My Twin Turbo Build - Page 3

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  1. #31

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    Good to hear Jonathan!

    Remember the turbo sizing might limit you in terms of total air mass flow to the engine. I've been promising myself I would do a turbo sizing exercise for you but have not taken the time to sit down and work through it — lazy, my apologies. I'm airborne this weekend so I'll spend some seat time on the issue for you.


    Ed

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  3. #32
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    Thank Ed that would be great! in the mean time ill do the best with what I have..."meanwhile i was thinking" might be time to build my next engine, set of LA sleeves in a teksid block and some of those Gibtec pistons, re sized turbos maybe switch to Methanol. $$

    still running COP's at the moment but will upgrade to the Mercury Marine coils which i have already, will need custom length plug wires with long boots, any idea where i can buy them?
    thanks Jonathan

  4. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt287 View Post
    Thank Ed that would be great! in the mean time ill do the best with what I have..."meanwhile i was thinking" might be time to build my next engine, set of LA sleeves in a teksid block and some of those Gibtec pistons, re sized turbos maybe switch to Methanol. $$

    still running COP's at the moment but will upgrade to the Mercury Marine coils which i have already, will need custom length plug wires with long boots, any idea where i can buy them?
    thanks Jonathan
    For a race only application the methanol is very likely the finest racing fuel we have available to us both in terms of it's anti-knock qualities and also it's power production. For a street driven vehicle I would fall back a notch to an e85/e100 type fuel for its more forgiving relationship with the rest of the fuel system components.

    The LA Sleeves approach to the block prep is probably as good as it gets for the Teksid class blocks, Jonathan. There is a considerable amount of capability associated with that approach in terms of maintaining good cylinder geometry and serviceability.

    The Mercury Marine IGN1-A coils are smart coils and will not work with a stock ECU. I can't recall but I want to say you are using a FAST ECU. If that is true or if you are using one of the many other aftermarket ECUs they typically have built in support for the IGN1-A coils, the transition should be easy, straight forward and essentially a plug and play experience.

    It took me a while to find my plug wires. I wanted to use MSD Hemi wires like on the blown alcohol and T/F engines but the end of the plug wire is just a smidge too bid to fit into the plug well on our heads. As luck would have it, MSD made a special set of the same wires for the Dodge and Ford pro stock engines that also use the small diameter plug wells like we have on the Modmotor. They are the cat's meow for plugs wires. Here is a link to them at Jegs, => P/S Hemi Plug Wires.

    The wires are 8.5mm and have excellent hardware built in for attachment and removal. Everything is a snap together, slip together or screw together type of assembly. The only electrical work needed is the trimming to length and attachment of the coil side electrical connector which is a crimping event I guarantee you will love them — and they look awesome on the engine.

    I just got an email from Jegs this morning advising this was the last day of a $30 rebate they were offering on purchases. If you miss the rebate, hold your fire because there is still the Thanksgiving Black Friday sale and the year end inventory clearance sale to come.


    Ed
    Last edited by eschaider; 11-09-2018 at 08:15 PM. Reason: Spelling & Grammar

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  6. #34
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    Hi Ed, I have the Mercury Marine IGN1-A coils on hand, Im running Megasquirt MS3 Pro ECU currently im using Quadspark coil drivers to power my COP's but yes my MS3 will drive the smart coils directly

    Wow those MSD plug wires are great! I will order a set...good tip on the sales but that probably won't fit in with my shipping / travel schedules.
    As for mounting the coils i was thinking to make a tray that fits in the Valley looks clean but could be a pain to service or alternatively mount the on the firewall...not sure the wires will be ling enough for that.

    finally the car is complete again and we also fixed a lot of nuisance problems we had louvered hood and Air intakes work well.
    Attachment 169459
    Attachment 169457
    Attachment 169461
    Attachment 169463
    Attachment 169465

    Jonathan

  7. #35

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    A number of guys have mounted the coils in the valley under the manifold on turbo builds, Jonathan. It makes for a very clean look. You want to be sensitive to over heating the coils, however. The greater the dwell time you use (more coil output) the hotter the coils will run. It is possible to kill a coil or even have it pop from the internal oil boiling. My first choice would to pick a cooler location with some type of air movement to aid in cooling.


    Ed

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    thanks ED im looking at all options for mounting the coils...in the mean time i got my car tuned and spent some time at the track.
    i don't have HP numbers as the dyno was acting up but i can tell you the car is Awesome!! it now has loads of power and will spoke the tires in a heartbeat so now i have some chassis tuning to do . once i get it to stick it goes as straight as an arrow I believe we are in Mid 8"S its been 2 years since the car first ran so lots of hard work to make it run properly.

  9. #37

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    That's great to hear Jonathan!

    What do you attribute the new found power to?


    Ed

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    Hi Ed think the Cam Phasing played a good part in torque production, also we were able to lean out the fuel map and get the water Meth working.
    with 20PSI boost and with water meth activated have about 120deg intake temp or less so not so bad...i will look at ways to re install the intercooler but lack of space is an issue.

    the Water meth is behaving like on or off even though i have it connected via PWM with a fan control type relay...so i would like to improve that although it does not matter so much for a drag car.
    My oil pressure is great idles at 35-40 psi hot and just a few hundred rpm takes it to 50 or better, cold starts are 75PSI ..
    Im now using full flow filters.

    My main issue now is to work on my Launch...my problem before was that i could barely spin the tires now i have the opposite (good problem !
    I was only using sportsman Pro tires not slicks

    It walks too the right so need to adjust my rear suspension links.

    my best launch was only 3000 rpm on transbrake (4500 stall) at about 50%TPS any more just turned the tires to smoke....so new driver strategies also, My MS3 pro has traction control and i have incorporated from and rear VSS so i may look at that.

    In the mean time Im super happy but need to go back to work now.

    jonathan
    Last edited by Thunderbolt287; 11-16-2018 at 05:55 PM. Reason: spelling

  11. #39

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    I hear you Jonathan

    Congratulations on the new found power. Sounds like it's time for new shoes for your little monster.

    Play safe ...


    Ed

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    Hi Guys well I’m having trouble, a couple of weeks ago we dyno the car by professional tuner and then track tested it and it was going very well.

    The car sat in my shop and had some minor adjustments done to it but nothing to do with the fuel map or tune.

    Today back at the track it was sluggish and seemed very rich ..we compared the tune to how it was when it ran well and it was identical!

    The spark plugs were black with soot . Changed to new plugs no help, re loaded the exact tune that was already there and it seemed much the same.... gave up and drove it to the the trailer, when I approached the trailer it magically began to run much better !

    It was still a little rich and I was able to tune most of it out.

    This scenario has happened before ... runs well then shut down have lunch then after lunch seems to have gone rich.

    I’m running an MS3 pro, could it be something to do with the keep alive battery in the ecu.

    I’m wondering if I should bite the bullet and change to a different ECU, any opinions on the various brands.

    Thanks Jonathan

  13. #41

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    Might be the battery, Jonathan but might also be a poor electrical connection. It sounds like there is some Sherlock Holmes work in your near future. Running bad then good and back and forth on the same tune is not the tune it is something in the fuel management system probably power or sensor related.

    Ed

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    Thanks Ed,
    I’m wondering if the AFR sensor is bad and in close loop it’s trimming fuel map Rich to compensate for a false reading..is that logical ?

    Thanks Jonathan

  15. #43

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    I was thinking sensor failure, Jonathan and that is the sensor I had my mind's eye on. The other possibility could be a bad electrical connection between the (a) sensor and the ECU.

    One sensor brand is very attractive because it does not fade away as it fails it just stops working altogether. If my memory is correct that is the NGK wideband. The reason it is nice is it eliminates any confusion about what is going wrong.


    Ed
    Last edited by eschaider; 12-08-2018 at 12:08 AM. Reason: Spelling & Grammar

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    Hi Ed as I can see the only sensor that my MS3 pro listens to is the Wideband O2 and MAP unfortunately the MS3 pro is not capable of accepting Wide band data so I had to use the LC2 wide band converter with a Bosch probe.

    I’m on my second LC2 first one failed completely and I installed a new one along with a new probe about a year ago.
    Jonathan

  17. #45
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    hi Guys happy new year!

    well I've been suer busy since November and have made some mods to my Nash...8 new mercury marine IGN1A coils along with the MSD 8.5mm plug wires and man what a difference!! no longer hard to start when hot and idle speed increased 300 RPM.
    previously i had my MS3Pro driving two Quadspark coil driver units that fired MSD COPs and the quad sparks are a weak link i have had several failures.

    I also installed a New AFR system ..Bellenger V500 with an NTK calibration grade sensor..it works beautifully and we are very happy.

    so anyhow we went to the track for our first race of the season and had an alternator fail so by the time we fixed that and got to practice / qualifying it was getting late we did 4 passes in mid tens which lots of capacity to go faster but on the last one I heard a POP at 7500 rpm and lost power...limped back to pits and the engine stopped and would not re start.

    all spark plugs were fine with no damage but Cyls 2 and 3 seemed to lack compression .. pulled the valve cover and found that the secondary chain was broken and the drive sprocket was in pieces...im sure that we have some bent valves but I'm a bit surprised that this has happened This was an MMR adjustable complete setup with primary and secondary gears chains and guides etc I thought they were forged?

    we were extremely meticulous the cam and drive installation so i don't believe it was an installation error...but I have not had a chance for a complete inspection yet.

    so Im now in the market to buy a complete new chain and sprocket set up for my 4.6 4V teksid, i saw ED's Chain article recently.... so opinions on what to buy and where please.

    thanks Jonathan

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