Help with my turbo build.

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  1. #1

    Default Help with my turbo build.

    So heres a complete breakdown of the whole 4.6 build I have going on at the moment. Its a 95 Teksid block, Kellogg crank, Scat rods, Diamond pistons (likely to change), B heads, 97 Cobra intake and throttle body, 2200 High impeadance injectors, 400 lph in-tank Walbro with Aeromotive Eliminator on frame activated at 8 lbs on E85. The Block will get ARP studs top and bottom if needed along with a line hone, decking, and Torque plate hone to keep bore size as close to stock as possible ( the reason pistons are likely to change).

    Now for the turbo stuff. I have now in my garage a Bullseye S476 Ultra street class legal single available to use OR two S366 billet wheel twins that will be coming off my Camaro once my Mustang is ready for the turbos should I go that route. The Mustang should end up around 2600 lbs ish and I'd like to have enough power to go 8.0's to high 7's. Being new to Mod motors I'm not so sure how to size the exhaust wheels as far as what works well, is to small, is to big etc. Trans hasn't been bought yet so I can go TH400 or Glide, doesn't really matter to me which one.

    Thanks for the replies guys.
    Dan

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  3. #2

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    Dan,

    The "B" head have been the go to heads for max performance builds for a number of decades. As Ford reintroduced boost friendly versions of the '00R heads the newer heads have become the more desirable choice. Ford has continuously worked on the port shape and more importantly they have added material to the casting to better withstand the boosted environment. A GT500 head will decidedly outlive the traditional "B" head while producing as much or more power throughout the engine operating range. If you have not already sunk money onto the "B" head alternative you will be well served by the GT500 heads.

    BTW if the OEM crank spins freely in the block do not get the mains align honed. When something is not broke and you go about fixing it, it brings you bad karma. Cranks that spin freely in OEM blocks do not need to have their block align honed. There will be plenty of other places to spend your hard earned dollars.


    Ed

  4. #3

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    Even if I do ARP main studs, leave the mains alone? Only thing I have done with the B heads is buy a intake manifold. I wasn't planning to pump a lot of money into the heads. Pretty much run stock cams and get it up to speed and see where it is power wise and et wise. Side note, do 4v heads fir on a 2v block? obviously change the front cover to match.

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  6. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxandthefish View Post
    Even if I do ARP main studs, leave the mains alone?
    It is unusual to find the use of ARP Main Studs change the main tunnel alignment. The easiest way to check is put a set of bearings in, oil them up, lay a crank in and torque the caps. While you are torquing the caps it is normal for the crank to not spin until the last cap is torqued. Once the last cap is torqued the crank should easily spin with one finger pushing on a counterweight.

    When you do this test there is a phenomena called stiction. Stiction is the breakaway torque required to initially begin rotating the crank. It is a bit higher than the torque required to maintain rotation once the stiction is overcome. The torque you are looking to sense / measure is the torque required to maintain rotation once the stiction is overcome. It literally is the effort required by one finger to rotate the crank. Sounds confusing but it will be immediately apparent once you do the test.

    If the crank / block pass the test you do not want to align hone the block.



    Quote Originally Posted by Foxandthefish View Post
    Only thing I have done with the B heads is buy a intake manifold. I wasn't planning to pump a lot of money into the heads. Pretty much run stock cams and get it up to speed and see where it is power wise and et wise.
    Stock heads, especially the "B" heads require lots of short side radius work to transform into a suitable race head. This work does not come inexpensively unless you are a head porter and understand what to do. If you run "B" heads in a race engine you will need a fabricated intake manifold. The price tase on those usually runs un the ~$3,000 range. As luck would have it you need a similar style manifold for the GT500 heads and it runs about the same price. It is entirely possible that you can find a used manifold and save a thousand dollars or so.

    I would suggest you replace the stock cams for the usage you are anticipating. They are unusually unstuitabe for your application. There are two sources I highly recommend for camshafts. One Is Michael Rauscher who owns and operates L&M Engines (<= clickable) and the other is John Mihovitz who owns and operates Accufab (<= clickable). Both of these men are simply as good as it gets when you are building these engines.



    Quote Originally Posted by Foxandthefish View Post
    Side note, do 4v heads fir on a 2v block? obviously change the front cover to match.
    They do and you are right about the timing cover.


    Closing thoughts:

    It sounds like you are trying to test the water with your project to see if you like the temperature — that's sort of like getting half pregnant. There is no good way to test the water with these engines. You either build a race motor or you build a street motor. If you build a street motor and go racing it will be much more expensive that if you built a race motor to start with, which is not cheap.

    If you build a race motor to play with on the street you will be singularly unhappy and will have spent a mountain of cash to discover this. If you are trying to test the water and spend a little cash to see what happens I recommend you use a different engine platform — you will be much happier. These engines are neither easy nor inexpensive to build into race engines. When you do them correctly however the power output is way beyond anything you ever imagined.


    Ed

  7. #5

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    Yes Im testing the waters in a sense, but only due lack of knowledge. My brain has been filled with LS stuff for the last 6 years and two cars here lately have caught my eyes. John Mihovitz, and David Farlow's cars and why I'd rather go mod motor instead of just the popular LS swap. I want to build this 4 valve and I don't mind changing heads for the newer ones or having these ported to correct the short side and exhaust from what I understand. I don't mind having the machine work done if needed or buying the correct parts, just need some help in making sure it not a mixture of mismatched parts or bad part.

  8. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxandthefish View Post
    Yes Im testing the waters in a sense, but only due lack of knowledge. My brain has been filled with LS stuff for the last 6 years and two cars here lately have caught my eyes. John Mihovitz, and David Farlow's cars and why I'd rather go mod motor instead of just the popular LS swap. I want to build this 4 valve and I don't mind changing heads for the newer ones or having these ported to correct the short side and exhaust from what I understand. I don't mind having the machine work done if needed or buying the correct parts, just need some help in making sure it not a mixture of mismatched parts or bad part.

    I understand where you are coming from, Dan but just in case I had to provide the admonition. To perform at the level of Mihovitz or Farlow you are going to spend somewhere between $15K and $20K dollars to build the basic engine. Rather than spending the money and then undertaking the assembly effort you would be dollars ahead of the game by just buying an engine from Michael or John. Once you have an engine properly configured and built the maintenance is a pretty straight forward event.

    If it would help to start the conversations with either Michael or John please free to say you were talking to me and I pointed you at them for your engine build. In general John will not use parts you supply and prefers to use only parts he provides. This is his way of being certain of the quality of the components in his engine build. Michael on the other hand will use good components you supply and advise you if a particular component does not measure up. Both guys have what I call a Sgt. Joe Friday, Streets of San Francisco bedside manner — which might feel a bit gruff but, it is also going to be spot on.

    Before you discount this approach out of hand, remember these engines are a very different rodeo than their pushrod counterparts you will likely compete with. Additionally these engines can be ka-boomed with impressive carnage if you approach the build the wrong way. Pay the money, buy the experience. You will be miles ahead and importantly, glad you did. You can easily maintain the engine and later build your own replicas as you require them.


    Ed
    Last edited by eschaider; 02-19-2019 at 07:50 PM. Reason: Spelling & Grammar

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