Mustang and Ford Performance Forums banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
675 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'm gonna outline how to "time" a 2V with TFS adjustable crank gears. I hesistate to call this "degree'ing" because this is just they easy part without the actual "degree'ing" part. I'll be demonstrating this on my engine, since I'm doing the degree'ing stuff as well right now.

Abstract:

  • The normal tolerances on cams/cam gears have the intake centerlines for a certain set of 2V camshafts at: Left (driver's) Bank: 120°, Right (passenger) Bank: 114.5°. this is where the actual degree'ing work was done--to find out where they are currently at with the actual cam gears to be used
  • The TFS gears allow for a maximum of 8° of either advance or retard (in 2° increments), so the final intake centerline for the left bank can at earliest be 112°. The right bank will have to settle for 112.5° since we can't get any closer to the goal using this method.
  • First is the issue of the cam followers. If the crankshaft keyway is not pointing at 9 o'clock, and if you just bolt the cam on the heads with the followers in place, you risk damaging valves because the engine is simply not timed at this point (Google: interference engine if you don't understand the implications of this). Solution: Either remove the followers and replace them after the procedure is done, OR make sure the crank keyway is at 9 o'clock to make sure all pistons are below deck when you bolt the cam towers down.
  • I highly recommend removing the followers for this because with the followers off, there is no chance of moving any valves at all. Once it is timed, then you can rotate the crank to your heart's content and never have to worry about PTV clearance.
  • ALSO, since we're either advancing/retarding the motion of the cam with respect to a stationary crankshaft, it necessitates a slight movement of the cam gear while it's bolted to the camshaft. If you have ever tried to rotate a camshaft while still having all valvespring pressure acting on it, you know that sometimes the valvesprings do not allow for certain minute movements very easily because the valvesprings might sometimes push the lobe to far, which in turn, turns the cam for you, and you don't want this because what we're trying to accomplish is a very tiny rotation of the cam gear/camshaft. I will be doing this with cam followers REMOVED.

Step 1. If your timing chains have no dark links or dots on the links, you need to mark the links like this. I used a marker but you can use whatever you want.



Closer views.



Step2. With the Left cam gear at approx. 1:00-1:30, install a timing chain on it and match the mark/dark link on the chain with the dot/dimple on the cam gear. We need to do this first because the Left timing chain goes on before the Right.


Step 3. [If you need to and haven't done so already] Rotate the crank so that the crankshaft key is pointing to 10:30. Once you do this, the crank is to remain absolutely stationary, otherwise you will have mis-timed the engine! The crankshaft key needs to stay at 10:30!


For reference, here is how an either stock or TFS crank gear would go for "straight up" position of the camshaft.


Obviously a stock crank gear doesn't have all those keyway slots, which is what allows the TFS adjustable crank gears perform the advancing/retarding motion.

Here is my TFS gear in the "straight up" alignment.


What we want to accomplish (8° of cam advance) is depicted by the following two pictures:

We need the "A8" inner keyway slot to move to it's new position @ 10:30, and we need the "A8" outer gear tooth to move to 6:00.


To end up like this:


This is simple because it can be done "in-hand" without actually putting it on the crank (you obviously can't turn the crank gear on a stationary crank once the key is in place).

Step 4. Orient the cam gear in your hand as the previous photo shows. In other words, insert the "A8" outer gear tooth into the dark/dotted chain link---then ATTEMPT to put the gear on the crank. I say "attempt" because it might not slide over the key on the crank depending on the exact position you left the cam gear in. You'll likely end up with this IF you positioned it EXACTLY how I did:



Step 5. Turn the GEAR just a smudge.


Revelation: That teensy little clockwise rotation on the crank gear to make it slide over the crank key made the cam gear turn an even teensier weensier amount (because the crank:cam is a 1:2 gear ratio). That little action is what advances the cam 8° forward with respect to a stationary crank, and of course from now on when the motor is running. :)

I tried my best to get some still shots of the results, but this is the best I can do. You can see (approximately) how that tiny little rotation at the end ends up turning the cam gear the necessary amount, because the cam gear is still connected to the crank gear via the timing chain.



So again, if you oriented the cam gear in such a position that allows the crank gear to slide onto the crankshaft key, then you had the cam gear in a good location. Mine just happened to be a little too "counter clockwise", so I had to do that little rotation.

So that's pretty much it for the Left bank. It is now timed with 8° of cam advance. Same basic thing for the Right bank.

Marked chain link on timing dot on Right bank:


Just align the "A2" outer gear tooth into the dark/dotted chain link, and fiddle with the cam gear if you need to, in order to be able to slide the remaining TFS gear onto the crankshaft key.

Here you can see the "A2" slot over the crankshaft key.


and here you can see the "A2" outer gear tooth matching up to the marked link on my timing chain.


All this is possible due to the fact that those inner keyway slots appear to be evenly spaced out, yet they are not. They are offset tiny amounts so that using one particular keyway slot necessitates movement of the cam gear in which ever direction that one keyway slot advertises.

There you have it for this hypothetical scenario. Left bank is now at 112°, and Right bank is now at 112.5°. Now you can slip on the rest of the guides and tensioners if you haven't already done so, and rotate to you heart's content with or without the cam followers (so long as the degree'ing was done correctly which was not shown here!! :))

Is that good enough? For most people yes, but I need REAL accuracy. That's where the Hex-a-just system on the Cloyes adjustable CAM gears come into play.

This part.....


...is what is gonna allow me infinite adjustment of ±4° in addition to the ±2,±,4±6,±8 discrete steps that the TFS crank gears allow. One degree or even 0.5° of difference is too much for me. I'm shooting for less than 2/10° difference between banks for the utmost in awesomeness.

CLASS DISMISSED!!

:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
Very nice..great write up!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
669 Posts
I know your pain....it took me forever to get both banks even......started out with 104 ICL Right side and 116 ICL on the Left side......I used the Clyoles Cam gears with ARP Bolt and took me about seven tries on each bank to get it perfect....ended up with 108.5/108.5 on both sides....didn't want to try and get 108 exactly as this was very tedious.......but I quadrulpal checked everything for accuracy.....did you pin or tack weld the gears together when you were finished? BTW Degreeing the cams are so worth it......my car runs soo smooths now and feels like It pulls better accross the board and top end....may need to retune being 12 degs off...tttt

"ED"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
675 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I know your pain....it took me forever to get both banks even......started out with 104 ICL Right side and 116 ICL on the Left side......I used the Clyoles Cam gears with ARP Bolt and took me about seven tries on each bank to get it perfect....ended up with 108.5/108.5 on both sides....didn't want to try and get 108 exactly as this was very tedious.......but I quadrulpal checked everything for accuracy.....did you pin or tack weld the gears together when you were finished? BTW Degreeing the cams are so worth it......my car runs soo smooths now and feels like It pulls better accross the board and top end....may need to retune being 12 degs off...tttt

"ED"
nothing was done to the "finalize" this TFS crank gear install because all that was a hypothetical scenario. I was actually taking those pics to help out a friend whose cams were at 120/114.5. At the moment I have no idea what my actual cams are at, but I will find out soon. Once I see what's what, then I will TIG weld the gears together with a few tacks here and there, and perform the rest of the "fine adjustment" degree'ing with the Cloyes cam gears.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
675 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Just TIG welded some TFS crank gears for a friend that wanted peace of mind. Turned out fine. Really they were just four tack welds, spaced 90° apart. No need to get crazy or anything.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
Looks like that would do the trick. But I have to wonder...if an adequate amount of clamping force is applied via the crank bolt (like through an ARP bolt...or stud setup), would the gears even need tacking together?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
675 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Looks like that would do the trick. But I have to wonder...if an adequate amount of clamping force is applied via the crank bolt (like through an ARP bolt...or stud setup), would the gears even need tacking together?
I see your point, but if that was the case, why did Ford switch to a 1-piece crank gear?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
I see your point, but if that was the case, why did Ford switch to a 1-piece crank gear?
That's a good question...but I don't know the answer. Might have been cost, quality control on one item vs. two items, or maybe they didn't want to change fasteners. Who knows, lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,947 Posts
You can also cut a full length slot and run a full length woodruff key, this would negate any issue from running a two piece setup. No need to tack weld or pin the gears when doing this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
675 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You can also cut a full length slot and run a full length woodruff key, this would negate any issue from running a two piece setup. No need to tack weld or pin the gears when doing this.
I don't know about your abilities, but I know I personally would not be able to do that. lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Great sticky. I will be needing this here in a month for my new engine! I'll have to do my research on how to secure the gears onto the crank..
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top