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From 2V to 4V build thread

1114 Views 58 Replies 3 Participants Last post by  KEVINS
I have a lot of individual threads started while researching 4V parts but now that I'm starting to accumulate parts and modify things I will simply post my build and any questions I have in this thread. Hopefully anyone that can help will chime in...

FYI, swapping to a Mach 1 intake is costing me a LOT of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ but it will be worth it in the end:

New throttle body
New Fuel Rails
New Alternator...aarrgg..

Need help with this. My current 180amp alternator is too long so I need to know what high amp unit fits this Mach 1 intake? I see high amp units at Summit but not sure if they will actually fit or if there is a cheaper place to get one. Rock Auto doesn't have any high amp units.

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ks
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Yea, this is the info I found last night from Powermasters website but I didn't see a max RPM rating. I read that a one-wire alternator requires more idle RPM in order to energize it to start charging and the idle is programmed to be 950RPM. I was assuming that Ford used the "3:1" ratio (still using stock pulleys on my car) but I could measure it tonight...


Q: Will aftermarket underdrive pulleys (power pulleys) affect the output of the alternator?

A: YES, especially when using a one-wire alternator. Changing the pulley ratio of the alternator by slowing it down will generally keep the one wire regulator from cutting on. This may also produce a low voltage problem at engine idle speed, depending on the amount of reduction. Powermaster alternators are tested with a 3:1 pulley ratio in mind. This is the recommended street pulley ratio, and the ratio used in most OE applications

Q: I noticed the Proof of Performance tag rates the output at 2400 RPMs. Is this engine RPMs?

A: No, this is alternator rotor speed. To determine the engine RPM's, calculate the pulley ratio. The typical street pulley ratio is 3:1. Therfore, 2400 alternator RPM’s is 800 engine RPM's (2400/3=800).


ks
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With a 1-wire alternator, how would one wire in the charging light on the dash?
mercenvy, I've forgotten a name. Tell me one more time, and I will not forget again.

To my knowledge, there is no way to wire in the charging light. I have a Cobra replica, so it is 60's tech (more or less) wrapped in a fiberglass shell. Originally my replica had an amperage gauge that I removed for fire and safety reasons, replacing it with a voltage gauge. The voltage gauge swings up to a little over 14 volts when the engine is running, and the alternator is charging. I don't think a charging light will operate in a meaningful fashion with a 1-wire alternator. That said, a voltage gauge would be a considerably more informative instrument to have.
When I was referring to the charging light I was referencing the same light you were identifying as the idiot light. I do not believe there is a way to use this light with a one-wire alternator.
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Finally starting to get tools and materials in so I can start fabricating.
First order on the agenda was the SST crossover tube for the front of the fuel rails.

I'm not much of a fan of braided hoses mainly b/c the ID to OD ratio is awful and it takes up so much space.
I do like the look of SST b/c it never gets dirty and won't wear/get cut. It does take some getting used to when bending and you bend things slowly but I like the look in the end when everything is powder coated.

I wanted some length/volume in the crossover to help equalize the pressure and minimize pulsing between the two rails.
The rear of the rails will each have its own feed coming from a Y-block located in the fender.

ks

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You definitely like the large apothecary-sized tubing, Kevin. :) As long as you will be using a stainless tube, you might want to give some consideration to a brace on the center of the uppermost portion of the tubing and anchor it on the front bolt hole for the bracket right behind the tube in the pic below.
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The weight of the fuel plus the natural pulsations of the fuel system, and the vibration of the running engine can cause the line to flex/vibrate ever so slightly. The net effect will be to work harden the tube where it enters the fittings at the end of the fuel rails. A short time later, the work-hardened portion of the tube will crack and break off, flooding the top of the engine with fuel. The brace would prevent the tubing from vibrating.
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I used PTFE lines which have a much more favorable OD to ID ratio.
I used PTFE lines which have a much more favorable OD to ID ratio.
I was referring to what I am getting in return for using such large OD flex tubing. The large OD of flex tubing takes up a lot of space for what I get in return.

I may redo this line later on (too squarish looking) but I need to get more parts assembled/fabbed on the front of the motor first.

ks
You definitely like the large apothecary-sized tubing, Kevin. :) As long as you will be using a stainless tube, you might want to give some consideration to a brace on the center of the uppermost portion of the tubing and anchor it on the front bolt hole for the bracket right behind the tube in the pic below. View attachment 176593

The weight of the fuel plus the natural pulsations of the fuel system, and the vibration of the running engine can cause the line to flex/vibrate ever so slightly. The net effect will be to work harden the tube where it enters the fittings at the end of the fuel rails. A short time later, the work-hardened portion of the tube will crack and break off, flooding the top of the engine with fuel. The brace would prevent the tubing from vibrating.
I was actually thinking of using the two bolts for the alternator mount so the supports would look more even from side-to-side and support the corner bends better. The alternator bracket will probably be a different design which I then hope to use an attachment of sorts for the fuel line support.

ks
Good thinking! You just want to make fuel line breakage as improbable as possible. The method is less important than preventing the improbable break.
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Got a present today from Mike @ Turbos Direct!
These little fillies (61mm) will flow enough to support 1400FWHP / 1100RWHP.
These have custom TDR compressor housings, custom TDR exhaust housings and TDR compressor wheels.

V-band on everything this time.

The only thing I couldn't afford was BB housings which would have doubled the cost..

I gave Mike a BOOK on what was on my car, pressures in all the pipes, pipe diameters, pipe lengths, dyno numbers, etc. I wanted to work with someone that would listen to me and understand my design requirements and it took me a bit to get through by questioning him but he listened to me and understood what I wanted and in the end I'm confident that I got what I wanted.

These are TDR's own custom TDR 6162's. And as you can see I had TDR make them purdy for me too.

Time to start making some brackets but I still don't have the new headers.. those are still about 3 weeks out.

ks

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COMPARISON AGAINST MY 60MM'S:
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From what I can see of the cold side impellers, Kevin, I like the new design much more than the older design. Did they provide you with any compressor maps?
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From what I can see of the cold side impellers, Kevin, I like the new design much more than the older design. Did they provide you with any compressor maps?
They did not. I asked for them but Mike said that he didn't have any for these units. Based on their engineering and design department I know they do so my guess is that he didn't want to divulge them. All he told me was these were based on the Garret GT35 which I'm sure performs nothing like these.

ks
Are you using AN fittings with tube nuts? Or is it all flare fittings (for the fuel x over)?
Are you using AN fittings with tube nuts? Or is it all flare fittings (for the fuel x over)?
On my previous 2V setup I was able to flare the tubing and used AN fittings with tube nuts. This time around I am using compression fittings. I prefer to use flare but my new flaring tool won't grip the tubing hard enough to keep it from pushing it out of the clamp.

ks
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With a Grad Party on Sat and Mothers Day today I only got a few hours in to work on things but they they didn't take long.

I was hoping that since the 2V and 4V timing covers looked like they had the same mounting bosses in the same locations I was hoping to use my existing turbo mounting brackets. But the turbos had the holes in different locations and the t-cover mounting holes were about .06' off compared to the 2V so all new brackets were required but it was easy.
The existing turbo drain lines I had made for the previous turbos are made from 1"OD x.045 wall steel tubing and I simply used the steel drains to hold the turbos in the same position then built the brackets to fit the new mounting hole positions..easy peasy. TIG welding and powder coating to come later:

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I've seen pics of cars with this intake on them using a 1/2" thk spacer and I thought to myself that I was not going to waste my $$ on one of those gimmicky items. Well, once I saw that there was only 1/4"-3/8" clearance between the throttle body and the valve cover I realized I was going to need a spacer to prevent the v-cover from getting scratched up. So I now have a 1/2" spacer.

It will be welded to either the top or bottom of the intake and I will let my buddy who does the TIG welding for me choose what will be easiest. The spacer will be bolted down tight as an assembly to help keep it flat and to have a heat sink drawing heat away from the weld area.

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Kevin, did you buy or water jet the spacer?

Just as Tick Performance sandwiched their intercooler between the top and bottom of a Holley intake manifold, you could do the same thing with the OEM Ford intake, hood clearance permitting.
Kevin, did you buy or water jet the spacer?

Just as Tick Performance sandwiched their intercooler between the top and bottom of a Holley intake manifold, you could do the same thing with the OEM Ford intake, hood clearance permitting.
I purchased the spacer. I looked into the Tick idea before getting this spacer so did some measuring and there is only about 1.5" of maximum clearance before the spacer. With this spacer I now have about 1", probably less in one area near the IAC valve.

I seriously thought hard about the performance improvement their IC had when used without water flowing due to the distribution of air being even but I'm not sure that this manifold has distribution issues due to how the runners are fed from the bottom reservoir.

If I was using a cowl hood I probably could get away with that setup.

For those that like DIY fabbing, the hood I am using is a custom piece that I molded myself. I molded the top of the hood and molded the bottom side of the hood then glued them together. Link. Big props to my mother who helped me that day in laying the fiberglass.

ks
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