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Discussion Starter #1
As discussed in the earlier thread - Teksid Build
I picked up a Coyote crank, oil pump, rear cover, reluctor pick up. The reluctor wheel didn't show so I had to get one coming for tomorrow.

Not sure where to start so here's pics and some early observations.
1crank.jpg
First I installed the crank in a known good Romeo block I have.

2new pump romeo.jpg
Here is the Coyote pump. Everything bolts up including the guide.

3stock pump teksid.jpg
I have a Teksid build in the garage so here's the "stock" mod pump with the guide installed.
This showed me that the bosses are different heights.

4 new pump dimensions.jpg
Here I layed out the boss heights. You can see I did the same on the stock pump. But they where all .880.
This means that it would require either the pump or the guide would need to be machined.

5 new pump gear on mod crank.jpg
Here you see the Coyote pump installed on the Teksid with a Modular crank. I installed a TFS gear to show the interference problem.

6 new pump chain on new crank.jpg
But the same gear on the Coyote crank with the Coyote pump fits nice.

7 side pump compare.jpg
Now on to the pump compare.
Here you see the pressure relief assembly is sealed with a press in plug on the new one making disassembly very difficult.

8 internal pump compare.jpg
Here you see the internals. The new pump is a little smoother and should flow better inside.
Another thing is the output hole isn't cross drilled and plugged on the Coyote pump. They just use the cover to cover the passage.
Here's a question. Does all the modular pumps have the O ring for the output? This is a pump a friend got for his Teksid build.

9 pump gears compare.jpg
Here are the gears. The modular ones on the right are steel aftermarket ones.
The dimensions on the modular is .510" thick and 3.268" OD. And Coyote are .558" thick and 3.502" OD.
Another question. Does anyone have a 3V pump to compare these dimensions? If it isn't bigger then what's the point.

That's it for tonight. Tomorrow I will move to the rear cover.

Discuss away!
 

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Machining the crank snout down and fitting a spacer to the flywheel mounting face means the crank is a direct dropin as well from what I understand... meaning that a factory rod with a 1.180" CD 3.6xx" pistons and thicker dry sleeves to go with it (Darton Coyote flanged tops are the go for strength) gives you a 5.0L Teksid to go.

Daniel
 

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Nice James! Looks like you're going in the right direction!
 

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Thanks James!
So if the coyote pump bolts up to the Teksid block, are the gears in the correct alignment with rest of the cam gears? Is the conclusion that the coyote pump will work on the coyote crank in the Teksid block if we machine the boss for the guide? Is it that simple or am I missing something?

Then the only issue would be the relief plug and installing stronger gears in the coyote pump.
 

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Factory pump with a set of billet pump gears from MPR racing in FL would be ideal. FRPP do stake the cup plug on there Cobra Jet pumps, but ive fitted plenty without staking them and never had an issue.

Daniel
 

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As far as the o-ringed outlet, it is not stock. MMR does this to their pumps. One pump I saw had a section of the inner lip broken away. I was not happy about that.
 

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As far as the o-ringed outlet, it is not stock. MMR does this to their pumps. One pump I saw had a section of the inner lip broken away. I was not happy about that.
I just use some aviation sealer on this area and all tensioners , I believe from my experience when I have disassemble the same motor there showed to be no bypass of any kind.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks James!
So if the coyote pump bolts up to the Teksid block, are the gears in the correct alignment with rest of the cam gears? Is the conclusion that the coyote pump will work on the coyote crank in the Teksid block if we machine the boss for the guide? Is it that simple or am I missing something?

Then the only issue would be the relief plug and installing stronger gears in the coyote pump.
In short no. The crank gears are too far forward.
I have had two MMR stroker short blocks here. All they do is use this crank with a spacer in the back and the crank gear machined out .160. Also they cut the snout shorter. This is with a stock modular oil pump. The same one pictured above.
If you cut the crank gear it would hit the Coyote pump.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
10 reluctor.jpg

So the rear cover bolts right up. The seal looks to be a little better but the cover is twice the price.
I checked and the reluctors are the same number of teeth and the gap line up the same. So the computer should have no problem.

11 sensor.jpg

Here's the problem. The sensor goes right over the freeze plug. So no modifying the block to fit it.
But Im sure I could drill out the hole and use a Cobra pickup sensor. It would clear the freeze plug boss.

I have a couple ideas. First I could try to machine the pump housing to clear the primary gear in the front. This would make the pump a bolt on.
Second I could make the rear reluctor work. Then space the rest of the timing gear in the front out .170". This should clear everything up front but is a lot of work to fit a larger oil pump.

Keep the thoughts coming.
 

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Great work. Look forward to seeing the progress on this. Two questions-
1. Could our stock rear covers work?
2. Will our factory reluctor ring work in the front?
 

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View attachment 141193

So the rear cover bolts right up. The seal looks to be a little better but the cover is twice the price.
I checked and the reluctors are the same number of teeth and the gap line up the same. So the computer should have no problem.

View attachment 141201

Here's the problem. The sensor goes right over the freeze plug. So no modifying the block to fit it.
But Im sure I could drill out the hole and use a Cobra pickup sensor. It would clear the freeze plug boss.

I have a couple ideas. First I could try to machine the pump housing to clear the primary gear in the front. This would make the pump a bolt on.
Second I could make the rear reluctor work. Then space the rest of the timing gear in the front out .170". This should clear everything up front but is a lot of work to fit a larger oil pump.

Keep the thoughts coming.
In short no. The crank gears are too far forward.
I have had two MMR stroker short blocks here. All they do is use this crank with a spacer in the back and the crank gear machined out .160. Also they cut the snout shorter. This is with a stock modular oil pump. The same one pictured above.
If you cut the crank gear it would hit the Coyote pump.
That is what i thought on the gears. Thanks for clarifying.

On the rear cover, is the rear 8 bolt flange of the coyote a larger diameter than the Mod crank, is that reason for the cover you mention? I probably missed something again...

It almost sounds to me like machining the snout to match and using the 3V pump is still the way to go. Is the Coyote pump worth all the effort to re-align all the drive gears up front? And what would that do the stock cobra front cover? Is there enough clearance if you do that?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The back of the crank is the same except the flywheel mounting face is about .100 in. This is for the reluctor wheel. So yes you can use a standard rear cover.

I think where we end up here is just use the 3V pump and do some minor work to use this crank. I have almost all that is needed to use this crank.
Remember I already know for a fact that MMR uses it for its 4.75 stroker. I have worked with 2 of them.
I will document everything here to do it soon.

On to the pump gears.
I found this on Boundary's website.


It basically shows that the 3V gears are the same diameter as the Coyote and the same thickness as our Cobra. So the 3V gains volume from the diameter and the Coyote gains over the 3V with added thickness.
I am coming to the conclusion that the 3V is plenty for anything we need to do.

My next idea is to see if the Coyote gears can be fit into a 3V pump? I have a old 3V truck engine here that I can get a free pump from to see if this is possible.
This will take some time so be patient.
 

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I had traded emails with Boundary about making a pump gear that matches the Coyote crank, but would fit in the 3V housing. That may be a good option. Travis indicated that he needed three orders to do the CAD work to produce the gears for the same price as his other gears.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I had traded emails with Boundary about making a pump gear that matches the Coyote crank, but would fit in the 3V housing. That may be a good option. Travis indicated that he needed three orders to do the CAD work to produce the gears for the same price as his other gears.
I think this would be a great option. I can cut primary gears with the step needed.
The other thing is can we get by without cutting the end of the crank? Maybe a spacer for the snout to compress the damper?
 

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i have a coyote f150 pump in scrap iron if you are interested in measurements.

also if the timing gears are spaced out will that not affect alignment?
for the rear spacing can the teeth on a reluctor wheel be turned off and turn it into a spacer?
the timing of the 2 reluctors are identical if you need confirmation both have the missing tooth at 50* btdc

i have both a coyote and mod motor in storage but they are still in the engine, i was wondering what exactly the difference is in the snout.
 

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The spacer on the crank snout to retain the damper is a simple but good solution James. I have to go back and check the width of the oil pump drive flats on the two cranks. I want to say the Coyote crank has a larger dimension but I can't say for certain until I check.

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
i have a coyote f150 pump in scrap iron if you are interested in measurements.

also if the timing gears are spaced out will that not affect alignment?
for the rear spacing can the teeth on a reluctor wheel be turned off and turn it into a spacer?
the timing of the 2 reluctors are identical if you need confirmation both have the missing tooth at 50* btdc

i have both a coyote and mod motor in storage but they are still in the engine, i was wondering what exactly the difference is in the snout.
I want to see if the 3V pump can be machined to fit the coyote gears. I think we have the dimensions needed.
Yes you could use the reluctor for a spacer by just grinding the teeth. Or better yet just get this cover with the seal. Then its all just a bolt on. The added bonus is the wheel serves as a protector for the seal. And there is no slinger on this.
On one hand the wheel is $20 and you could make one cheap. But on the other its only $20 and takes no time.

I have more to come on the seal as it appears to be a bit better than what we have. And more on the snout dimensions also.
 

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f150 oil pump has smaller gears than the mustang pump, i was told this when i went to order gears from tss but they were sold out so i ended up buyin a complete mustang pump, if f150 small enough they might fit in 3v pump
 

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just measured the f150 pump at .512 with a crappy caliper without taking the pump apart, billet gears are made for this pump, if th od is the same as 3v ther might be a bolt and go solution
 

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I just use some aviation sealer on this area and all tensioners , I believe from my experience when I have disassemble the same motor there showed to be no bypass of any kind.
My solution was similar, in this case the latest Shelby pump with the steel backing plate (and Boundary Engineering gears, of course). A small bead of anaerobic sealer will probably do the trick:

 
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