
  4. Novi 2000's...?
    By ITSTOCK in forum 2003 - 2004 SVT Mustang Cobra
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 12-08-2005, 09:27 PM
  5. NOVI 2000 for 99 GT
    By 35thGTvert in forum Turbo Modular
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-27-2005, 10:00 PM