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Installing the CHE K Member Brace with torque limiters today but....

11K views 61 replies 13 participants last post by  Justastockmustang 
#1 · (Edited)
CHE K Member Brace with Torque Limiters Beware of Torque Settings

scroll down a bit for the problem. post 14 on
 
#6 ·
Grab a cold one and get back under there and wrench boy! It's not gonna come out while your on the computer!
 
#7 ·
If you can't get a breaker bar in there somehow, make sure you are using the best body position you can. Ideally you can position yourself under the car so that your big muscles (shoulders, upper back legs possibly) are doing the majority of the work. If you just put a wrench on it and try to arm it loose, you won't get very far without exceptional arm strength. Or the taco idea is a good one.

I also recall something about certain K member nuts being welded? Are those the same that you're trying to loosen? I haven't done the brace so I'm not sure....
 
#8 ·
I just used 2 open end boxed end wrenches.

Just place one wrenchs box end on the nut then hook the 2nd wrech's boxed end over the opened end of the wrench. This works good because they do not have to run paralell to each other and can fit in some tight areas and you get a whole wrech worth of extra leverage.
 
#9 ·
ok guys. i got it off. CHE K member brace is in and torqued down. im installing the torque limiters now and am almsot done. i do have a question though and its stumped me. it says on step 4:

"Tighten the bushing jam nut until the bushings are compressed to nearlly the diameter of the bushing washers. Do not tighten the bushing assembly so much that the bushing diameter is greater than or equal to that of the bushing washers or bushing failure will become possible"

What the heck does that mean?

This is the link for the instructions:

CHE Performance Products

and this is the picture for the step i am on

 
#10 ·
The rubber will fatten out as you synch them. As they grow, match the washer size.
 
#11 ·
OH when I re-read it says nearly the washer size....
 
#13 ·
Well then, I am going to put mine on now as well! I am goin to head out to the shop in a few minutes. I wanted to say that since I have the BMR K-Member brace I had to cut 1 3/8" off of the top of the vertical mount tubing. If I had not done this I would have had to have a much longer bolt and the unit would have been too low in my view.

Wish me luck breaking the bolts loose. I lift regularly so I think I can kick their ass.....(even at my age).
 
#15 · (Edited)
dont do it. i just snapped one off in the bellhousing. i tightened with a regular ratchet until i couldnt move it anymore. set the torque wrench to 85 and on the 4th turn it snapped. no click on the wrench, nothing
 
#18 ·
of course not that would be too easy. it is completely in the bellhousing in the tunnel by about an inch and a half at least. i can feel the bolt on the other side though it is almost flush but isnt sticking out to turn it with the grips
 
#21 ·
Bummer man, I feel for you! Let this be a word of caution for the rest of you. 85 ft/lbs is too much torque IMHO.
SHIT! I am glad I jsut came in for a break. I am at that point. Guess i will use my good sense and then check them periodically. At least you all saved this guy.
 
#23 ·
:angry:, This is the SECOND customer that this has happened to this week.

When I installed mine last week, I DID not even get close to 85 ft lbs before I thought It was too tight, I was up to maybe ~45 when I stopped.

I will be sure EVERYONE that is in on our current GP of them gets a memo that states that the torque specs are wrong, and I will be contacting CHE directly monday to let them know about this issue.

Sorry this happened to you Ron, let me know if we can be off assistance in ANY way!

Josh
 
#24 ·
When installing mine I did not torque to 85. As already stated that is to much. I just went by feel on the bellhousing bolts prolly 40-50.
 
#25 ·
Josh, I just put mine on (FINALLY!) that I bought from you on the first round. I have read here about guys getting longer bolts if they had the BMR K-Member BUT I did not want it to hang down any lower.

I have the BMR K-Member and this is what I did to make it a better install in my view:

I cut 1 3/8 off of the top of the tube. The crossbar is up where it should be and it has about 1 1/2 turns for added compression to shorten the turnbuckle after it is fitted. So DO NOT cut any more than 1 3/8" as it would shorten it up too much for adjustment. A better number might be: "cut off 1 1/4" from the top of the tube". IF one did cut too much off they would have to cut the aluminum part of the turnbucikle shorter to compensate for the fit. I got lucky with my 1 3/8 cut!

I am a lucky soul on that torque number post!!! I was in for a break and that was my next step of the install!!! i popped up the thread as I was posting in it. AND I always torque as noted...so , who knows if I would have sensed too much and stopped. I doubt it.

If you can pass along my tip about cutting to better fit the BMR K-Member, I think it would be a better installation. The supplied bolts worked fine as well.

I think it is a nice piece, I appreciated the Group Buy! Thank you.

Russ
 
#26 ·
Josh, I just put mine on (FINALLY!) that I bought from you on the first round. I have read here about guys getting longer bolts if they had the BMR K-Member BUT I did not want it to hang down any lower.

I have the BMR K-Member and this is what I did to make it a better install in my view:

I cut 1 3/8 off of the top of the tube. The crossbar is up where it should be and it has about 1 1/2 turns for added compression to shorten the turnbuckle after it is fitted. So DO NOT cut any more than 1 3/8" as it would shorten it up too much for adjustment. A better number might be: "cut off 1 1/4" from the top of the tube". IF one did cut too much off they would have to cut the aluminum part of the turnbucikle shorter to compensate for the fit. I got lucky with my 1 3/8 cut!

I am a lucky soul on that torque number post!!! I was in for a break and that was my next step of the install!!! i popped up the thread as I was posting in it. AND I always torque as noted...so , who knows if I would have sensed too much and stopped. I doubt it.

If you can pass along my tip about cutting to better fit the BMR K-Member, I think it would be a better installation. The supplied bolts worked fine as well.

I think it is a nice piece, I appreciated the Group Buy! Thank you.

Russ
NO PROBLEM. Glad you like them :beerchug:.

Anyway you can get us some good pictures of it installed with the BMR K-Member? I want to put the BMR K-Memeber on my car and Keep my K-memeber brace and TL and was going to do whatever modifications nessicery.

I would really like to see photos if you get a chance.

Thanks,
Josh
 
#37 · (Edited)
just a quick question as well. ive never broken a bolt before in a car or whatever. who would i call to do this if i cant get it out myself?
I suggest someone that has a right angle drill, a tranfer punch, and a left handed drill bit. (You may get a LH drill bit at a machine shop or shop supply house)

I have a set of "tranfer Punches". They will be of various shank sizes. The idea is to have it just fit into the hole so it will not move off center when you strike it with a hammer.
I would then go after it with a 1/4" or 5/16" left handed bit (anything that is smaller than the bolt itself yet large enough to provide a decent hole for your "easy out").
If no one has a left handed drill bit get a normal one. You just are afforded a chance it will drive right out if you use the left handed one.

I would take a transfer punch and strike it to put a "center" in the busted part of the bolt. I would then go after it with a 1/4" or 5/16" left handed drill bit. Two things can happen. You will drill it deep enough to get an easy out in it and then you twist it out.. OR (I have had this happen before!! and it is why I suggest a left handed bit) It will cut a bit into it and then back out the bolt as you drill it

Whoever you call just give them a bit of this discussion and they will know if they can do it or not.

What side broke off?

Russ
 
#36 ·
#40 · (Edited)
Head Marking Grade/Class,


Grade/Call Material
Class 10.9 Alloy Steel, Quenched and Tempered

Nominal Size Range(inches)
All Sizes thru 1-1/2

Proof Load(psi)
120,000

Min. Yield Strength(psi)
130,000

Min. Tensile Strength(psi)
150,000

Info from this site:
Bolt Depot - Bolt Grade Markings and Strength Chart

The factory bolts are one of these:
9.8 M1.6-M16 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 650 720 900 30N58 C27 C36 9.8 9.8 M1.6-M16 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 650 720 900 30N58 C27 C36 9.8

Metric Bolt Properties, Grades, and Strength
 
#41 ·
Head Marking Grade/Class,


Grade/Call Material
Class 10.9 Alloy Steel, Quenched and Tempered

Nominal Size Range(inches)
All Sizes thru 1-1/2

Proof Load(psi)
120,000

Min. Yield Strength(psi)
130,000

Min. Tensile Strength(psi)
150,000

Info from this site:
Bolt Depot - Bolt Grade Markings and Strength Chart

The factory bolts are one of these:
9.8 M1.6-M16 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 650 720 900 30N58 C27 C36 9.8 9.8 M1.6-M16 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 650 720 900 30N58 C27 C36 9.8

Metric Bolt Properties, Grades, and Strength
Ron, yeah the factory bolt is a tough one as I thought BUT what about the one you broke off? It was the CHE bolt right? I think it was softer... Were you able to compare the two with a file?
 
#42 ·
well the CHE bolt was the 10.9. the factory was a 9.8 i think the CHE is stronger based on that no?

well upon further testing. i dont have a file, but i do have a pair of *****. i scratched the CHE bolt and it not only scratched it but definately started to cut the surface a bit. i did it to the factory bolt and it barely scratched it.
 
#43 ·
well the CHE bolt was the 10.9. the factory was a 9.8 i think the CHE is stronger based on that no?

well upon further testing. i dont have a file, but i do have a pair of *****. i scratched the CHE bolt and it not only scratched it but definately started to cut the surface a bit. i did it to the factory bolt and it barely scratched it.
I got to get off and head out to haunted houses...(family gig).

Be sure to run a low rpm on the bit and push hard to get a decent feed rate. You will want to keep it cutting as it turns and not work harden the bolt or dull the drill bit. IT might go perfect for you! sometimes it does....

wow I am surprised the CHE was rated higher. It didn't strike me that it was. I sure hope it goes good for you, this really sucks... I used to own a shop and we handled stuff like this easily because we didn't attempt anything with the wrong tooling.

I hope you can take your mind off of this for the rest of the night. Make a good plan, and do it.
 
#44 · (Edited)
So yeah this would have been wonderful information to know BEFORE my install last night.

I mean the instructions being a little misleading fine...no big deal. Its obvious that you cant use the bolt above the starter on the V-8 manual because the limiter wont reach it and there's not a bolt on the other side at the same position.

But torque specs being off is big big F'in deal.

This guy broke a bolt off...yeah that sucks...luckily he didnt strip the block out because that's more of a PITA to fix....

Luckily for me, the block did not strip out, and the bolt did not break. I did however tighten that bastard to 85 ft. lbs. JUST LIKE THE INSTRUCTIONS SAID!

And of course when testing it I put it through the ringer, so hopefully torqing that bastard down over 2 1/2 times what it should be didnt cause it to fail when I was testing it out.

I do have a Ford manual...i couldnt find a diagram of the actual bellhousing bolt but it says this in the tranny removal section:

Remove the 8 transmission-to-engine bolts.
  • To install, tighten 45 Nm (33 lb-ft).
So the question is (almost obvious) should I loosen that sucker up to 33ft lbs now? Or has the aluminum on the block been stressed enough where it might not hold tight at 33lbs anymore?

thanks.

Chris.

Edit:
just got off phone w/ Kevin at PMPparts-very helpful, thanks for the quick info. Obviously they need to be loosend, but 40-45 ft lbs seem to be in the right area.
 
#45 ·
So yeah this would have been wonderful information to know BEFORE my install last night.

I mean the instructions being a little misleading fine...no big deal. Its obvious that you cant use the bolt above the starter on the V-8 manual because the limiter wont reach it and there's not a bolt on the other side at the same position.

But torque specs being off is big big F'in deal.

This guy broke a bolt off...yeah that sucks...luckily he didnt strip the block out because that's more of a PITA to fix....

Luckily for me, the block did not strip out, and the bolt did not break. I did however tighten that bastard to 85 ft. lbs. JUST LIKE THE INSTRUCTIONS SAID!

And of course when testing it I put it through the ringer, so hopefully torqing that bastard down over 2 1/2 times what it should be didnt cause it to fail when I was testing it out.

I do have a Ford manual...i couldnt find a diagram of the actual bellhousing bolt but it says this in the tranny removal section:

Remove the 8 transmission-to-engine bolts.
  • To install, tighten 45 Nm (33 lb-ft).
So the question is (almost obvious) should I loosen that sucker up to 33ft lbs now? Or has the aluminum on the block been stressed enough where it might not hold tight at 33lbs anymore?

thanks.

Chris.
i would absolutely loosen it to the 33 ft/lbs. i did on my one remaining bolt. dont put added stress on something that doesnt need to be there. if you leave it and the torque limiter does its job, the stress could be transfered to the bolt and snap it while your driving. retoque it to the proper ft/lbs
 
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