Stock crank

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Stock crank

  1. #1

    Default Stock crank

    A few questions about our motors. Sorry if I beat a dead horse with any!
    1 factory crank is a forged Kellogg’s?
    2 HP capable w factory crank?
    3 what to do w factory rods and pistons? Trash can?
    4 HP capable with the WAP block?
    5 Blue Stripe 4 thread heads? Heli-coil to 9 threads?
    6 Do the 4 thread and 9 thread flow the same?
    7 has anybody installed a roots type supercharger on a Mach? I understand procharger or turbo is the typical build
    8 what parts would I need to install a kenne bell?

    Not or being a smart as, kinda know the answers but somebody more knowledgeable to chime in. I have a pretty nice na build, B.B./stroker. Spun a bearing north of 8800 . But! If ya wanna go fast NA, you will sacrifice comfort and accessories for weight reduction. Weighed 3200 with me in it. Anyway, I want some comfort back like ac, ps, factory seats etc etc so I am thinking the kenne bell route w my original aluminum wap block.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by gtw940; 02-02-2018 at 08:45 PM.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    ModularFords.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Senior Member Array smashedheadcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    South Weber, UT
    Posts
    3,913

    Default

    I am not the master at the Mach 1, but I can give you a little info to get you started.

    1 factory crank is a forged Kellogg’s? - If your mach was an original 5-speed car, you will have a forged crankshaft by Kellogg.

    2 HP capable w factory crank? - I believe John Mihovetz went 6's with this piece. Obviously, some work was done to get it there, but the short answer is, it is very strong.

    3 what to do w factory rods and pistons? Trash can? - For performance based stuff, not many will have much use for these components. However, it may be worth your time to post them up for sale for someone on a budget. Just don't expect much out of them.

    4 HP capable with the WAP block? - I do not really know the answer to this one. A long time ago, a big time mod motor racer broke one or two of them in pretty impressive fashion and that sort of put a black eye on this block for the past 10-15 years. I believe he was in the 700-800hp range when they let go. I honestly think that with today's techniques and tuning, they could probably hold up well as long as you stay in the 3 digit power range.

    5 Blue Stripe 4 thread heads? Heli-coil to 9 threads? - I don't think the blue stripe means anything. I know one of the old Saturday morning car shows said that if you had blue on the heads, your cobra had "the fix" for the dreaded head tick. What you'll want to do is simply look at the casting numbers on your heads. Hop on Joe's site and enjoy: http://www.terminator-cobra.com/castings.htm

    6 Do the 4 thread and 9 thread flow the same? - If they are the same casting, yes.

    7 has anybody installed a roots type supercharger on a Mach? I understand procharger or turbo is the typical build - There are definitely people that have gone the route you mentioned, but most do not. I believe one of the main reasons for this is simply the shaker hood. A big roots type blower may introduce some issues with shaker hood fitment. You should be able to search for issues on this subject and find all you need.

    8 what parts would I need to install a kenne bell? - KB used to sell a kit, but I think they pulled it when ford stopped producing the lower intake for the 03 cobra. You'd have to get it used. I am sure you could get your hands on the instructions for an old Mach 1 kit by reaching out to KB. Their instructions are traditionally quite good.

  4. #3

    Default

    Thx for the reply Josh! In my first post I referenced my bb/stroker, it is my current engine so its the boss50 iron block. I pulled my original WAP block and 4thread heads out of storage a couple weeks ago and had the cylinders honed and crank polished. Have been gathering some Terminator parts, heat exchanger, intercooler, degas, pump, intake. Probably pull the trigger on a whipple soon but I cant decide which block would be better to do this build with for example...Boss50 iron block that's .020 over or the factory WAP block. Looks real thin between bores on the boss block and the WAP aint iron!

  5. Remove Advertisements
    ModularFords.com
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gtw940 View Post
    Thx for the reply Josh! In my first post I referenced my bb/stroker, it is my current engine so its the boss50 iron block. I pulled my original WAP block and 4thread heads out of storage a couple weeks ago and had the cylinders honed and crank polished. Have been gathering some Terminator parts, heat exchanger, intercooler, degas, pump, intake. Probably pull the trigger on a whipple soon but I cant decide which block would be better to do this build with for example...Boss50 iron block that's .020 over or the factory WAP block. Looks real thin between bores on the boss block and the WAP aint iron!

    All the guidance Josh gave you is spot on.

    You would be better off not using the big bore boss block. The block performs well in n/a form but experiences head gasket leakage in supercharged trim. The leakage, not surprisingly, is across those thin webs between bores. Some of the guys on the site here have used figure 8 stainless o-rings around two bores and dead soft copper head gaskets with good success. That particular mod works better on a race engine than on a street driven vehicle.

    A standard bore or slight (0.001 to 0.005") overbore is the preferred bore size for blown applications. Check out the Gibtec piston articles on the site. Gibtec will make pistons in 0.001" increments so any bore size is possible. Remember smaller is better.

    You should convert your 4 thread heads to 9 thread heads. The Ford recommended (and best) conversion kit is the Lock-N-Stitch method. Search on Lock-N-Stitch on the site here and you will come up with some good info and reading material.

    Like Josh said the WAP blocks got some bad ink many years ago — some say for good reason. The failures were likely as much because of a lack of blown engine knowledge as poor design back in those days, just like Josh suggested. In the FWIW bucket you can get a good Teksid block for around $400 delivered to your door. They are generally considered stronger than the WAP generation blocks and have been used (with mods) in that same 6 second and now 5 second car of Mihovitz. They are an easy, inexpensive, robust block selection. In the same strength category (some say even better) is the Nemak Aluminator block used in the 3V Mustang GT's from about 2005 to 2010 and some other production cars also.


    Ed

  7. #5
    Senior Member Array painlessauto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Commerce Twp, MI
    Posts
    162

    Default

    I stand behind Ed's reasoning in regards to the boss block under boost. My brother built a boss block stroker with terminator heads. Topped it off with a 4.0 whipple on e85 and he lifted the heads the first time getting on the expressway. He immediately parted it out and now has a slight overbore 5.4 4v build with twin Precision 67 turbos.

    Boss and boost is a no-go...

    Lock-n-stitch inserts are very nice and the only insert I would ever install. I ran lock-n-stitch inserts in every plug hole on my last 2V build. Ran those heads for years without any insert issues.

    Matt
    Last edited by painlessauto; 02-18-2018 at 10:16 PM.

  8. #6

    Default

    I disagree with the Boss Block and boost. I've ran that block into the mid 20's of boost with zero issues. When going into the high 20's and 30 psi of boost, I utilize the figure 8 o-ring method to seal the heads, but I've never had an issue using MLS gaskets or Titan SCE gaskets with no Oring involved. I don't run a PD blower, so the hit isn't as hard, so that might be why my Boss builds have survived without incident and I've been using this block since it made it's debut and have built several of them in various forms. The only issues I've had was with the machine work on the new block, but never any issues after being built.

  9. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eschaider View Post
    ... Some of the guys on the site here have used figure 8 stainless o-rings around two bores and dead soft copper head gaskets with good success. That particular mod works better on a race engine than on a street driven vehicle. ...

    Ed
    Quote Originally Posted by Helomech74 View Post
    I disagree with the Boss Block and boost. I've ran that block into the mid 20's of boost with zero issues. When going into the high 20's and 30 psi of boost, I utilize the figure 8 o-ring method to seal the heads, but I've never had an issue using MLS gaskets or Titan SCE gaskets with no Oring involved. I don't run a PD blower, so the hit isn't as hard, so that might be why my Boss builds have survived without incident and I've been using this block since it made it's debut and have built several of them in various forms. The only issues I've had was with the machine work on the new block, but never any issues after being built.
    We are actually on the same page Jim.

    You probably missed my figure 8 o-ring commentary. That is the best way to seal one of the big bore blocks up that I am aware of. Your personal experience is a testimony to how well the dead soft copper gaskets, stainless o-ring and receiver grooves actually work. I don't recall clearly any more but I seem to remember you used a corresponding receive groove in the top of the block. Is my memory failing me or did you prep the block with a figure 8 receiver groove also?

    While MLS gaskets can be made to work with the o-ringed heads, I have a bias for the copper because of the malleability of the gasket material and the improved heat transfer characteristics of copper not mention the reusability of the gaskets and of course the seal. AJ made a switch to copper and the stainless o-rings after he pushed an MLS gasket out around 28 psi. Your observation about the more civilized rise in boost with a centri vs the instant on characteristics of the PD design, I am certain, contributed to his gasket failure. Two other contributing factors were the fact that the compression was 11:1 and the engine got pulled down in the midrange, I believe because of an early shift.

    AJ's new build went higher in the compression department and also went the copper head gasket route using receiver grooves and stainless o-rings. For those reading this thread and considering that solution you will need to either have an iron block or resleeve a Teksid block with flanged aftermarket sleeves like LA Sleeve or Darton offer in order to accommodate the receiver groove. You can not put a receiver groove into an aluminum block deck and have it work / live.


    Ed

  10. #8

    Default

    OK, so lets throw a proposed scenario out there. boss block, .020 over, 23cc dish about 9:1, O-rings in the block, whipple at 18lbs and low 20s max just for the occasional pass.
    Thx for the repiles

  11. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gtw940 View Post
    OK, so lets throw a proposed scenario out there. boss block, .020 over, 23cc dish about 9:1, O-rings in the block, whipple at 18lbs and low 20s max just for the occasional pass.
    Thx for the repiles
    If that is what you want then you should absolutely build it and keep us posted both on your progress and also how it performs for you once you have completed the project. Just because a number of us have suggested there might be a better way to approach the engine configuration does not mean you could not do things differently and have a different outcome.

    We would actually be quite interested to see the differences you choose for your build and also how that engine configuration works out for you.


    Ed

  12. #10

    Default

    Its a long story but the .020 over boss block is pretty much what I am stuck with as it already has a set of diamonds in it, as far my opinion goes its junk at 20over especially with 8 cc domes that will bring it to about 13.5:1. When i tore it down, the hole for #8 (spun the bearing on 8)did not look bad at all BUT I think there was some leakage between cylinders as evidenced by the thinnest part of the head gasket had lost its copperkote and paint(cometics). So I don't think 13.5:1 is going to work any better than trying to throw some boost at it. Thinking that O rings could be the saving grace or just start with a new boss block. its a long story and just glad to have my engine back from a bad situation. Leaning towards just putting it back na like it was but...I could take the crank and rods and use the wap block, just have to get new pistons and not go crazy on boost if I go that route.
    Now then lets reason this out so I will understand. Race engines that see boost in the upper 20s to 30 or so need the o-ring to seal due to the increased pressure...OK why would it not seal just as well at a lower range of boost on the street with occasional outings to the track?
    As far as the bad situation, their chickens came home to roost so no need to say anything else about that.

  13. #11

    Default

    While you have received some good guidance from a number of knowledgeable folks on the site here, there is no substitute for first hand experience. Moreover, I can also appreciate your desire for increased clarity. My suggestion would be to build the engine the way you want to in order to address that need to know. You will be able to hit 30 psi fairly easily with a compressor in the mid 3 to 4 liter range from either KB or Whipple.

    Bolt that engine together, take it to the dyno and turn up the wick. In a matter of moments you will know with absolute certainty what the story really is. There is a sort of beauty to absolute certainty and after the dyno session that is exactly what you will have. Can't ask for much more than that now, can you?


    Ed

  14. #12

    Default

    I asked the questions, information iwas provided, I processed that and made my decisions from that. gonna O ring it and put a whipple on it! Have been out of this for awhile so a lot is just refreshing the memory though alot has changed. Not being crass nor do I mean any offense to people that help. Believe me, any opinion given is taken in.

  15. Remove Advertisements
    ModularFords.com
    Advertisements
     

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. 4.6l Stock Crank
    By theweiser1 in forum Engine Parts
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-13-2010, 07:26 AM
  2. 3V Stock Crank
    By mauiboy in forum 2005 - 2010 Mustang GT
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 05-18-2009, 11:47 PM
  3. f/s stock GT crank
    By DarkBlue02 in forum Engine Parts
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-17-2009, 08:44 AM
  4. Stock 01 Crank HP???
    By Brutus4.6 in forum 1996 - 2004 Mustang GT
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-22-2006, 03:00 PM
  5. stock crank
    By phils04gt in forum 1996 - 2004 Mustang GT
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-09-2005, 05:21 PM