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Thread: My build process
10-14-2019,†11:53 AM #1
My Turbo build process
So this wont have no where near the details as the other builds here. I've been accumulating parts for so long I'm just excited to finally put it together. I have alot of patience putting everything together but not enough to get the camera out.
I started with a 96 Teksid engine from a Mark 8 that I purchased for $350. Out of that, I kept the block, oil pickup, valve covers, bolts and some odd and end things, trashed the rest. Picked up a Cobra crank from NMRA last year for $300. Ordered a set of Molnar Power Adder rods, ATI balancer. Before taking the block to the machine shop, I spent some time and fully deburred the block. Took those to the machine shop to get everything cleaned up and checked. The block ended up cleaning up at 3.652 which I wasn't to happy about but its fine for now. Ordered a set of Gibtec's based on what the block cleaned up at. The crank needed some metal added but everything balanced up great. Per Ed's advice, I sent the pistons off to Line 2 Line for some coating. They were super fast, they looked amazing and were very accommodating. I HIGHLY recommend them.
I went with the King 5281si main bearings with the 1329si upper.
Purchased the ring file from Summit. It was very easy to use. I chose to go .028 on the steel upper ring as well as the second napier ring. The steel upper is alot harder than the naiper. It took about 25 or so turns to get close to my goal and about 5-6 to get close for the napier ring. Learning that didn't take as long to file fit them for each bore. Just make sure to turn the diamond grinder towards the inside of the ring, not the outside. Also you need to make sure you smooth the edges of the rings after gapping them, if not, the rings wont seat into the ring lands.
Here you can see then Line 2 Line coating. They require a special break in but the coating wears off quick where it needs too.
The rod bolts were already torqued on very good out of the box. It was a pain to get them off so I had to use air tools, some redneck engineering but got them off. The locks were actually pretty easy to get on but your fingers will feel it the next day. I found if you put the ring gaps in first then press the bottom in then use a screw driver to lightly push them in, then clicks right in place.
While the machine shop had the block, I had them tap the sides of the main caps for the larger 9mm ARP side bolts.
I used Plastigage to check the clearances, the mains came out to .015 while the rods came out to .017. Torqued the inside main bolts to 60ftlbs, outside's to 25ftlbs, jackscrews to 7ftlbs and the side bolts to 45ftlbs. Let the boss torque them down since she wanted to help
I had an old Craftsman piston ring compressor that I always used in the past but when I got the 2nd piston in I turned the crank and noticed something grabbing. Removed both pistons and noticed when I slid #5 piston in, the lower oil ring got damaged and marked up the cylinder wall a bit. Little bit of scotchbrite got it cleaned up. I had an extra one but the gap on that was .035 while the others are .015.
So like an idiot I didn't read the information from Molnar about the bolts. I cleaned them up, used ARP lube and torqued them down to 60ftlbs. Reading the sheet it says to use supplied oil that were already on the rods. Is this ok or should I remove the caps and get some other thicker oil? Oil pan isn't on yet.
Kris Starnes did a great job on the heads. He installed .5mm larger intake Ferrea valves and stock size exhaust, Pac springs, bronze valve guides and a heavy port job.
Got the heads on using 30-60 then 85ftlbs. I went with the Felpro 26222PT and 26187PT.
For the oil pump I went with the GT500 with the billet gear from Boundary and the GT500 oil gasket. The oil gasket required some cutting with the dremel but came out great. I used the Mark 8 oil pick up which also required some cutting.
That's it for now. Next is the custom turbo cams and all the timing. Not looking forward to tackling that, heh.
Let me know any thoughts or something I should check etc.
Last edited by RussZTT; 10-14-2019 at 12:00 PM.
10-14-2019,†02:52 PM #2
What compression did you go with and what oil pan you using?
Was the only cutting required for the pick up just the crank scraper?
If I missed it in another thread I apologize, but whatís the turbo set up consist of? What size turbos and is it a custom build or off the shelf kit?
Looks like itís coming along quite well!
10-14-2019,†03:47 PM #3
Very nice Russ. Good pics and good parts. You will really love the Line 2 Line coating on the pistons. It borders on magic!
As you begin the cam phasing try to build a gizmo like this to hold the dial indicators,
It will greatly simplify the cam phasing job. The dial indicators are easily sourced from eBay and range from $10 to $20 depending on who you buy from.
You will need a pair of Starret split collars to hold the dial indicators in place yet allow for adjustability. The Starret split collars are available on eBay between $15 and $25 each. I have attached a Starret split collar print at the bottom of this email. You will need two dial indicator probe extensions. One will need to be 55 mm long and the other will need to be 60 mm long. eBay sourced again about $5.
If you get US spec dial indicators they will have ⅜" stems and the split collars will need to be for ⅜" stems. If you get European or asian spec indicators they will have 8mm (5/16") stems and the split collars will need to be for 8mm / 5/16 " stems.
The split collars go into a heavy wall (5/16") piece of angle aluminum. Drill and tap the backside for a short #12 or ľ" stud and use a wing nut to locate it in a slotted aluminum bar that is bolted to the valve cover attachment bosses.
This little gizmo will save hours of set up and headache.
You still need to make a TDC tool out of an old sparkplug. Take an old plug machine the collar off the top and push out the porcelain and break off the side wire. Make an aluminum bar the size of a plug well hole that is machined down to fit into you now empty spark plug shell.
When you are done your TDC Tool will look like this;
Get a quality Degree Wheel. I recommend Jomar. The one in th epic below has been with me for something like 45 years. It does not mar the crank snout because it uses a cinch collar on the hub to lock the ring. The Hub is held on the crank by the snout bolt or stud (you did stud your crank right?).
While not absolutely necessary this little gizmo makes reading the degree wheel accurate and repeatable.
You can see it in use in the pic of the degree wheel above. It uses a piece of plastic from Tap Plastics for about $2 some mild steel bar stock and a dial indicator stand swivel. I used a piece of aluminum bar stock for a stop against the block that I tapped on one side for an 8mm set screw and pressed the bar stock into the other side. The piece of bar stock for the plastic lens was threaded and screwed into a drilled and tapped hole on the plastic lens. The black line is a scribe mark filled with the black ink from a small Sharpie
Tools seem like a PITA to make but they are less of a PITA that struggling with poor tools while trying to do a precision job.
PM me an email address if you wish and I will send you another software tool to turn the event into a one and done affair. Include a phone # and I'll call you to walk you through how it works.
Check your PM's, I have something that might help you on the cam phasing.
Last edited by eschaider; 10-15-2019 at 02:11 AM. Reason: Fixed broken Pic links
10-14-2019,†03:59 PM #4
Ken, I went with 11.1 compression. I purchased a used oil pan online with a deeper sump with 2 return fittings already welded in, Iím not sure of the brand. I also needed to notch the inside of the pan since it was hitting the pick up tube slightly. That, the oil pan gasket and the tube was the only trimming I needed to do.
Iím going with twin Precision 6870ís. I scored a brand new set of CG Fab headers from someone online then having someone local do the rest and the mounting. Wish I knew how to weld!
Last edited by RussZTT; 10-14-2019 at 04:13 PM.
10-14-2019,†04:13 PM #5
Thanks, Ed! Iíll look into your post in more detail when I get home. As always, you provide excellent and detailed . That is the next purchase is for everything needed to degree the cams. Iíll get the items you listed for sure. It will be a learning curve for sure! Side note, do you think using ARP lube on the rod bolts are fine?
10-14-2019,†04:22 PM #6
I think it is fine. The best way to do rod bolts is with a stretch gauge but Torque has been used for many years and quite successfully. The big deal about ARP Ultratorque is that it provides repeatable tensioning the first time and every subsequent time. That's a big deal especially if you are tightening the bolts for the second or third time.
10-17-2019,†10:31 AM #7
- Join Date
- Sep 2018
I can’t believe that used to be an old greasy block. Looks brand new! I been struggling with cleaning aluminum suspension parts lately and my mouth dropped when I looked at ur engine! Epic project you got going.
10-18-2019,†09:02 AM #8
Thanks! While the machine shop did an ok job of getting most of the grime and oil off, I had purchased a can of Citrol from Ebay, this did wonders. This stuff is strong so wear a proper mask, gloves and do it outside.
I love this spray paint and have a few cans of it. This is what makes it look brand new. Highly recommend this if you want to new aluminum look.
Last edited by RussZTT; 10-18-2019 at 09:07 AM.
10-18-2019,†09:16 AM #9
I've been thinking since it will most likely be 3 or so months till im done that i'm going to pull the heads back off and wipe down the cylinder walls with ATF. Before I installed the pistons, I used Brakleen to get all the machine oil out of the crosspatch but didn't put anything on the walls to prevent any surface rust which could happen pretty quickly here in Florida.
I'm using a Sullivan lower and noticed even though my heads are fully ported, there are a few "edges" where the Sully is larger than the port on the head. Tonight I'll port match those areas for a smooth flow. I'll button down the cams to get ready for the next step of the timming process.
Spent an hour on the phone with Ed last night (Thanks for the Spanish lessons!) haha. I'll need to get the items that he showed in the few posts above to make the job easier. Since I don't have tons of time to work on it at one time, I fully expect to take a few weeks to get that part done and to take my time. I'll take pics along the way as well for some guidance.
10-18-2019,†11:51 AM #10
The ATF is good protection until you are ready to assemble the short block Russ.
Total Seal sells a dry film lubricant called QuickSeat. This is what it looks like;
The stuff is amazing in terms of ring seal and cylinder wall surface protection. It provides the proper lubrication during the critical break in period and virtually eliminates ring related cylinder wall glazing and burnishing. The engines we have built with this stuff consistently leak down in the 2%, sometimes lower, range. Most importantly the ring seating process goes from a chancy did I do it right this time to a one and done sort of event. You can get it at Summit and Jegs. You will be surprised when you see how little is required to do the job. Just follow the directions and you will be quite pleasantly surprised.
The other assembly step you ought to think about is how you lubricate the cam journal bearings. Most of the damage to cam journals is done at startup after the engine has sat for some time. The time to get oil back up to the heads and into the cam journals gives just enough time to start scuffing the journals. Over time, once started, the scuffing increases until a cam seizes in a head and breaks a timing chain.
If you put literally one or two drops, maximum, of ProLong on the cam journals prior to installation in the head and then spin them by hand to evenly spread the lube over the journals and saddles you will eliminate to potential to scuff either the saddle in the head or the journal on the cam. I know this sounds hard to believe but don't overdo the one or two drop recommendation. The ProLong is so slippery that it will make ring seating a tougher and longer proposition than you care for. After less than 300 miles or less, with QuickSeat, your rings will be seated. Change your filter and oil after the first 25 / 50 miles of operation and put in a fresh one and fresh oil. Use the new stuff out to 300 miles. Change the oil to a synthetic and put in a fresh filter at 300 miles along with a 12 oz bottle of Prolong in the engine then and every oil change thereafter.
If you buy Prolong from Amazon it approximates $15 to $20 for a 12 oz bottle, click here =>12 oz Bottle. If you buy it in the gallon jug it is the equivalent of about ten 12 oz bottles and costs about $55 to $60, click here => Gallon Jug
p.s. Forgot to mention, for break-in purposes only, this is an excellent oil filter => Jomar Pro Filter this filter is a full flow filter without an internal bypass which means all oil is filtered all the time. It also means that it needs to be replaced at each of your first two oil changes. After the second oil change use a WIX Racing filter with the fine mesh filtration rating and change it at each oil change. The Wix, like all commercial filters, uses an internal bypass but after break-in this is not an issue and actually the better way to go.
Last edited by eschaider; 10-18-2019 at 12:00 PM. Reason: Added Postscript
10-18-2019,†02:52 PM #11
Just a note on Prolong that I thought I would pass along. Based on Ed's comments on a previous thread about how he feels PL went a long way in saving a starved motor I decided to start using it after an incident I just had. No damage was done but I added some PL to the oil just in case something stupid happens again. Scavenge pump quit working and pumped all the oil out the turbo seals. How can I be outta oil, I just put in 8qts! Must be a bad gauge or something...WRONG! Live and Learn..aarrgg..
The only thing I'm debating is whether one bottle is enough for 8-9qts of oil. I think one bottle treats 4 qts so I will probably add another bottle but hopefully it isn't so slippery that it causes oil leaks..<--Big Fear!
10-18-2019,†04:21 PM #12
One bottle is usually good for 4 to 6 quarts, Kevin. When I couldn't hold the lifters from the race engine during teardown with my fingers after our oiling whoops, I had added a single 12oz bottle to the engine before we blew off the oil line. The oil pan held 12 quarts, one more for the filter and probably a pint in the various lines. Prolong makes the engine internals unbelievably slippery.
Last edited by eschaider; 10-18-2019 at 04:55 PM. Reason: Spelling & Grammar
10-18-2019,†04:24 PM #13
Ugh, well unfortunately I already removed the heads and re-installed them earlier today. Thanks Ed for all that info though. Iíll be sure to get some for the next build if there is one, ha!
Good idea on the Prolong, guys! I went ahead and purchased a gallon. I did already install the cams but the caps are on snug. I did notice the cam mains were little rough so I took some Scotchbrite to them and they feel smooth as a babyís butt. I used assembly lube but can easily remove them to put a few drops of Prolong. I know I had purchased some about 20 yrs ago and maybe had about 2 cups left over but ended up throwing out the bottle when I was packing up to move.
Ed, even though the cams I got from Todd were in the Billet boxes, Iím thinking theyíre stock just re-ground. They donít look like the ones you have. Thoughts?
Last edited by RussZTT; 10-18-2019 at 04:38 PM.
10-18-2019,†04:52 PM #14
Your cams are definitely billet cams, Russ. You can tell by the hex on each cam between cylinders 2 and 3 and cylinders 6 and 7. The other dead giveaway is the radiuses where the lobes blend into the main shaft. The only place you will find those is on aftermarket billet cores. Those are high quality camshafts you have there.
The reason yours look different than mine is several fold. For one I intended to remove the wrenching humps in the middle of the cams (between 2/3 and 6/7) because I originally intended to use Ford's camshaft holding tool in those positions. This is what the tool looks like;
When you install it and clamp the two cams down they are locked together. When you loosen just one it allows you to make minute cam phasing adjustments to put the cam phasing where you want it.
After I cut the wrenching portions off the intake cams I passed on doing it to the exhausts because the metal was so tough and gummy when you were cutting it. Additionally my cams are relatively old. They are original Daytona Prototype grinds out of Roush-Yates that Ford sent to Comp to have done on their CNC cam grinding equipment. Back then the companies that produced cores made them look a bit different than today.
All that said you have excellent billet cores that your cam profiles were ground on to. Nothing to be concerned about with respect to slight differences in appearances.
Last edited by eschaider; 10-18-2019 at 04:57 PM. Reason: Spelling & Grammar
10-26-2019,†08:05 AM #15
Thank you Ed for confirming the cams. Just wanted to make sure!
Got the CG Fab headers installed. These look amazing. I'm going to be running plates so I need to find someone to custom make me a front plate to clear the headers. Already have a mid plate on the way. Haven't had too much time but slowly getting the tools needed to tackle the timing. I still need to find the secondary sprockets. L&M have the new 9 ways but I can't see spending $400 for them so i'm still looking. I'm in no rush.
Last edited by RussZTT; 10-26-2019 at 08:07 AM.