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Turbo Engine Re-Build

24K views 170 replies 7 participants last post by  CrucialProspect 
#1 ·
New to the forum here, but always referenced it’s material. Little background info, I have a built and stripped down ‘04. Been running an ancient hp performance twin 50mm turbo through a built mvb 4r70. I’ve raced this car off and on for 10 years, and just two years ago I’ve decided to take it off the street completely.

Figured I would run a cold compression test at the end of the season. I figured if it was getting tired, I’d go ahead and do some upgrades. Engine was originally built in 2008. Kellog crank, Manley rods, -18cc diamond pistons, ported pi heads. Since then I’ve put on trick flow 38cc to bump compression, and a secret sauce set of bump sticks. I’ve only had 15psi through it, and it has been dead reliable for 6 race seasons.
Originally I had 190psi cold, within 10% all cylinders. Now I have 170psi average, with cylinder 4 at 125 psi and cylinder 8 at 135psi. I believe that’s all I need to convince me.

I hope to be able to keep crank, rods, heads and cams. I may change pistons for higher comp (I’m running 114 octane) if they don’t mic round anymore. Also, I’m tossing the block to go to the aluminum block for weight savings.

Since I’ve been out of the engine building game for this long, what is some current advice/tips/tricks? This engine was built when the terminator was the best out there, and cams were all re-grinds. I know the game has changed and the aftermarket has a solution for every problem. The same suggestions would be welcome for bearings, rings, gasket brands, etc. there are some upgrades I’d like to do such as mmr’s billet timing guides and maybe adjustable cam gears, but a lot of others that I probably don’t need. And as much as I respect other engines, It will stay twin turbo 2v 4.6!
 
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#128 ·
What lower radiator hose am I looking for? I’m not even sure what “style” oil filter adapter I have to cross reference or search. I could probably make my stock 2v work by sleeving a 90 degree on the end that attaches to the coolant tube on the the plate. I just didn’t know if there was a factory setup similar with the coolant reservoir tee’d into it like the stock 2v.
 
#129 ·
What lower radiator hose am I looking for? I'm not even sure what "style" oil filter adapter I have to cross reference or search. I could probably make my stock 2v work by sleeving a 90 degree on the end that attaches to the coolant tube on the the plate. I just didn't know if there was a factory setup similar with the coolant reservoir tee'd into it like the stock 2v.
There isn't. I believe James uses a 1.75" diameter inlet tube. Go to your local parts store and get a 1.75" ID 90˚ bend radiator hose and then plumb from there to your radiator. Alternatively get a 1.75" 90˚ stainless bend and use a short length of straight radiator hose to the block. Plumb the other end back to your radiator with appropriate hose bends and lengths.

Ed
 
#130 ·
I guess I was kidding when I said last order from Summit, I’ve put together my timing list which consists of the TFS supplemental kit of solid lash adjuster and the crank adapter for my degree wheel.
TFS-90100
And crank adapter
Comp-4793
Any reason after all this time of factory lash adjuster to switch over to the GT followers?
 
#131 ·
I guess I was kidding when I said last order from Summit, I've put together my timing list which consists of the TFS supplemental kit of solid lash adjuster and the crank adapter for my degree wheel.
TFS-90100 And crank adapter Comp-4793
The crank adapter you are planning to use employs a set screw to anchor it on the crank snout. The set screw will mar the snout on your crank. If that is OK with you then that crank adapter is OK to use. If that is not OK with you then you need to use this non marring alternative => Jomar Products

If you do not want to buy the degree wheel and Hub adapter and your degree wheel has a 1.25" hole in the center, then you can buy just the hub adapter with a ⅝ inch reducer bushing, make a sleeve to take it down to 12mm and you are good to go. If you want to avoid the fabrication process then get the ½ inch reducer bushing and use it w/o a sleeve. 12mm is 0.472" so you will have about 0.014" clearance around the 12mm OEM bolt.

Any reason after all this time of factory lash adjuster to switch over to the GT followers?
If you had none and were buying brand new then I would buy the GT followers. If you already have serviceable factory followers I would not spend the monies. If you are talking about the hydraulic lash adjusters in the head there is no difference other than the GT intake lash adjusters will not fit in the Cobra "C" heads.

Ed
 
#133 ·
I’m having a brain fart, my oil pump bolt mounting kit (the bolts I took out) I have 3 m6 40mm, but the last bolt is mia. I swear I bagged and tagged everything accordingly. Is one of those bolts also used for the timing chain set? I’ve got one exact one in my timing set that’s 65mm long on the drivers side. Does that sound correct? Iirc the lower passenger side timing guide shares that bolt.
 
#134 ·
I'm having a brain fart, my oil pump bolt mounting kit (the bolts I took out) I have 3 m6 40mm, but the last bolt is mia. I swear I bagged and tagged everything accordingly. Is one of those bolts also used for the timing chain set? I've got one exact one in my timing set that's 65mm long on the drivers side. Does that sound correct? Iirc the lower passenger side timing guide shares that bolt.
The longer bolt for the oil pump is the same bolt that is used for the lower timing guide.
 
#135 ·
I thought so, I was just looking at this build book I’m using, and they have 4 individual bolts without the timing guides installed, but it was also a 4v so I wasn’t sure. That’s when I found my baggy and it only had the three bolts in it. Then I found my timing chain guide with a very similar bolt, just 20mm longer. Is there any rtv needed between the mating surface of the pump and the block or is dry installed and torqued?
 
#139 ·
I thought so, I was just looking at this build book I'm using, and they have 4 individual bolts without the timing guides installed, but it was also a 4v so I wasn't sure. That's when I found my baggy and it only had the three bolts in it. Then I found my timing chain guide with a very similar bolt, just 20mm longer. Is there any rtv needed between the mating surface of the pump and the block or is dry installed and torqued?
Nope, dry installed!
 
#136 · (Edited)
Normally dry assembly.

If you want, you could use Honda Bond or Yama Bond. Both sealants / adhesives are used by Yamaha and Honda to seal crankcase halves, transmission halves etc while preventing leaking. Very impressive and very good. You will need clean flat surfaces for this to work. The oil pump output port and the block face are both machined flat and smooth. They.should work fine.


Ed
 
#143 ·
What I remember on the oil pan is that I eventually used a tube of black rtv to seal the block to the windage tray (with gasket) and windage tray to pan (with gasket) it was my dumb luck I tried using just gaskets last time and it leaked like a sieve. Had to lift the motor one weekend to finally get it rtv’d and sealed. But first I have to play-doh it to see how far from the bottom of the pan I actually am, that’s about the only number I don’t know at this point.
 
#144 ·
I did look (before I re-install engine) at their SFI flex plate shields. Running a 4r70w, the options are spread thin for trans shields, so I’ll probably have to run a blanket, but the actual shields are available through Campbell Enterprises. I’m assuming this will fit between the block and trans where the stock shield was?
 
#145 ·
Right bank was set at Cylinder 1 5 degrees advance to meet the intake centerline of 114 degrees as called out on the cam card. Been a long night so far doing this timing.....

Just to make sure I done it right, I found tdc using piston stop. Installed chains dot to dot. Put in adjustable lifter, added a touch of pre-load, and went to .050 on both sides of the cam to reach 147.5 and 81 degrees. Which gives me the 114 I’m looking for. So far so good?

Now I can go BACK to tdc and do the same thing for cylinder 6 intake and do the same, correct?
 
#146 ·
My previous experience is confirmed. Even with the max 6 degrees retarded on the left bank, the icl finally reached 114 degrees on the right bank by advancing it 5 degrees. With both banks now within 1/2 degree of 114 on icl, Knowing human error, these cams are about 11 degrees off the standard dot to dot installation.

And that’s why you should degree your cams!

I suspected this from previous experience where low compression on the right bank caused me to advance the right bank 1 tooth plus filing the keyway (stock cam gears) to gain the equivalent cylinder pressure side to side. These comp adjustable gears certainly make the process easier, thanks for the advice Ed!

Knowing the exhaust centerline, and before re-installing all the followers and lifters, should I also check exhaust? I’ll go over this again tomorrow, re-check tdc and cam degreeing when maybe a fresh mind is thinking differently. But all in all, I believe I’m in good shape.
 
#147 ·
I agree about you being in good shape, Matt. On cams where the Intake and exhaust lobes are both on the same shaft you have no control over LSA. That of course does not mean it is not worth checking, which is what you are in fact doing when you check the exhaust phasing. Today's cam grinding equipment should produce cams that accurately reflect the actual LSA as indicated on the manufacturer's cam card. In the rare event it does not you always have the opportunity to ask the cam grinder for a replacement.


Ed
 
#151 ·
Before I put the timing chain cover on, I did see this:

View attachment 171117
View attachment 171119

Because they are not side specific, is there any cause of concern of the depth of the tensioner arm pivot stud?
Casting irregularities most likely. Take a fine file (with the part out of the engine) and file down the rough edges, then sand it smooth with sand paper to provide a nice finished surface.

Ed
 
#153 ·
Ed, was speaking in terms of the pivot arm stud, the 8mm cobra engineering one. It’s not all the way through the tensioner like the other side.

P.s. I’ll take care of the deburring, as carefully as I can!

Also, the ICL is 114 and 114.5 respectively on the cams, as close as I could get with human error and without the finest adjustment.
 
#154 ·
Ed, was speaking in terms of the pivot arm stud, the 8mm cobra engineering one. It's not all the way through the tensioner like the other side.
The arms are side specific make sure you don't have them on the wrong sides.

P.s. I'll take care of the deburring, as carefully as I can!
While you are at it look for other spots that might have been overlooked.

Also, the ICL is 114 and 114.5 respectively on the cams, as close as I could get with human error and without the finest adjustment.
That is about t as good as it needs to be or reasonably gets.

Ed
 
#158 ·
Ford initially appears to make a distinction between left and right guides in this pic but in the instructions use the same number for both sides.

Map World Font Parallel Slope


They do the same thing for the 4V guides and in fact use the same numbers. When I put my 4V together I noticed a difference with guide positioning depending on whether I put it on the left or right side. I suspect yours is no different.

The pivot pins are the same length on both sides. Just swap the guides and see what happens.

Ed
 
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