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M10 Side Bolt Upgrade

13K views 30 replies 7 participants last post by  eschaider 
#1 ·
<This post and several of those that originally followed it have been moved from the Manley 300M Pro Series I Beam Connecting Rods (<clickable) to their own thread because they weren't related to the original thread's subject matter and should have been a new thread and not an addition to the existing Manley connecting rod thread.>


The Teksid you have will serve you well, especially at a 1000HP and below threshold. The 1999 Teksid and the Aluminator used a WAP side bolt and main cap design that made the 10mm side bolts very easy to install. If you go the 10mm side bolt route be sure to use a thread forming tap not a thread cutting tap. You will only have a little over a single diameter of thread engagement and you will need an intimate thread engagement similar to that used on aluminum. When I did my caps I was shooting for a 76% to 78% thread engagement.

This is a pic of the first generation Mihovitz 10mm side bolts compared to a 9mm WAP side bolt.

Household hardware Fastener Nickel Auto part Metal


The more recent versions have only half as much threaded shank on the bolt because that is all that is needed. The picture shows how nicely John had ARP integrate the washer into the bolt head. You can do the same thing with a heavy 1" OD washer for a ⅜" fastener and enlarge the hole to fit a 10mm fastener. If you choose to go this route don't forget to chamfer the side of the washer that goes against the underside of the bolt head. ARP provides a generous radius on the underside of their bolt heads for strength. You will need to chamfer the washer to clear that radius.

A modification to the caps that will make the regular assembly and disassembly, that is done during clearance checking and adjustment, easier is a ¼ x 20 or 28 threaded hole in the center of the cap like below,

Gas Engineering Wood Rectangle Machine


This will allow the use of a slide hammer (homemade of course) to pull the caps out of the WAP style blocks. The Teksid blocks use a threaded steel insert with a hex broached in the center to allow an allen wrench to be used to apply a side load to the cap once it is installed in the block. The hex is broached all the way through so the 8mm side bolt can pass through and into the main cap. The ARP torque spec for 8mm bolts is 28 ft/lbs. The torque spec for the 10mm fastener is 62 ft/lbs (same as a main stud). The clamping force goes from about 6600 lbs to about 14,000 lbs - big difference.

Here is a quick rundown of how I did the side bolt upgrade.

The first step is zeroing the head on the mill and then setting the caps up so the bolt holes are parallel and normal to the cap faces. I use gauge pins in the spindle of the mill to find accurate hole centers. Then I drill an undersized hole ~0.015" smaller than what the tap drill chart calls out for the 10mm thread forming tap you will be using. BTW it is easier if the mill has a DRO but not impossible if it does not.

Wood Gas Engineering Machine Metal


I write down the X-Y co-ordinates for each hole so I can come back afterwards with the reamer and tap. If the mill does not have a DRO then you need to drill, ream and thread each hole before moving on to the next.

This is the reaming operation. The reamer (like the drill before hand) is chosen for a 10mm thread forming tap hole size. Reaming the hole to size gives more control over finished hole dimensions and % thread engagement.

Wood Automotive tire Wood stain Hardwood Gas


After reaming the holes I come back with the thread forming tap and use the spindle on the mill to make certain the tap is perfectly vertical and the threads will be square with the face of the cap.

Drill presses Milling Jig grinder Wood Machine tool


After the cap is tapped, I use a chamfering tool to remove the raised burr on the cap and lightly block sand the face to remove any metal protrusions the debuting tool may have left.

This is the difference between the OEM 9mm fasteners and the ARP 10mm fasteners. Infact that is one of the ARP 10mm fasteners that you use a thick 1" OD washer with.

Household hardware Wood Automotive tire Fastener Gas


With set up and all it takes a couple of hours to do a set but it is well worth the effort. Don't forget to zero the head on your mill before you start this modification. The first time you torque these side bolts down and they come up to their 62 ft/lb spec with a crisp click on the torque wrench you will be glad you took the time.
 
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#2 ·
Ed, That was a fantastic post about the custom ARP M10 main side cap bolts. I don't have a mill or a drill press so I would probably need a machine shop to handle this modification for me.:angry:
 
#3 ·
Thanks for the props, Jan.

The M10 fasteners are to die for. I remember ten or so years ago when I was trying to get ARP to make the M9 fasteners (they finally elected to do them) I was so fixated on duplicating the OEM fastener I didn't think much about going oversize.

The thread forming tap addresses two of the challenges with the larger M10 fastener. The first is the major diameter / minor diameter overlap the two thread sizes have. The second was the thread quality. With the thread forming tap you can essentially ream to almost the major diameter of the M9 fastener. When you use the thread forming tap it doesn't cut the thread it extrudes the main cap metal into the thread cavity on the tap. There are no chips and by carefully choosing your tap and reamer you can easily attain a 76% or better thread engagement.

The thread quality with the forming tap is nothing short of stunning. The process requires one of the commercial extreme pressure thread forming lubes to be used in the tapping process but when you are done the thread has a polished surface like a mirror and the bolt has the best feel I have ever felt when you assemble a fastener to a part. In the FWIW bucket I found that the ARP UltraLube when added to the extreme pressure lube made the tapping job a little easier and the finished thread looked and felt a lot better.

It is possible to do the job in a drill press you just have to exercise a bit more care at each step of the way. In particular be careful retaining the work when you are drilling, the reaming phase is pretty easy. A machinist's vise on the drill press table would help a lot during drilling.
 
#4 ·
If you go the 10mm side bolt route be sure to use a thread forming tap not a thread cutting tap.Ed
Very nice post Ed, it helps a lot. I do a lot of thread forming in soft metals. I totally agree forming produces a superior thread.

A modification to the caps that will make the regular assembly and disassembly that is done during clearance checking and adjustment easier is a ¼ x 20 or 28 threaded hole in the center of the cap. . .Ed
I don't know the interference fit between the block and the cap but it is substantial. I cringed when I removed the caps. I don't think it can be done many times without hurting the machined fit. I was thinking of warming the block about 100 degrees when I do the install. Using the CTE for aluminum of about 11ppm the crankcase should widen about 0.008". Your thoughts . . . ?
I'm making a small powder coat oven to be used for many things, including lunch! LOL.
Good point, main caps need a provision for a slide hammer.

The Teksid blocks use a threaded steel insert with a hex broached in the center to allow an allen wrench to be used to apply a side load to the cap once it is installed in the block. The hex is broached all the way through so the 8mm side bolt can pass through and into the main cap.Ed
If I go with the 10mm side bolts what happens to the steel inserts? Drilled out? Is there enough meat left for a hex to grip it? What is the recommended side pre-load? Sorry...I need to find a shop manual on eBay. I have Sean Hylan's book around here somewhere but I don't remember it being specific enough like a shop manual. Any recommendations . . . ?

With set up and all it takes a couple of hours to do a set but it is well worth the effort.Ed
Excellent description of the procedure. Many thanks
 
#5 ·
Very nice post Ed, it helps a lot. I do a lot of thread forming in soft metals. I totally agree forming produces a superior thread.
The formed thread is genuinely impressive. Before I used the tap on the first set of main caps I did a test thread in a small block of 1040. As I backed the tap out I was impressed with the feel and appearance of the thread. I put a drop of oil on the thread and on the bolt and screwed them together to do a quick and dirty seat of the pants evaluation. I had never experienced the smooth install of a fastener in a new thread that was anything like that.

As impressed as I was about the assembly as I began to back the bolt out I was in for another surprise. I held the small block of steel between my thumb and second index finger and without thinking placed my first index finger against the back side of the tapped hole. As I backed the bolt out it actually sucked my index finger into the back side of the tapped hole. I was impressed!

I don't know the interference fit between the block and the cap but it is substantial. I cringed when I removed the caps. I don't think it can be done many times without hurting the machined fit. I was thinking of warming the block about 100 degrees when I do the install. Using the CTE for aluminum of about 11ppm the crankcase should widen about 0.008". Your thoughts . . . ?
You math on the CTE is spot on. The interesting thing is that Ford finished the contact surfaces on the caps and where they touch the block with a fairly smooth (low Ra) finish. The hard cap, and smooth surfaces on both the cap and the block allow repeated assembly and disassembly with no apparent erosion of the block surfaces as long as a light coating of oil is present. The block is 356 aluminum if I recall correctly and is heat treated to either a T5 or T6 state. You can tell if you tap the block with a small hammer. It doesn't ring like a steel crank but it is far from the usual thud you get when you tap non heat treated aluminum.

I'm making a small powder coat oven to be used for many things, including lunch! LOL.
Good point, main caps need a provision for a slide hammer.
I have, with increasing frequency lately, thought of making a small oven just for powder coating. I haven't got my butt in gear yet though. The slide hammer is an absolute blessing when you are going through all the pre-assembly fitting and clearance checking. I was a bit squeamish about going too deep in the cap with the anchor hole so I limited it to 1.5 diameters.

If I go with the 10mm side bolts what happens to the steel inserts? Drilled out? Is there enough meat left for a hex to grip it? What is the recommended side pre-load? Sorry...I need to find a shop manual on eBay. I have Sean Hylan's book around here somewhere but I don't remember it being specific enough like a shop manual. Any recommendations . . . ?
I don't recall the torque spec on the inserts for the proper side preload off the top of my head. I'll see if I can find it somewhere. I don't believe Hyland published it in either of the two versions of his book.

I have not done the M10 side bolts for a Teksid although I believe it is possible because John used them on his race engines and they were typically Teksids. Because the cast cap is a little skimpy for casting material at the side bolt entry point, I suspect John may have replaced the cast iron caps with a billet steel cap making more material available for the M10 fastener.

With respect to the adjuster used to preload the main caps, I would almost bet the M10 bolt will not fit through. That said, it may be possible to drill the adjuster just enough to allow the M10 fastener through and still have the corners of the factory broached hex to tighten the adjuster. If not then the adjuster would need to be broached one allen size larger.

Excellent description of the procedure. Many thanks
Thanks for the kind words. These engines are expensive enough to build as is. Whenever it is possible to share knowledge we have already gleaned we try to and I attempt to encourage it. At the top of this forum you will see a sticky named Terminator Table of Contents or TToC for short. It is an index with clickable links to many of the tech threads that can be helpful for engine builders as they go about the process of building these engines.
 
#8 ·
Try here => https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-672-1006. When you use these bolts they will protrude one to two threads into the outer M8 main stud holes. If you want to run the M8 studs then you will need to give the bolts a one to two thread haircut until they no longer protrude into the stud well.

A lot of people will feel uncomfortable about not using the M8 studs. Don't forget the iron blocks the Cobra's came with did not use them either! If it makes you sleep better give the bolts a hair cut. If you are OK w/o the M8 studs save yourself all the work. The washers you need are from McMaster Carr. This is the washer click here => 1" OD HD Washer.

When washers are made they are frequently punched out of plate then heat treated and/or black oxided. These washers are no different. As a result one side is flat with square corners the other side where the die began to cut the washer from the parent steel plate is not. It will have a rounded face at the edge of the washer. This is the side of the washer that needs to face the underside of the bolt head. It also needs to be chamfered to clear the underhead radius.

This is the radius I am speaking about;

Rectangle Font Parallel Auto part Slope
 
#10 ·
Try here => https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-672-1006. When you use these bolts they will protrude one to two threads into the outer M8 main stud holes. If you want to run the M8 studs then you will need to give the bolts a one to two thread haircut until they no longer protrude into the stud well.Ed
I'm still interested in the 10mm bolts. Here is a pic of the Ford threaded inserts I just measured. If the 10mm bolts are truly 0.393 or smaller diameter then they should fit through the inserts without modifying them. Thanks for link to the Summit bolts. They should be better than stock if I can't find something larger.

eschaider=259479 said:
The washers you need are from McMaster Carr. This is the washer click here => 1" OD HD Washer.Ed
Those are nice washers. Kind of handy to have in the shop even if not used for the motor. Like on the highly stressed bolts holding the motor to the engine stand and many other things. I think I get a few of them.
 

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#11 · (Edited)
This side-bolt thingie is kind of scary. The insert pre-load has to be spot on so as not to overstress the side of the crankcase. Using your numbers you are increasing the clamp load more than 100% on both side of the crankcase! If one is not extremely careful in setting preload the case wall could be easily over stressed on what is already a fatigued part. On top of that the mains are trying to pull the bottom out of it. I think that picture you showed me has affected me for life!
:scare:
 
#14 ·
Yes but I fully expect you to implement this in full on the next freshening :)

Actually the work is pretty easy to do at home if you buy a bench top drill press and machinist vise - which at Harbor Freight pricing is much less than what a machine shop would charge you to do the job.

I haven't seen you pop up recently until now. If you haven't already check out the PnP MS3Pro for the Terminators. This is really impressive stuff and if you keep your OEM ECU, you just unplug one and plug in the other at smog certification time and you are home free. When you leave the smog shop go home and swap back to the MS3Pro by unplugging the OEM ECU and Pluggin in the MS3Pro.

The MS3Pro has a lot of nice to have stuff in particular engine saving features that can reduce performance to a limp home mode or shut off the engine entirely. Very nice stuff, very good price point.
 
#15 ·
Oh boy, I feel seriously rusty with wrenches since the engine has been in for long and is running so well - just haven't needed to tinker at all:) Otherwise, just busy with the work stuff (hopefully will get back to your neck of the woods one of these days!).

Will check out the MS3Pro for sure since I actually am hoping to get on a dyno after the Whipple and have the tune checked out. Unfortunately, Jeff Chambers here in Ohio decided to retire and close up shop, which probably caught a lot of us off guard. Had I known, would have jumped in there for sure. In the meantime, hopefully it will get nice here soon and I can put on some more miles!
 
#17 ·
I'm glad I did this. For my Teksid, I upgraded to the 05 9mm ARP side bolts from the 8mm oem.
The 9mm WAP block generation fasteners are a definite step up from the original factory 8mm hardware, Russ.

These 10mm side bolts are as much better than the 9mm fasteners as the 9's were compared to the 8's. Definitely worth the effort if you have the engine apart.
 
#20 ·
Cobra Engineering just released a new Teksid Steel Main cap set that comes with ARP M10 side bolts.


Form Cobra Engineering:

"Teksid block main cap!

These are billet steel and have M10 x 1.25 side bolt threads.
These upgraded bolts do fit in the jack screws
with no modificaton needed.

ARP side bolts and washers included.
$625 "

http://www.cobraengineering.net/main.html
 
#21 ·
James does very nice work. As is so typical of his product offerings these are like jewelry. It is a shame they are hidden inside where they become invisible.

These are great upgrades for Teksid blocks with the smaller cast main caps using the 8mm side bolts and jack screws. The billet steel construction and 10mm side bolts are a welcome upgrade to the less robust OEM caps and small side bolts.

By way of side bolt fastener comparison an 8mm grade 8 bolt has a torque spec (depending on manufacturer) of between 20 and 24 ft/lbs with a total of 5500 to 5800 lbs of clamping force. The 10mm 8740 ARP bolt has a torque spec of 65 ft /bs with a 11,305 lbs of clamping force — more than a 100% increase in clamping force and you have the strength of billet steel in the main caps.
 
#23 ·
Not really, Rob.

These will work in Teksid or Aluminator blocks. I personally prefer the Aluminator blocks but the Teksid has been a long standing go to block for the high power applications. The Teksid mains are cast and are narrower than the billet alternatives that James offers. That doesn't mean you can't modify the Teksid caps for the 10mm fasteners but when you are done they will be thin in the side bolt area and you will probably be essentially the same price as if you had gone the stronger billet cap route. My suggestion would be do the billet upgrade and do not look back — you will be very happy. BTW the 10mm side bolts slip right through the center of the jack screws making for a very nice final assembly.
 
#25 ·
Not really, Rob.

These will work in Teksid or Aluminator blocks. I personally prefer the Aluminator blocks but the Teksid has been a long standing go to block for the high power applications. The Teksid mains are cast and are narrower than the billet alternatives that James offers. That doesn't mean you can't modify the Teksid caps for the 10mm fasteners but when you are done they will be thin in the side bolt area and you will probably be essentially the same price as if you had gone the stronger billet cap route. My suggestion would be do the billet upgrade and do not look back - you will be very happy. BTW the 10mm side bolts slip right through the center of the jack screws making for a very nice final assembly

Ed
Wow ed, I was not aware of the interchangeability between the caps. Thanks!

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
#24 ·
I feel lucky that my 2001 SVT Cobra came from the factory with a Teksid block. Ford must have purged their stock of of the "good" Teksid blocks sometime in mid 2001 before switching over to the less
desirable Windsor aluminum plant block. AT any rate, buying the Cobra Engineering billet steel main cap kit looks like a no brainer mod to me.
 
#28 ·
A few days ago, I spoke with John Mihovetz over at Accufab about upgrading Teksid main bearing caps for my motor and we discussed the use of billet main caps for a 2001 Teksid block application and his basic response was that there is no need to run billet caps. Additionally, John mentioned that he experimented with billet main caps that he constructed and he saw no improvement in long term durability over the factory iron main caps. So, knowing that the Iron Teksid main caps are sufficient for high power usage, I decided to back track on my idea to use billet main caps and just simply reuse the factory iron caps with an upgraded side bolt.

Fast forward to yesterday and the custom Accufab ARP 2000 M10 Teksid main cap side bolts I ordered arrived and they sure look nice!

I don't have a factory Teksid M8 side bolt to show so I grabbed a stainless ARP 12 point M8 bolt that I had lying around to show just how much larger the Accufab ARP Main cap side bolts are
Cylinder Tool Gas Composite material Nickel


The custom Accufab main cap side bolt uses ARP 2000 material
Cap Gesture Finger Art Wood
 
#29 ·
I used those side bolts in my Hyland block, Jan. They are certainly a very nice side bolt and when you torque them down they come up to the 62# torque spec with a consistent pull and predictable click on the torque wrench. Absolutely a very nice bolt! When I bought mine from John they were around $20 or so each. I seem to recall with shipping and tax they came in somewhere between $240 and $250 for all ten without washers.

When you install them, the bolts are all the same length but the main bearing bore is not centered between the crankcase skirts. The upshot of the off center main tunnel is you need to use thin but hardened washers with a different thicknesess on each side of the block to keep the side bolts from hitting the 8 mm outer main studs. The problem was aggravated on my Hyland block becaus the outboard main studs were the larger diameter ARP/Hyland 10mm studs. The standard 8mm stud has an extra mm of clearance all around it but you will still need to check each one for interference just to be safe.

Something you might want to consider is not using the 8mm outer studs at all. At first this sounds a little scary but it is not. Their contribution to the bottom end, while more than zero, is still relatively insignificant, especially when you consider the additional strength the 10mm side bolts bring to the table. Also worth mentioning is all the original iron Cobra blocks only used two 10 mm main studs and those diminutive OEM side bolts. By not using the outer 8mm main studs you can sink the new 10mm side bolts deeper into the main cap for a stronger coupling.

Post #1 in this thread provides a picture of the 10mm Accufab fasteners next to the 9MM OEM fasteners. The difference between the two different fasteners is stark. For those readers who are contemplating this modification, don't forget to check out the beginning of the thread. It will show you how to do the less costly ARP 12 point 10mm bolt with a 45mm UHL upgrade that can save you about $200 and provide a similar if not the same improvement in strength. The ARP sourced OTC (Over the Counter) fasteners are less expensive at just under $4 a piece instead of the $20 something price tag for the Accufab custom piece - which is not only very pretty but also very good. The ARP OTC solution will require HD hard steel washers which are available from McMaster-Carr. The Accufab solution will also require a thin but hardened washer in two different thicknesses to both protect the block from the steel bolt as you tighten it and also position the bolt so it does not hit your outer 8mm main studs, if you elect to keep them. This is a link to the washers at McMaster for the Summit sourced ARP 12 point bolts, click here => Side Bolt Washers

The OTC ARP 12 pt 10mm alternative with washers is more than a little more cost effective. The total cost of fasteners comes to a little less than $40 for bolts and $10 for washers vs $240 to $250 for, admittedly a prettier fastener and 2000 steel from Accufab vs 8740 steel from ARP. That said the torque for the side bolts in either 8740 or 2000 steel is identical at 62 ft/lbs so the clamping loads are virtually identical. Be sure to use a thread forming tap when you tap the caps. The quality of the finished thread is nothing short of stunning.
 
#30 ·
Good stuff as usual Ed. For those folks who want to save a bit of money, the over the counter bolts are a good idea. However, I am happy that I got the Accufab bolts. Additionally, even though I will build the motor myself, I will have a machine shop to drill out the Tekisid main caps on a precision Bridgeport drill press as that is what John Mihovetz recommended I do.

Jan
 
#31 ·
John's recommendation is on the mark (as is typical), Jan. That is also the same way I did my caps in both the SHM block and my Aluminator block. Be sure to require the shop to use a thread forming tap. There are multiple good reasons for the thread forming tap. The major diameter of the 9mm WAP threads exceeds the tap drill diameter of a 10 mm cutting tap which means thread interruptions in the finished cut thread and a compromised thread..

A second reason to use the thread forming tap is the stunning quality of the finished thread. When I did my caps I cut a test thread in a block of similar steel to get familiar with the thread forming process without damaging a main cap.. After the tap finished forming the thread, I screwed a bolt in to see how the threads felt. I thought I was turning the barrel on a micrometer the fit was so intimate and smooth. The real stunner was as I screwed the bolt out. I held the test piece between my thumb and second index finger with my first index finger against the backside of the bolt hole. As I backed the bolt out it sucked my index finger into the back of the newly threaded test piece. I was sold on thread forming taps at that instant!

A third reason to use the thread forming tap is the finished thread is the internal equivalent of the external rolled threads on the ARP fastener. The fastener's rolled threads and the main cap's formed threads are the strongest thread forms possible. Side bolts are not a bad place to use that sort of technology. BTW tap drill sizes are different for formed threads than they are for cut threads. Here is a chart (below) for forming tap drill sizes. The M10 x 1.25 data will produce a 75% thread engagement which is about as good as it gets.

A word of caution on drilled holes, even in a mill. The finished hole is always oversize so I usually drill it one drill size too small and finish ream it, to get an exact size for a job like this.

You will love the big side bolts.
 

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