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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array sacstoy02gt's Avatar
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    Default Re: KB 810 HP/ 745 ft/lbs Shelby GT500 kit

    Wow!!!!

    my little 1.7 seems so inadequate now...

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  3. #17

    Default Re: KB 810 HP/ 745 ft/lbs Shelby GT500 kit

    God Dayum!!!!

    I need one...

    Anybody wanta buy a my Cobras?

  4. #18

    Default Re: KB 810 HP/ 745 ft/lbs Shelby GT500 kit

    Very impressive Jim. Couple of questions if I may.

    1. Is this flywheel HP? Usually you always saw rwhp, but nothing distinguished if this was one or the other. I'm assuming it's rwhp, which is just awesome.
    2.On your site, with your GT HCD, you state that the 2 1/2" pulley makes 18psi on the Ford GT. This is a 2.3 liter SC. The 2.8 liter only has 19psi with the same pulley size (2 1/2")? The 2.3 would be pumping approx. 1350cfm (flowed on our tester). A SC .5 liter larger with similar VE should have 1645cfm! Thats 295cfm difference. Just by my calculations, that should be a minimum of 4psi of boost increase which would be 22psi. Is the 2.8 that low on boost or is the 810 on 19psi a misprint? 1psi of boost increase for .5liter larger SC seems really low.

    From my testing, I found that the Ford GT had 19psi peak with a 2 1/2" pulley, stock exhaust. Our W210 has 19psi with a 3 1/2" pulley.
    On the GT, our W140 has 15psi with a 2 3/4" and the W200 has 21psi with a 3 1/2". We also found that the GT has a more free flowing exhaust, so the Shelby has approx. 1psi more boost with the same pulley sizes.

    Great numbers, keep up the good work!

    Dustin

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  6. #19
    Senior Member Array Orlando Whipple's Avatar
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    Default Re: KB 810 HP/ 745 ft/lbs Shelby GT500 kit

    It's always awesome to see owners of Competing co's talk so civil and with respect. I think it truly shows the charachter of the companies when we see this. I think Whipple and KB are two companies that must be such awesome places to work right now. It must be so exciting knowing that your products are literally changing the face of what is considered Streetable useable power these days.

    Where would we all be if these two guys were not competing?? 700 plus totally streetable pump gas power ... All thanks to these co's. In my opinion Whipple and KB, in the near future will continue to produce incredible products that are reaching Volumetric efficiencies that are seriously threatening the argument of going Turbo.

    Let's face it... if these blowers continue to get more efficient, they will continue to use up less power to drive them...

    Yeah turbos are great, but in my opinion--there is no comparison to the "HIT" of a Positive Displacement SC. Not to mention ease of installation / less things to fabricate / rattle /self contained lubrication systems / e.t.c...

    This news IS and WILL coninue to send a massive SHOCKWAVE through the Automotive performance world. 700 plus on Pump gas??? You have go to be kidding me.

    This is the first test too.. I have to imagine... the 3.3 will (if not already) post similar if not higher numbers--would have to imagine higher.

    What's even more amazing is that this unbelieveably only the beginning!

    THink back guys and gals... A measely 3 years ago, we were given the 03 Cobra. 500 rear wheel was amazing for a street driven daily driver! 11.0 at 125 plus on Drag radials.... that was insane... 700-750 rear wheel??? Daily Driver?? Low 10's at 138ish??? Possibly High 9's with slicks and drive it home with no issues??

    I personal THANK YOU to both companies. In my opinion they are the most significant companies aiding in actual true street performance/ daily driven monsters in the last 5 years.

    Chris Saunier
    The DDD Directory
    The DDD Directory - Everything Automotive

  7. #20

    Default Re: KB 810 HP/ 745 ft/lbs Shelby GT500 kit

    Word - what he said^^^^^

  8. #21
    Senior Member Array Jim Ferraro's Avatar
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    Default Re: KB 810 HP/ 745 ft/lbs Shelby GT500 kit

    Quote Originally Posted by Orlando Whipple View Post
    It's always awesome to see owners of Competing co's talk so civil and with respect. I think it truly shows the charachter of the companies when we see this. I think Whipple and KB are two companies that must be such awesome places to work right now. It must be so exciting knowing that your products are literally changing the face of what is considered Streetable useable power these days.

    Where would we all be if these two guys were not competing?? 700 plus totally streetable pump gas power ... All thanks to these co's. In my opinion Whipple and KB, in the near future will continue to produce incredible products that are reaching Volumetric efficiencies that are seriously threatening the argument of going Turbo.

    Let's face it... if these blowers continue to get more efficient, they will continue to use up less power to drive them...

    Chris Saunier
    The DDD Directory
    The DDD Directory - Everything Automotive
    Definitely amazing.

    Eating up another 40HP of parasitic loss agruably "couldn't be done" until now.

    If the parasitc loss can be cut down this much with a blower, why go turbo?

    It may even be possible, with this setup and a proper tune, you might get better than stock mileage (under mild to moderate driving) due to the efficiency of the blower and less parasitic loss.

    Obviously, parasitic loss translates into load, and equal power at a given RPM under less calc engine load almost always = better mileage.

    Truly amazing.

    Tuners around the world will need some time alone after seeing this

  9. #22
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    Default Re: KB 810 HP/ 745 ft/lbs Shelby GT500 kit

    Dustin,
    It's unusual for any competitor to post on our Tech section but I'll address your questions and concerns.
    1) Of course the HP numbers are Dynojet rear wheel HP. Check out the graphs on the post.
    2) No misprints. Yes, the boost was 19 psi(actually 18.93 psi at 6200 on our data acquisition system). And, no, the 2.8H is not "low on boost". Just the opposite. I think what may be confusing you and invites comparison is the 19 psi boost we claim is measured AFTER or into the engine and not BEFORE the intercooler - the same way the stock boost is measured. Your calculations say our 2.8H should be producing another 4 psi or 22 psi. It does which I believe is a tribute to the new 2.8H. Actually the 2.8H is developing even MORE boost - 24.8 psi BEFORE the intercooler. That's almost 3 psi over your calculation (24.8 - 22 = 2.8 psi) To make 810 rear wheel HP, this thing has to pump a lot of air. Obviously it does just that.
    The Shelby intercooler has more pressure loss because it's smaller than the old '03 Cobra and we're making 810 RWHP instead of 610 @ 19 psi. So our kit required more supercharger boost IN to over come the higher friction losses of the intercooler. The higher temps created by the 24 psi were largely offset by the cooler charge temp of the new 2.8H design.
    3) The GT also reads boost AFTER the intercooler and it's higher. Our tests indicate the GT with the Lysholm 2.3 never made 19 psi but instead 18 psi. It dropped from a peak of 18 psi to 16.5 psi at 6500 so I guess it depends if you're talking peak boost, boost at peak rpm or ?. We data log boost from 2000 - 6500 on all our dyno runs. With a 2 3/4 pulley the Lysholm 2.3 matches your 15 psi test with the Whipple 2.3(W140). I guess that says both the Whipple 2.3 and Lysholm 2.3 make 15 peak psi and flow the same. The Lysholm was also dropping off boost at high rpm from 15 to 14 psi.
    4) Yes, I agree that the GT has better flowing exhaust which makes our 810 HP vs. 710 HP for the GT even more impressive. Exhaust , cams, heads, headers or any component that increases engine exhaust side breathing will make the engine (pump #1) appear larger to the charger (pump #2) and require it to pump more air to compensate for the boost loss from improved breathing. We're utilizing a new BIG BORE advanced rotor design with a unique 2.0 internal pressure ratio along with some new techniques in kit design wherein we're optimizing our supercharger for particular boost levels, intercoolers, inlet systems, temperatures etc.. To put it another way, the 2.8H '07 Shelby kit is a highly refined supercharger with optimized components. We like to think it's a "max" kit that is a tribute to the Twin Screw supercharger concept. Dustin, you and I both know that we have to keep improving the efficiency of the Twin Screw.
    As for efficiency (volume, temperature and power consumption) supercharger air flow and power consumption, we too rely on calculations and the supercharger dyno just as Whipple does. However, we only use them as references because supercharger applications(kit inlet components, engine size and type, intercooler efficiency etc. etc.) vary so much. Same for calibrating. Our experiences is that we must do our own in house kit calibration. That consumes 90% of our time leaving 10% for supercharger testing on the flow bench. As you well know, there's more to making killer HP that just a supercharger. I hope I've answered your questions.
    Hopefully, our 2.8H kit makes so much HP that our customers won't need to even consider headers, cams, head, etc. - or even Nitrous. That means more supercharger sales for Kenne Bell and Whipple.
    Thank you,
    Jim Bell
    P.S. You say "our W210 (3.44L) has 19 psi with a 3 1/2 pulley". Then you go on to say "the W200 (3.27L) has 21 psi with a 3 1/2". Is that a misprint? Now I've got a question for you? How did you manage to get the smaller W200 to make 21 psi with a 3 1/2 and the larger W210 to produce less boost?(19 psi)

  10. #23

    Default Re: KB 810 HP/ 745 ft/lbs Shelby GT500 kit

    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Dustin,
    It's unusual for any competitor to post on our Tech section but I'll address your questions and concerns.
    1) Of course the HP numbers are Dynojet rear wheel HP. Check out the graphs on the post.
    2) No misprints. Yes, the boost was 19 psi(actually 18.93 psi at 6200 on our data acquisition system). And, no, the 2.8H is not "low on boost". Just the opposite. I think what may be confusing you and invites comparison is the 19 psi boost we claim is measured AFTER or into the engine and not BEFORE the intercooler - the same way the stock boost is measured. Your calculations say our 2.8H should be producing another 4 psi or 22 psi. It does which I believe is a tribute to the new 2.8H. Actually the 2.8H is developing even MORE boost - 24.8 psi BEFORE the intercooler. That's almost 3 psi over your calculation (24.8 - 22 = 2.8 psi) To make 810 rear wheel HP, this thing has to pump a lot of air. Obviously it does just that.
    The Shelby intercooler has more pressure loss because it's smaller than the old '03 Cobra and we're making 810 RWHP instead of 610 @ 19 psi. So our kit required more supercharger boost IN to over come the higher friction losses of the intercooler. The higher temps created by the 24 psi were largely offset by the cooler charge temp of the new 2.8H design.
    3) The GT also reads boost AFTER the intercooler and it's higher. Our tests indicate the GT with the Lysholm 2.3 never made 19 psi but instead 18 psi. It dropped from a peak of 18 psi to 16.5 psi at 6500 so I guess it depends if you're talking peak boost, boost at peak rpm or ?. We data log boost from 2000 - 6500 on all our dyno runs. With a 2 3/4 pulley the Lysholm 2.3 matches your 15 psi test with the Whipple 2.3(W140). I guess that says both the Whipple 2.3 and Lysholm 2.3 make 15 peak psi and flow the same. The Lysholm was also dropping off boost at high rpm from 15 to 14 psi.
    4) Yes, I agree that the GT has better flowing exhaust which makes our 810 HP vs. 710 HP for the GT even more impressive. Exhaust , cams, heads, headers or any component that increases engine exhaust side breathing will make the engine (pump #1) appear larger to the charger (pump #2) and require it to pump more air to compensate for the boost loss from improved breathing. We're utilizing a new BIG BORE advanced rotor design with a unique 2.0 internal pressure ratio along with some new techniques in kit design wherein we're optimizing our supercharger for particular boost levels, intercoolers, inlet systems, temperatures etc.. To put it another way, the 2.8H '07 Shelby kit is a highly refined supercharger with optimized components. We like to think it's a "max" kit that is a tribute to the Twin Screw supercharger concept. Dustin, you and I both know that we have to keep improving the efficiency of the Twin Screw.
    As for efficiency (volume, temperature and power consumption) supercharger air flow and power consumption, we too rely on calculations and the supercharger dyno just as Whipple does. However, we only use them as references because supercharger applications(kit inlet components, engine size and type, intercooler efficiency etc. etc.) vary so much. Same for calibrating. Our experiences is that we must do our own in house kit calibration. That consumes 90% of our time leaving 10% for supercharger testing on the flow bench. As you well know, there's more to making killer HP that just a supercharger. I hope I've answered your questions.
    Hopefully, our 2.8H kit makes so much HP that our customers won't need to even consider headers, cams, head, etc. - or even Nitrous. That means more supercharger sales for Kenne Bell and Whipple.
    Thank you,
    Jim Bell
    P.S. You say "our W210 (3.44L) has 19 psi with a 3 1/2 pulley". Then you go on to say "the W200 (3.27L) has 21 psi with a 3 1/2". Is that a misprint? Now I've got a question for you? How did you manage to get the smaller W200 to make 21 psi with a 3 1/2 and the larger W210 to produce less boost?(19 psi)
    Jim,

    Thanks for the great info. As for the 210 and 200, there one and the same. As stated previously, because we named the compressor before we actually built them, we stuck with the name/description. But in all reality, there is a minimum of 3% higher flow than previous 3.3L compressors.

    To clarify, the Ford GT with W210 or W200, has 19psi in the engine, below the intercooler with a 3.5" SC pulley, stock TB, stock inlet system, FRPP muffler system. We haven't released all our findings on the Shelby system and the new W210HPR but I certainly have seen quite a bit of pressure drop, although I haven't sene 5psi+. One thing that might be different is that our compressor discharge is wide open, giving more area for it to flow equally above the intercooler, negating some psi drop. When calculating, I was estimating 3-4psi of psi drop above the IC. I did misprint when stating the GT had 15psi, I meant the Shelby GT had 15psi with our W140. I've never run the 140 on the Ford GT, just the Lysholm and our W210. All these GT's in the titles gets me sometimes Again, thanks for the excellent post.

    Thanks,
    Dustin

  11. #24
    Senior Member Array DISTRBD's Avatar
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    Default Re: KB 810 HP/ 745 ft/lbs Shelby GT500 kit

    WOW!

  12. #25
    Member Array splurgn's Avatar
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    Default Re: KB 810 HP/ 745 ft/lbs Shelby GT500 kit

    i know what i want from santa this year

  13. #26

    Default Re: KB 810 HP/ 745 ft/lbs Shelby GT500 kit

    Any idea on what the kit will cost and when it will be out?

  14. #27

    Default Re: KB 810 HP/ 745 ft/lbs Shelby GT500 kit

    Quote Originally Posted by 10th03cobra View Post
    Any idea on what the kit will cost and when it will be out?
    Already making plans, huh Jeff........

  15. #28

    Default Re: KB 810 HP/ 745 ft/lbs Shelby GT500 kit

    Quote Originally Posted by dun4791 View Post
    Already making plans, huh Jeff........

    Maybe

  16. #29
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    Default Re: KB 810 HP/ 745 ft/lbs Shelby GT500 kit

    Not sure about the price yet as the owner is still gathering costs but I would say maybe something around what the '03-'04 Cobra kit is but don't quote me on that. The kit is looking at being released between the 1st and 15th of January.

    Thank you,
    James

  17. #30
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    Default Re: KB 810 HP/ 745 ft/lbs Shelby GT500 kit

    nice...
    how come on the dyno chart the lines are not smooth...does the tune need some cleaning up?

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