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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Recently I had to have my EEC replaced. Because of PATS I had to get a new key as well. If I use the "old" keys that I have the car won't start and the MIL sets a PATS code instantly.

I found some information that says if you take a piece of wire and wrap 5-10 loops around the cylinder (in the sterring column) you can then run that wire (up to several feet) to a "valid" PATS key and similarly wrap 5 to 10 loops of the wire around it... (potentially "hiding" a key somewhere in the column or dash) and this will satisfy the PATS system and allow you to use "other" (non-PATS) keys to start the car / avoid the MIL.

Anyone ever tried / heard of such a thing? I'd rather get some opinion before tearing up my steering column - but it would sure be nice to go back to the $.99 key blanks if this is all it takes.......

Don
 
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kwikrnu said:
You could get a chip and have the PATS deafeted through that...
you can also take the chip out of the end of the key and tape it to the top of the ign cyl housing

also if you needed a new pcm you didn't need any new keys to install it, whoever installed it should have used the old keys, it just has to be programed to the pats module with a ford scan tool
 

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I did exactly that to bypass the PATS for my remote starter. did it with 16 gauge wire as a test and it worked then I tried 20 gauge and it didnt work so I went back to the 16 gauge. The more wraps the better I put as many as I could fit around the ignition switch under the shroud. I now use regular keys and have never had a problem in 2 years. Oh by the way its for a truck but the theory is the same.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
patrick said:
if you needed a new pcm you didn't need any new keys to install it, whoever installed it should have used the old keys, it just has to be programed to the pats module with a ford scan tool
Well, that's what I thought as well, and when I made this same point the technician assured me this wasn't the case. I cannot believe that Ford cuts new keys for every EEC they replace. What if I had five extras? As it stands I now only have one key that will start the car.
So much for service..... :hammer
 
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I know it sucks...I work at a dealer so I cant do too much bashing but most techs at dealers dont really know how the system works. When it first came out some stuff did have to be done differently because of software, sometimes you had to have at least 2 keys to change a pcm or pats/hec module but they have pretty much fixed those glitches. Most of the techs dont work with the stuff enough and dont keep up with all of the changes. I think it took ford a little while to really figure out exactly how it all worked.
 

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I've fried a PCM in the past and had to have my system reprogrammed. Dealerships are almost clueless. It went to two dealerships until one could figure out how to fix PATS.

Now I changed my control module in the fenderwell, and apparently that had PATS info stored in it from what I gathered talking to a a friend at the Lincoln dealership. I'm just going to disable PATS via a custom chip and call it a day.

I'm not a fan of the system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Flo Bee said:
I've fried a PCM in the past and had to have my system reprogrammed. Dealerships are almost clueless. It went to two dealerships until one could figure out how to fix PATS.

Now I changed my control module in the fenderwell, and apparently that had PATS info stored in it from what I gathered talking to a a friend at the Lincoln dealership. I'm just going to disable PATS via a custom chip and call it a day.

I'm not a fan of the system.
IIRC - for the modules there is a "key sequence" you can do to "synch" it. While I cannot be sure of what current systems allow, this was the case on my 1997 T-Bird - but I'm not sure of the level that PATS was at at that point.

As far as not liking PATS, I have to say that the fact that my car would not start without the correct key present is a good thing IMHO. Yeah, it sucks that no dealerships can seem to get it right initially, but I am still glad to know that my car is at least a little safer from being competely jacked. Thank God for various forum members that at least know a little about this stuff....

Don
 

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Pats = Fun

Are we sitting down?

Did you know that there are 72 million BILLION different radio signals that the transponder in your PATS key can produce???

Pats is funny, basically when you turn your key on, the key spits out a radio signal which is recieved by a little ring around your lock cylinder called a tranceiver. The tranceiver sends this signal to the PATS module which is integral to the instrument cluster. After that, the PCM (or your EEC as you might call it) compares that signal with the signal it has programmed into it's memory. If the signals match, then your car will start.

Dealerships don't cut new keys after PCM replacement - but they do use a $12,000 diagnostic tool to clear up the confusion between the modules whenever a new PCM is replaced. There's no real easy way around it, just get your car to a dealership and tell them that you need to have the parameters reset for your PATS system because a new PCM was installed. If they have any techs there who even halfway know what they're doing, they should have the problem fixed in about 20 minutes. (Believe it or not, it takes 10 minutes for the computer to break into security for the PATS system.)

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Damage INC said:
Dealerships don't cut new keys after PCM replacement
Well, frankly I'm a bit confused as to why I was given a new key instead of programming my old ones - but I'm taking that up with the shop that did the work.

One last question:
So - when you get a "set" of keys are they "chipped" the same? Or is each key unique and the PATS system has the ability to be programmed for multiple keys?

Don
 

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johnny-longtorso said:
Well, frankly I'm a bit confused as to why I was given a new key instead of programming my old ones - but I'm taking that up with the shop that did the work.

One last question:
So - when you get a "set" of keys are they "chipped" the same? Or is each key unique and the PATS system has the ability to be programmed for multiple keys?

Don
You got it, each key has it's own signal that the that the computer stores in it's memory. So actually you are programming the PCM to the key.

Dave
 
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Damage INC said:
You got it, each key has it's own signal that the that the computer stores in it's memory. So actually you are programming the PCM to the key.

Dave
thats close...but actually the pats module stores the key codes, and then tells the pcm if its ok to start. when you replace the pcm or pats/hec module them the pcm/pats id has to be restored...basically they have to recognize each other and you need to have a scan tool to do that.
 

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Yup

Thanks for clarifying that Patrick. :) It's what Ford calls "resetting the parameters." ooooooh... aaaahh...

It really is a goofy system when you think about it, but it's not the most confusing thing you'll deal with. But it does work. And I guess that's better than leaving the store and finding your car isn't where you parked it.

At least it's not like the Benz keys - those puppies are over $400 a pop. It's really not even a key, it's a wand that sends an infrared signal to a lens inside the ignition "cylinder" and flashes a code. The lens picks up the code and verifies it with its security module and then the car starts. But here's the great part - it's a rolling code. The module requires a different code for the key to flash EVERY TIME you start the car. So the key gets programmed to the modules set list of codes.
And it gets better - see, each key is only good for 200,000 codes. So in other words, a key will start a vehicle 200,000 times and then it's done. Can't use it anymore. You have to have a new $400 key shipped from GERMANY. They assume that 200,000 starts will last about 10 years, so it's not THAT horrible I guess.

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Last bit of follow up

For anyone that stumbles on this thread.....

If you take a look in your manual (page 69(?) in the 2001 manual) you'll find instructions for coding a new key to the PATS system. The EEC can recognize up to eight keys. It's a typical key in, switch on, key out, key in, etc, etc

The big caveat (and what kills me doing this) is that in order to code an additional key you need to have TWO currently coded (working) keys in your posession. If you do not you need to take it to someone that has an NGS to get them coded. I can only imagine what my local dealer will want for that (given that they wanted to charge me $97 just to read my OBD codes).

I am still at at loss as to why one of my keys was "lost" from the EEC coding - the mechanic insists that it was coded for both....

Don
 

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Recently I had to have my EEC replaced. Because of PATS I had to get a new key as well. If I use the "old" keys that I have the car won't start and the MIL sets a PATS code instantly.

I found some information that says if you take a piece of wire and wrap 5-10 loops around the cylinder (in the sterring column) you can then run that wire (up to several feet) to a "valid" PATS key and similarly wrap 5 to 10 loops of the wire around it... (potentially "hiding" a key somewhere in the column or dash) and this will satisfy the PATS system and allow you to use "other" (non-PATS) keys to start the car / avoid the MIL.

Anyone ever tried / heard of such a thing? I'd rather get some opinion before tearing up my steering column - but it would sure be nice to go back to the $.99 key blanks if this is all it takes.......

Don
What I had to do was get a ecm,or computer, out of an early 1995 mustNg that did not use a chipped ,ey for my 1997 mustang and it works fine.the tachometer don't work is all
 

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Ateve, while I recognize you desire to be supportive and participatory, the thread you are responding to is over seventeen years old. To prevent cluttering up the site with responses to long ago resolved issues, please take a few moments to check the posting date. In the case of Johnnylongtorso the fix was obtained around March 2004 which would make it a little more than 17 years ago. I am not trying to discourage your participation but rather attempting to focus it on current events that can benefit from any insights you are willing to share.


Ed
 
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