MS3Pro Terminator Version Arrives!!

[GodStang]

Josh, I was curious since i haven't had to mess with MS and Injectors in a while so i found a spreadsheet that will calculate the ford data to MS data accurately. (super valuable to a computer/tuner geek like me) This is not my work but one of the guys from the MS forums.
The only discrepancy I noted was the batt voltage offset usually crosses over 100% at 13.2v but he is using 14.0v which isn't a big deal.

I did the calcs for you @ 50psi base fuel pressure, but feel free to download and play with it. I would plug these in before tuning, better to build your foundation on since we have them.

Dead Time 0.869732414
Dead Time Voltage Curve
8 221.85%
11 142.57%
12 126.97%
13 112.73%
14 100.00%
15 90.01%



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=302838282

Thanks a lot! I will be messing with it a bit more this weekend.

[MustangMikeMia]

On a side note but related to this thread, I'm close to startup on my terminator w 40k miles on it, and MS3x in a FFR Daytona Kit car. All fluids are in, Spark and Injectors test fired, and Ill be checking crank and cam signals tomorrow.
I banged around the idea of pressurizing the oil system but decided to just put some oil into the piston/cyl wall area w a tube and bore scope and let her rip. It hasn't been started in over 1 yr.
fingers crossed.

[eschaider]

Mike,

When these engines sit that long the oil drains back from the engine to the pan. In a Modmotor the last things to get oiled are the cams. I would give some consideration to a prelube for the engine just to protect the cams and more importantly the cam saddles in the heads.

The vast majority of the damage done to the cam saddles in the heads occurs at first start. As the incidental damage gets worse with use, it ultimately seizes a cam, breaks a secondary timing chain and destroys an engine.

I would definitely spin the engine w/o plugs or use a pressure prelude to get oil back to all the bearing surfaces in the engine, Before you start it. After you get it running again I would suggest adding a bottle of ProLong immediately and again at each oil change. It will save your engine, your wallet and your sensibilities by providing the cold start protection you will need.


Ed

[MustangMikeMia]

Thanks Ed, I did do that. I removed the plugs and sprayed some oil on the cyl walls and spun it over running a MS3 cam/crank logging to check the signals, all appears good. I never really saw any oil pressure on the gauge but only spun it for 5-8 sec each time, the gauge did flutter tho. I guess i should pull a cover and check for oil?
Also im second guessing the my Tooth#1 angle (400?) in the ignition Options and wheel decoder area. I'm positive I downloaded the default MSQ that came with the new PNP fro reference but cant find it anywhere including their site, can someone PM it to me?
Mike

[eschaider]

Mike,

PM me an email address for you and I will email you the unmodified MS3Pro .msq file for the Terminator. The last time I tried to send it through the website something went bump in the dark. I think the vBulletin s/w has some type of heartburn with the msg fie type.

Th correct Tooth #1 angle for our engines is 400˚, once you start the engine check the timing with a timing light as DIYAutoTune tells us to do in their video #2. Based on what you see adjust the 400˚ number until the timing light shows 10˚ BTDC timing.


Ed


p.s. I forgot to mention this earlier. Peterson Fluid systems has a very nice remote oil filter mount that includes a priming pump for the engine. The remote has an oil pump built in and a stub hex drive to power the pump. Get an electric drill spin the pump and put 20 psi of oil everywhere before you light the engine up. Very nice packaging. It is available for the big NASCAR style filters or the smaller daily driver type filters. Here is a link to the page and also a pic.

Click here => Peterson Large Filter Remote w/Primer Pump

and here is a pic of the gizmo;

[MustangMikeMia]

Thanks Ed! Wow that is so cool, glad I didn't see that earlier, my wallet would be much lighter now.
So in regards to timing a mod motor externally, I don't see any timing marks on any pulleys, so do I need to find TDC and buy a timing tape and make a pointer? Or am i missing something obvious
(I hope). I assume It could only be off a degree or two on a stock motor with the chain slack or stacked tolerances? Would you suggest doing the timing procedure for everyone using the MS3?
Mike.

[eschaider]

The Modmotor has timing marks cast into the timing cover and registering on the OD of the crank damper where you will find a small notch for TDC. See the pic below;



There are markings in red boxes in the pic above for 30˚ BTDC, 10˚ and 0˚. You want the 10˚ marking.



Ed

[96slowbra]

Mike,

PM me an email address for you and I will email you the unmodified MS3Pro .msq file for the Terminator. The last time I tried to send it through the website something went bump in the dark. I think the vBulletin s/w has some type of heartburn with the msg fie type.

Ed,
If this was in reference to the attempt you made to send me the Terminator file in the other thread by changing it to an excel file that worked fine. I was able to download and change the file extension without issue.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[GodStang]

I am in the same boat as you. Having a massive radiator it makes it almost impossible to see the marks. Getting the timing light in there may be a nightmare. I have played around with a lot of the MS3pro I just have not gotten into it not having done the timing yet.

Thanks Ed! Wow that is so cool, glad I didn't see that earlier, my wallet would be much lighter now.
So in regards to timing a mod motor externally, I don't see any timing marks on any pulleys, so do I need to find TDC and buy a timing tape and make a pointer? Or am i missing something obvious
(I hope). I assume It could only be off a degree or two on a stock motor with the chain slack or stacked tolerances? Would you suggest doing the timing procedure for everyone using the MS3?
Mike.

The Modmotor has timing marks cast into the timing cover and registering on the OD of the crank damper where you will find a small notch for TDC. See the pic below;



There are markings in red boxes in the pic above for 30˚ BTDC, 10˚ and 0˚. You want the 10˚ marking.



Ed

[eschaider]

Ed,
If this was in reference to the attempt you made to send me the Terminator file in the other thread by changing it to an excel file that worked fine. I was able to download and change the file extension without issue.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I wasn't Tommy. When I sent yours the file type change appeared to work. The next time I tried that it didn't, so I used regular email just to be safe. I can't explain the on again, off again experience. I may have had a fat finger typing error. Email is a sure thing so I went conservative just to be safe.


Ed

[MustangMikeMia]

Ed I want to thank you and relay my story on timing. I found the marks as you indicated and set the MS3 Ignition Option/Wheel Decoder setting to Fixed Advanced 10deg btdc then checked it with a light. I have lots of room in the Daytona up there but I can see how hard it would be to do in a mustang.
I was very surprised, I had to pull 8 deg out and set the tooth angle to 392 to get the marks to line up on the 10btdc mark with the light.
8 deg advance would have hurt the engine in boost for sure.
This is a stock engine that had never been apart at all with no bolt ons.
Bottom line I would suggest everyone dbl check that when switching over to a new ECU.

Mike

[eschaider]

You are absolutely right about the damage 8 extra degrees of timing is capable of providing but you don't know if the timing cover marks are correct until you check them with a TDC stop and a degree wheel. Without checking you are assuming Ford marked the cover correctly. These covers were not made by Ford. That's sometimes good and some times bad.

Ford's Tier 1 suppliers, that make them, can be a pot luck sort of crew — which means the marks can be considerably off from reality. Don't forget they weren't designed to be used by anyone. When was the last time you ever heard of someone using them, let alone even knowing they existed?

Don't risk your engine on a potentially whacko representation of what the timing is. On an n/a motor you'll just be disappointed by either knock or wimpy performance. On a blown gas engine if you get a little too frisky with the spark you're gong to whack a couple of pistons or worse. Take the time and effort to check TDC (and 10 degrees) with a Degree wheel. You'll be glad you did.


Ed

[GodStang]

You are absolutely right about the damage 8 extra degrees of timing is capable of providing but you don't know if the timing cover marks are correct until you check them with a TDC stop and a degree wheel. Without checking you are assuming Ford marked the cover correctly. These covers were not made by Ford. That's sometimes good and some times bad.

Ford's Tier 1 suppliers, that make them, can be a pot luck sort of crew — which means the marks can be considerably off from reality. Don't forget they weren't designed to be used by anyone. When was the last time you ever heard of someone using them, let alone even knowing they existed?

Don't risk your engine on a potentially whacko representation of what the timing is. On an n/a motor you'll just be disappointed by either knock or wimpy performance. On a blown gas engine if you get a little too frisky with the spark you're gong to whack a couple of pistons or worse. Take the time and effort to check TDC (and 10 degrees) with a Degree wheel. You'll be glad you did.


Ed

I am hoping the fact that my engine is aftermarket by a once great company will be more on point. I hope to check it today when I install the E85 sensor now that all the parts are here.

[KEVINS]

I wasn't quite sure what you actually did to adjust for TDC but it sounded like you adjusted the computer settings so the balancer mark matched the timing cover?
If so do not do this. Find TDC and wherever the balancer has 0* just make a new mark on the timing cover then use that mark. OR make a new mark on the balancer that lines up with the timing cover.

I apologize if I don't understand how you "fixed" the marks.

ks

[GodStang]

I wasn't quite sure what you actually did to adjust for TDC but it sounded like you adjusted the computer settings so the balancer mark matched the timing cover?
If so do not do this. Find TDC and wherever the balancer has 0* just make a new mark on the timing cover then use that mark. OR make a new mark on the balancer that lines up with the timing cover.

I apologize if I don't understand how you "fixed" the marks.

ks

Luckily with my blower on the driver side it is easily to get to #1, but yes we planned to make sure #1 is TDC.