MS3Pro Terminator Version Arrives!! - Page 3

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  1. #31

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    I would consider putting some of the little zip ties on the tee connections and at the ecu on the vacuum/boost signal line.
    If you haven’t already that is.

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  3. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4sdvenom View Post
    I would consider putting some of the little zip ties on the tee connections and at the ecu on the vacuum/boost signal line.
    If you haven’t already that is.
    I agree. It's little things like this that can pop up and really screw with your mind if a hose comes off. Every tee on my car gets a wire tie b/c I have experienced them coming off before. When running 32psi-35psi+ you get to see the affects of ignoring the little things..

    ks

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array GodStang's Avatar
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    Good call! I will zip tie them tomorrow. Everything is still off. Is that T behind the glovebox good for the MAP?


    Quote Originally Posted by 4sdvenom View Post
    I would consider putting some of the little zip ties on the tee connections and at the ecu on the vacuum/boost signal line.
    If you haven’t already that is.
    Quote Originally Posted by KEVINS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 4sdvenom View Post
    I would consider putting some of the little zip ties on the tee connections and at the ecu on the vacuum/boost signal line.
    If you haven’t already that is.
    I agree. It's little things like this that can pop up and really screw with your mind if a hose comes off. Every tee on my car gets a wire tie b/c I have experienced them coming off before. When running 32psi-35psi+ you get to see the affects of ignoring the little things..

    ks

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  6. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by GodStang View Post
    So I got started on it. Hardest part was the install video from other thread said white bracket was 5mm, and mine was 7/32”. No biggy just my only issue.

    Attachment 170495

    Attachment 170497

    I attached the vacuum line for the MAP to this vacuum hose behind the glovebox.

    Attachment 170499


    Finally got all plugged back in and will start tuning tomorrow as I am now in the deer stand after Watching the gamecocks beat UGA!

    Attachment 170501
    that connection for a map sensor is a no go. the hvac controls are behind a checkvalve and have a resivoir, definately not a representation of manifold pressure

  7. #35
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    Is that not the stock boost gauge line? It comes from my blower.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashford View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GodStang View Post
    So I got started on it. Hardest part was the install video from other thread said white bracket was 5mm, and mine was 7/32”. No biggy just my only issue.

    Attachment 170495

    Attachment 170497

    I attached the vacuum line for the MAP to this vacuum hose behind the glovebox.

    Attachment 170499


    Finally got all plugged back in and will start tuning tomorrow as I am now in the deer stand after Watching the gamecocks beat UGA!

    Attachment 170501
    that connection for a map sensor is a no go. the hvac controls are behind a checkvalve and have a resivoir, definately not a representation of manifold pressure

  8. #36

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    If that line is in fact sourced after an hvac check valve, Josh, then Ashford is spot on. If it is being sourced off your intake, just make sure you are getting it from a location that is post rotor pack and not pre rotor pack and you should be good to go.


    Ed

  9. #37
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    I will recheck but should be stock boost Gauge line:

    https://www.svtperformance.com/threa...-gauge.980351/



    Quote Originally Posted by eschaider View Post
    If that line is in fact sourced after an hvac check valve, Josh, then Ashford is spot on. If it is being sourced off your intake, just make sure you are getting it from a location that is post rotor pack and not pre rotor pack and you should be good to go.


    Ed

  10. #38

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    If it is stock boost gauge line then you are obviously good to go.



    Ed

  11. #39
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    So once I read the cobra install instructions that is exactly where it was supposed to be plugged in. On a side note at some point between the 7 different superchargers I hooked my stock boost gauge up to the a/c vacuum line... fixed it today.

    Began trying to tune it to be able to start it and a no go. I think it has to do with my return style system.


    Quote Originally Posted by eschaider View Post
    If it is stock boost gauge line then you are obviously good to go.



    Ed

  12. #40

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    The base tune is expecting to find a stock returnless fuel system, Josh. You will have to go into the tune and modify it for a return style fuel system.

    Here is a pic from the TunerStudio s/w that might help;

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    In this pic the fuel pump mode is set to closed loop PWM (pulse width modulation) which would be correct for a returnless fuel system using an FRPS. You want to click on the popdown menu and select On/Off. Clicking on the question mark in front of fuel pump mode will give a summary description. The more complete description is in the MS3Pro Manual either the Ultimate version or the PnP version although I think the Ultimate version might be more descriptive and definitely worth a read before modifying the settings.

    You will find the Fuel Pump and Pressure Control screen under the Fuel Settings button at the top of the screen.


    Ed

  13. #41
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    Thanks Ed. Also are we supposed to have the lite version or the full version of Tuner Studio? Also 9.8:1 for E85? Also my FPR is set to 50psi do I set that for Static/Target Rail Differentail PRessure (PSI-g)?

  14. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by GodStang View Post
    Thanks Ed. Also are we supposed to have the lite version or the full version of Tuner Studio? Also 9.8:1 for E85? Also my FPR is set to 50psi do I set that for Static/Target Rail Differentail PRessure (PSI-g)?

    I am not certain about the TunerStudio version status but this is what I suspect. The lite version is a freebee and other than registration has no other licensing requirements I am aware of. The Serial number of your MS3Pro PnP that is on the card in the packaging is, as I understand it, the license upgrade to the TunerStudio MS version of the software. The TunerStudio MS Ultra version of the software requires the purchase of a $44.95 upgrade license — I believe.

    The reason I am sketchy on the licensing is that I licensed the TunerStudio software about a year ago as I was trying to evaluate whether or not I would get one of the MS3Pro Ultimate boxes back then. After I licensed the MS version I later decided to upgrade to the MS Ultra version. As a result I did not attempt to relicense the s/w a second time, partly because I did not need to and partly because I was concerned about overwriting the tune file code I had already crafted. Here is a link to the feature sets for each of the three versions of TunerStudio, Feature comparison link => TunerStudio Feature Sets. I wanted the integrated datalog viewing, playback, Tuning and Dyno View design tools et. al. so the $44.95 upgrade price was a small price to pay.

    Below is a screen shot of page three of the next release of my Fuel System Calculator. This is modified from the last release I posted on the ModFords site. The modifications primarily were the elimination of a rounding error in the math and a more complete table of fuel system conversion factors on page 4 along with a more realistic reference to the correct safe lambda or AFR settings you should target (for supercharged engines) as opposed to the usual run of the mill n/a representations.

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    When you look at the chart, the lambda 1.0 row is the actual Stoichiometric point for the different fuels. For a long time everyone used 14.7 for pump gas even though it had 10% ethanol. The correct stoich point for E-10 is 14.08 AFR. The result was to run the engine unnecessarily lean sneaking up on incipient detonation that, while undetectable to the human ear, over time would produce pistons that looked like this,

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    This piston came out of Jeff's (Edmisten1) engine. When he took it down for freshening it was not even smoking but obviously considerable damage had been done to the piston(s). In the FWIW bucket the engine was tuned by one of the big name tuners, at the time, (who will remain nameless) and was supposed to be a "safe" tune — so much for safety ...

    Gasoline fueled engines with 15% or less ethanol are typically safe (and produce excellent power) at 0.8 lambda or slightly richer. When you go to E-85 the Stoich point moves from 14.08 AFR to a 9.765 number and the safe threshold slips down 0.05 lambda to 0.75 lambda or an AFR of 7.32.

    When using either of the alcohols (ethanol or methanol) it is worthwhile remembering they both have exceptionally high latent heat of evaporation numbers, which cools the incoming charge, and also very high octane ratings (~105) which is an excellent detonation suppressant. Additionally their peak cylinder pressures are minimally reduced by going slightly rich in the tune. The slightly rich condition aids in cooling but also effectively eliminates any but the most egregious faux paux producing a detonation event. BTW this is one of the reasons why the engine's appetite for fuel goes up so substantially when switching to either of the alcohol based fuels.

    Although you could get by with less injector I would encourage you to use the Bosch or Siemans Deka 2200 cc/min injectors. Both have excellent idle qualities and will produce a 50% or so duty cycle so your injectors are essentially taking a walk in the park at almost any power level you will see on ethanol. Methanol is different it will require two 2200 cc/min injectors per port but you are not going there.

    I am essentially finished with the new generation of the calculator. If you want to fiddle with it PM me an email address an I will send you a copy. It should be 99% probably higher but I haven't finished all the stress testing to be able to say with certainty.

    With respect to your system's base fuel pressure you should either update the tune file for a 50 psi base fuel system pressure or better, if you go to the 2200 cc/min injectors you can easily go back to Ford's 39.15 psi target and still have outrageous head room in terms of injector flow capacity. In the FWIW bucket the guys at South Bay injectors have excellent pricing on the 2200 cc injectors and they are easy to work with. Here is a link to the 2200 cc/min part => 2200 cc/min 03/04 Cobra Injectors. They are priced at or below what most 1600 cc injectors are priced at. Best part is they are likely the last set of injectors you will ever need.

    One of the other nice things about the 39/40 psi OEM injector base pressure is it is much easier on the pumps and your electrical system. The higher base fuel pressures draw more amperage, use up the pumps faster and in general if you don't need it for flow capacity bring nothing positive to the table. Years ago we used to use higher base fuel pressures to squeak a little more volume out of small injectors when bigger ones were not readily available. We don't need to do that anymore.

    If you decide to return to the 39/40 psi base fuel system pressures you will need to restate the injector's flow rate in TunerStudio because it is rated at 43.5 psi (3BAR) the difference is not a lot but it adds precision to the system. The Fuel System Calculator has conversion calculators on page 4 that will do all the heavy lifting for you and make the restatement as easy as typing in the old pressure and flow rate and then the new target pressure to see the new flow rate.


    Ed


    p.s. Apologies, Josh I forgot to respond to the pressure setting type. The base fuel pressure is a differential pressure across the injector that is boost (or vacuum) referenced. When you set the pressure regulator, do it with the vacuum line disconnected and you will be good to go. When you are done don't forget to reconnect the vacuum line.
    Last edited by eschaider; 10-14-2019 at 01:16 PM. Reason: Fixed Broken Pic Link

  15. #43
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    I had about 30 mins to play. Here is what I have changed do far. Simple stuff. Problem is over the weekend I found where to set the idle. For some reason I could not find it tonight.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  16. #44

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    It looks like you are right on with just about everything, Josh. My only area of concern would be the injectors. An 840 cc injector at 43.5 psi (3BAR) is approximately an 800 cc injector (80 lb injector) at 39psi and that is going to be too small for an E85 fueled engine.


    Ed



    p.s. Apologies I forgot to mention Idle settings. Look at the pic below;

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    Try clicking on the start up idle button at the top center of the screen. It has a wealth of startup and idle control settings.
    Last edited by eschaider; 10-17-2019 at 09:18 PM. Reason: Added Postscript

  17. #45
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    The injectors will be changed I just have not done that yet as I am still deciding on the FIC1200/FID1300 which are half the price of the 2200 you posted. The 2200 are not too big? I am trying to just get the car started so that I can move it away from the lift. My main questions was my FPR is set for 50psi so I changed "Static/Target Rail Diff Pressure" from 40psi to 50psi (still 40psi in this pic).

    I went all through the startup/idle tab and could not find where I found last week to set idle. I of course printed out the Ultimate Manual and left in my Explorer to take to shop and ended up taking my wife's car to the shop and forgot to grab it. I will be back at it Saturday.


    Quote Originally Posted by eschaider View Post
    It looks like you are right on with just about everything, Josh. My only area of concern would be the injectors. An 840 cc injector at 43.5 psi (3BAR) is approximately an 800 cc injector (80 lb injector) at 39psi and that is going to be too small for an E85 fueled engine.


    Ed



    p.s. Apologies I forgot to mention Idle settings. Look at the pic below;

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Size:  73.1 KB

    Try clicking on the start up idle button at the top center of the screen. It has a wealth of startup and idle control settings.
    Last edited by GodStang; 10-18-2019 at 06:43 AM.

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