[03Steve]

Looking for something better than what I currently use.

The Comp Cams for 4V have a large hex in the middle of the camshaft. This hex can be used to put a large wrench on to hold or rotate the cam, depending on what you are doing.

Here is the process I am currently using to fasten the intake cam:

(Photo Courtesy of 5.0 Mustangs and Super Fords)

A problem with this arises when using a keyless gear while locking down the intake cam with a high amount of torque. In summary, the cam can move just a bit (from trying to fight against the torque wrench while holding the big cresent) or the crank can move a bit (from the secondary chain driving the primary gear without holding the crank or exhaust cam). On stock cams, there is a nice holding tool that couples the cams together. I have heard of some people actually using this tool to hold Comp Cams. I haven't tried that yet, and my initial thoughts have me wondering if it would work around the large hex on each of the Comp Cams. Stock Ford DOHC holding tool:

I looked around, and found this Suburu tool. Found it a bit interesting, but not applicable in this situation:

Anyway, just sharing thoughts and open to ideas. It took my friends and I several tries last night to dial in the intake cams. We were just a few degrees off time after time, due to very slight movements. Happens on every engine it seems while following the current process. Would like to find a tool or an improved method to hold the aftermarket Comp Cams when locking them down.

Thanks...

(Cliff's 2003 Cobra Engine for 4.0L Whipple - Comp Stage 2 Cams, Comp Valve Springs, Moroso 18" Degree Wheel, Cal Spec Pointer, Comp Cams Degree Wheel Lock)

 

[eschaider]

Steve,

Some of the pics did not make it for some reason. Try editing the pics and reposting them.


Ed

 

[03Steve]

Hey Ed, I just saved and reviewed. Everything is present in the browser on my end. Still goofed?

 

[torchred04]

Steve if it helps any we have used the Ford cam holding tool to hold my brothers Comp Cams from moving when locking them down and degreeing them. Its a bit more of a pain in the ass then with the stock cams, but its worked for us.

 

[03Steve]

Sweet. I'll give it a shot next time. I imagine the tool will have to sneak in between the hex and cam lobe.

 

[4vMn12]

is there anything in the back of the cam? i.e. a square or hex recess to insert a tool? I've never seen comp's. I remember one set I had there was a half moon shape (SHM or PI cams' on a 2v can't remember). I made a plate which rested on a flat surface of the head near the back of the cam. drilled a large hole for a large fastener. I machine the bolt to fit in the back of the cam, and used a jam nut on the (still threaded) portion of the fastener hear the plate. With the bolt-head I could rotate/position the cam wherever I wanted, with the jam-nut tightend to the plate the cam would stay in position.

 

[BLK_03]

You are absolutely right. The Ford holding tool would have to rest between the hex and journal of the cam. If not, buck up and start grinding to lock that gear in place.

 

[fasteddy03]

I actually have an easy idea to fabricate a tool. Hope this helps.

 

[eschaider]

Hey Ed, I just saved and reviewed. Everything is present in the browser on my end. Still goofed?

Everything is up now Steve except the image of the Ford tool and the Suburu tool.

Try linking to their pic url.

Ed

 

[Michael-L&M]

Comp doesn't make the cores.
You will find the hex size tolerance is quite large.
The 2 major cam core suppliers are Engine Power (the cams in Steve's picture) and Camshaft Machine.
Most all the grinders buy cores from these guys and both suppliers have a slightly different design on their cores.
There are some other core suppliers, Cammotion (mostly pushrod roller cores), Andrews Products (high end pushrod roller cores) and a few others.
There is a small supplier in Calif. that made a short run of 2011 5.0 cores, a set I designed lobes for is on Evolution's Boss 5.0 on this site.

A lot of flat tappet cores are coming from Turkey, and most all Heavy Duty cores are out of China as well as some passenger OE stuff.

All the large core manufacturers are gone or in China.
I forget the name of the large supplier, run by a Polish guy, that moved the operation to China; a section of the book "The World is Flat" is devoted to him.

 

[03Steve]

is there anything in the back of the cam? i.e. a square or hex recess to insert a tool? I've never seen comp's. I remember one set I had there was a half moon shape (SHM or PI cams' on a 2v can't remember). I made a plate which rested on a flat surface of the head near the back of the cam. drilled a large hole for a large fastener. I machine the bolt to fit in the back of the cam, and used a jam nut on the (still threaded) portion of the fastener hear the plate. With the bolt-head I could rotate/position the cam wherever I wanted, with the jam-nut tightend to the plate the cam would stay in position.

Not on any of the Comp Cams sets I have seen up to this point. The stockers have that, and a dedicated "locator" tool. The SHM 4V cams (at least the early ones) were stock regrinds. Although it won't work in my case, I appreciate the reply. Thanks bud.

You are absolutely right. The Ford holding tool would have to rest between the hex and journal of the cam. If not, buck up and start grinding to lock that gear in place.

There is no way I will ever have the ability to create something like that. I have the fine motor skills of a rhinoceros, lol That was definitely artwork on your part - along with the shims and keystock I carry around in my mooth. Cliff was pretty darn good with those keepers though. Kept telling him that you can do both in 15-30 seconds. Think it motivated him, lol He is bleeding down lash adjusters tonight. I have a new idea for checking preload tomorrow that should be very accurate and fast. PTV came in at .164 @ 3 degrees ATDC, intake centerline of 105.25. He says the flycuts are fairly large, and the dial agrees.

I actually have an easy idea to fabricate a tool. Hope this helps.

Missouri State slogan!

Everything is up now Steve except the image of the Ford tool and the Suburu tool.

Try linking to their pic url.

Ed

I'll use a different image location or host on my photobucket. Thanks Ed.

Comp doesn't make the cores.
You will find the hex size tolerance is quite large.
The 2 major cam core suppliers are Engine Power (the cams in Steve's picture) and Camshaft Machine.
Most all the grinders buy cores from these guys and both suppliers have a slightly different design on their cores.
There are some other core suppliers, Cammotion (mostly pushrod roller cores), Andrews Products (high end pushrod roller cores) and a few others.
There is a small supplier in Calif. that made a short run of 2011 5.0 cores, a set I designed lobes for is on Evolution's Boss 5.0 on this site.

A lot of flat tappet cores are coming from Turkey, and most all Heavy Duty cores are out of China as well as some passenger OE stuff.

All the large core manufacturers are gone or in China.
I forget the name of the large supplier, run by a Polish guy, that moved the operation to China; a section of the book "The World is Flat" is devoted to him.

Funny you mention the tolerance, I measured the hex on two cams tonight. 1.496 on one hex, 1.502 on another. I'm sure it could swing more or less. Interesting info on the cores. I know Comp seems to run out for 4V stuff from time to time. Took about 3 months for my 106360s to get here. 4 months for my friend's. Their QA has been awesome in my experience so far. Most base circle runout on any lobe I have seen to date is .0004. Most have been .0001 or nothing at all. Good stuff.

 

[Michael-L&M]

The best runout I have seen is 10 millionths; Comp & OEM; no comment on the worst.

The core suppliers are in rough financial shape and the Modular cores are small potatoes, 5,000 cores are worth making, not 500-1000 Modulars, so the core suppliers wait until the order pool adds up, then they make them.

I have made some indicator fixtures with collets for the indicator that bolt to the caps.
I'll post it when I find the photos.

 

[03Steve]

TTT

We used the OTC cam holding tool for 4V on this a couple of weeks ago. After a night of struggling with keyless gears on intake cams, 160 ft/lbs of torque wrench, and an 18" crescent...we had enough.

I'll let Cliff comment on the details for what we did to make the OTC tool work with the Comp cams. But it works flawlessly and saves a ton of time.

 

[03Steve]

 

[eschaider]

Thanks for the pioneering work there Steve. My eyeball told me the tool might fit between the lobe and the hex but hadn't checked to be certain. If it didn't, I was going to skinny up my hex so I could fit it in. This is very cool, I like it much better than the big wrench or machining down my hexes to round OEM sized journals, which I had considered and would have done if I had to.

Ed

 

[torchred04]

We still placed a wrench on the hex as we went to 160ft-lbs just incase it slipped as well. I know what you mean about it being a PITA to hold with just a big wrench Steve, we were none to successful trying to hold it with just a wrench.

 

[fasteddy03]

That isn't an unaltered cam holding fixture. Custom. I'll bring the timesert kit over when I come borrow that Steve.......:bigwink:

 

[03blksnk]

I took an otc tool and had it milled down to fit. It took us 15 minutes, with a smoke break, to degree both intake cams.

 

[redstanger]

Instead of buying a $90 tool or $160 for the entire kit I spent a total of $10 along with 5minutes of my time. So far when i tested it, it seem to to the job. When i get my arp washers in I will degree the cams with it.

2 exhaust clamps( i used a 1 1/8 clamp and 1 1/4 clamp)
-----I didnt like the 1 1/8 clamp because the half moon was .75'' while there is only a gap of .70 between the cam lobe and hex nut. So if someone was to use two 1 1/4 clamps it would work.

1 piece of 3/4 angle iron(reason to get as rigid of piece)



call me ******* but it looked to easy to replicate..

 

[fasteddy03]

I like it. Was right what I had in mind back when this thread started. Just didn't think it would hold as well due to less surface contact so I was contemplating 2 fixtures when final torque was applied