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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, my car isnt done, but will be soon. However I got to listen to it after it was put back together before the tuning is done. SOUNDS WICKED. One hell of a lope. ANYWAYS, do any of you experience some valve train noise even after its installed and tuned?

Heres the thing. Its all setup right, and it does sound ALOT better than it did from what I hear. You can still hear the valve noise from the aggressive ramp speed that the cams have though. Is this normal? I would hate to be sitting at a light and have the valvetrain making noticable noise.

Do the cams actually ever lose contact with the lifters, or is the noise created from the valves re-seating? I need to know from the rest of you who use Comp Cams if this stuff is normal. Will the noise be less as the rpms increase? Anyways, it will be tuned Thursday. CANT WAIT TO GET IT BACK.
 

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jimfitzgerald said:
My engine is a little noisey, but it's hard to hear it over the exhaust. It's nothing I've ever been concerned about.
Jim, your too funny.

So tell me, what's the little women think of your car now? Still only $2K invested, right? ;)
 

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Technical details of 2V job

Gentlemen, To put to rest the technical questions.

We CNC ported stanggt00's 2V cylinder heads which would improve output 50-100 HP depending on configurations.

Stanggt00 contracted us to port the heads and set spring pressure only, due to budget constraints.

Stanggt00 supplied his own parts that we inspected for fitness of use on the bench as a professional courtesy.

We also called Comp Cams , as a courtesy; no fee, due to our concern of missing parts that the customer did not engineer into the job. Comp gave a partial list, neglecting the timing gear spacer.

Valve to valve guide clearance, average of .002", which is acceptable.

Valve springs as installed - 85-90 lbs seat, 200 lbs open, Consistent with Comp's design. Spring stack open, .090" clearance.

Lifter preload as inspected was .050". Retainer to seal clearance over .080". No interference noted at any locations.

The above valve open and interference checks are only based upon Comp Cams published max lift figures. The budget restraints precluded us from inspecting the cam for manufacturing accuracy. We relied on Comp for that.

The above checks are reasonable in scope for the application. One could always increase the level of detail on a job if the budget was unlimited.

We at L&M Engines are not bashful about admitting mistakes and rectifying them. We all make mistakes, human or an act of god.
If we could find fault in the job we would give the customer a course of action. We believe the job is priority over the finger pointing.

We have seen noisy cam lobe designs, and some performance designs are noisy through design, faulty or otherwise.

Stanggt00 has been a gentleman with L&M throughout this ordeal, patient in the face of frustration. We hope his solution is not delayed.

Regards, Michael Rauscher
 

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My car has Comp Cams as well as a friends car and there is no valvetrain noise.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the technical info Michael. There are only a handfull of people who post here who are worth you taking your time and posting that info though. The rest of them think you and JD are F'd up. Atleast thats how I took their replies in some of the posts to my thread "Head/cam install problems". I will be sure to drive by when I get it done so you can check it out. Cya round, Ron.
 

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Well i have comps with NO noise.


How was the lifter preload checked?
Was it checked per comps specs?

Not bashing the company doing the work they only did what the customer could pay for.

But if there is valve train noise something wasnt set up properly.
I suggesat before bashing a well known company like comp that you contact them and get there input.

I was the FIRST customer of the billet cams for the 4.6 SOHC motor.SO i have room to talk .But i also had the money for my machinest to properly setup my cams .But either way i needed no shims.

But again the only person to blame here is the customer,for trying to cheap out while building a motor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
$1800 for the machine work cheaping out? RIGHT! BEEN THERE DONE THAT WITH CONTACTING COMP. From the start of the project Comp has been involved. With springs required, preload specs everything. So, you think Comp had no idea what was being done? Guess again. They said the stcok springs would work. They said the cams are new design and needed shims. This thread had nothing to do with Comp, just asking people about how their valve train sounds. I guess Jim Fitz is stupid too then since he has slight valve train noise with Comps new blower cam?
 

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Re: Technical details of 2V job

Michael-L&M said:
Gentlemen, To put to rest the technical questions.

We also called Comp Cams , as a courtesy; no fee, due to our concern of missing parts that the customer did not engineer into the job. Comp gave a partial list, neglecting the timing gear spacer.

Valve to valve guide clearance, average of .002", which is acceptable.

Valve springs as installed - 85-90 lbs seat, 200 lbs open, Consistent with Comp's design. Spring stack open, .090" clearance.

Lifter preload as inspected was .050". Retainer to seal clearance over .080". No interference noted at any locations.

Based on the above statements .You found the problem but neglected to fix it.

Here is the problem.
You measure a preload of .050 .That right there should have told you the problem.

And based on if you had contacted comp they would have relayed you the info.
THe reason i say so,is i worked closely with comp for over a year to get my cams .As a matter of fact ,i had the FIRST set of modular cams available to the public.

The factory preload is around .120".But Any thing above .080"is good(aka no noise).
Anything under that is BAD .

SO the noise is bad a valve not seated correctly and\or the seat not allowing the valve to be at the porper installed height.

This info was passed to me by comp when i got my cams.
Because they were worried about a base circle being .015" below their engineering specs.

And before anyone feels free to call B.S. PLEASE contact dennis miles @ comp cams and refer to the above and you will find out the info is the same.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
I am glad Dennis Miles worked so closely with you. He was doing the same with me, i mean the shop building the heads, and he came up with the shim thing, or agreed with one of the other techs. Originally they said using factory springs anything above .080 was fine. Set them to .100 and that was the original problem. Got the springs from comp, preload still low. Thats what the .050 is, how much they had to shim it to be at .120, or whatever it is now. Even with the preload where it should be, it still has some MINOR valvetrain noise.

Now wehter the noise is normal, I dont know because the car isnt tuned yet. But the idle is REAL low, and the engine shakes. They have to raise the idle during the tuning. Maybe what noise there is will go away.

Can you agree to one thing? Dennis Miles told JD's that these cams have a REALLY AGGRESSIVE RAMP SPEED. Thats what's causing what noise there is. It seems like your defending Dennis and Comp because they have done wonderfull things for you, and I can admire that. But, since you dont know whats going on here, it's not fair for you to say that Comps holding up their end of the bargain. Have you talked to him about my situation? If not, then please feel free to ask him about the 4.6 they have been having problems with in PA.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hmm, sorry bout that, I just re-read through the posts and saw what you are referring to with the .050. Maybe it was a typo. I doubt he would have left the springs with a .050 preload knowing that .080 is the minimum necessary. Even so, after the shop got the preload higher with the shims, it still should have had no noise as you are saying. So why did it still have noise? Even after the comp springs were installed and preload set higher than before with shims?
 

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Re: Re: Technical details of 2V job

white99gt said:

Here is the problem.
You measure a preload of .050 .That right there should have told you the problem.

The factory preload is around .120".But Any thing above .080"is good(aka no noise).
Anything under that is BAD .

SO the noise is bad a valve not seated correctly and\or the seat not allowing the valve to be at the porper installed height.

This info was passed to me by comp when i got my cams.
Because they were worried about a base circle being .015" below their engineering specs.

That is the most informative set of sentences i've read on a message board in two years.

:blob
 

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dp
 

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stanggt00 said:
dp? whats that mean?
Double post-- but hold on im getting the answer for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
God I feel like Im going to have future problems, and Im going to be up shits creeks without a paddle. Just a credit card bill :(
 

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stanggt00 said:
Hmm, sorry bout that, I just re-read through the posts and saw what you are referring to with the .050. Maybe it was a typo. I doubt he would have left the springs with a .050 preload knowing that .080 is the minimum necessary. Even so, after the shop got the preload higher with the shims, it still should have had no noise as you are saying. So why did it still have noise? Even after the comp springs were installed and preload set higher than before with shims?
Stanggt00- something is not correct in the valve area.
If the machine shop is trying to work with you thats great.

But i know of noone having cam noise with these cams.

To correct the preload it should have been done in the valve area.So in turn not requiring any shims.A valve can be adjusted be removing the tip or reseating the valve i the seat to gain or lose preload(not sure how on the seat thing ) but then again i only work on cars,i save all the seat and guide info for the machine shop.

They coould have made up the difference in the preload in the valve area ,thus not requiring shims.

Per comp: the cams were off grind .015" from the design specs to actual grinds.
So checking preload is a must .
I need to tell you
of one thing though, you will need to check lifter preload. The base circles
went a little smaller than we expected, so you may have to use a .015" or so
shim to preload the lifter.

I was talking with one of our engineers, and told me that the factory
preload on these engines are around .120". Before adding any shims to the
lifter, install a cam in the head to see what the preload changes to. If it is
above .080", I wouldn't worry about adding shims
this is from comp cams.

Hope this helps you some.

I have had my comps for 7 k miles with the power in the sig with no noise (sounds stock).
 

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stanggt00 said:
God I feel like Im going to have future problems, and Im going to be up shits creeks without a paddle. Just a credit card bill :(
Just FYI im also going to contact comp to see if i cant help you out with this issue;) .
COmp is not a sponsor nor do i work for them.Im just a satisfied customer trying to pass on the helping hand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
One last thing for ya. If the preload is good, could it be because of the ramp speed, its getting valve slap?
 

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stanggt00 said:
One last thing for ya. If the preload is good, could it be because of the ramp speed, its getting valve slap?
If the preload is good then there should be no noise.

I can bet my cams are way more agressive than the ones in yours( mine are custom grinds ).Mine are a cross between the two biggest they offer if that gives you some idea.

The only thing that can cause noise are:
1- improper preload
2- cam timing off
3- improper valve clearences
4- bad\leaking lifter( not holding pressure properly)

i personlly know over 10 guys that have installed comps(local and met at other tracks) and have zero noise.For example jim fitz.he is local and i see him lots of times.He has no noise from his.he is a old guy and cant trust his hearing:D .
 

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You guys are working with are assuming quite a bit since no measured the cam to make sure its to the correct specs. I work in a machine shop and see little mistakes in tolerances that create big problems. I don't know how they (Comp.) inspects thier parts, but it could simply be a machining error they didn't catch.
 
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