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· un1230/Whipple3.4/ Teksid
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
As it says a few of us on here are buying this for our motors, new builds and exsisting ones. Here's a breif descpition of what it is and the benefits of it, its electronic box that hooks in to each individual coil input wire and via a bosh knock sensor you purchase to hook to box it will detect on individual cylinders that first and slightest sound of detonation and before that pistion make another compression stroke it will retard timing to that cylinder only enough to keep it safe. Unlike the OEM systems some cars have, that in the past which have knock sensors and will retard timing to all cylinders instead of the one that was causing the issue.

So as you can see how this device is a much needed tool for safety of our motor investments against piston failure, now its not intended to be used as a tool to set timing at maximum MBT, but as a safeguard to protect your motor against spikes of any sort that could affect detonation in cylinders, just like our rev limiters. I believe we will get a 15% discount which comes to about $90 off the $595 MSRP and that will be everything needed including knock sensor, now there is remote gauge that you can purchase that has 8 led's on it that shows each cylinder and when it flickers the led of any cylinder to show you that its detecting knock and retarding. Some say you can use this gauge to tune in your timing on street, but I don't recommend using it without the dyno for tuning and making sure your where you need to be.

We going to run this till this time next week and then we will go to John with the number of boxes we need and see what the final amount will be as far as money per unit. Another bit of info we will need if you are interested, is whether your a stock motor or a built motor and what internals your running as far as pistons and what type of 2-steps your utilizing if any. Heres the link to his site>>>>>

J&S Vampire

SafeGuard retards timing if knock is detected, protecting your engine from destructive detonation.
The control system retards only the knocking cylinders, maximizing power while protecting the engine.

The system also features boost retard and nitrous or switched retard.

The boost retard section includes Start and Rate controls, allowing you to tailor the retard curve to your needs.

Switched retard could be enabled by a nitrous switch or a manual toggle switch, in case you fill up with low octane fuel.
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Please feel free to ask any questions or add opinions and me or others will answer if possible.

AJ
Mofasta
 

· 4.6 ways to waste money
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What is the difference? Is one more sensitive than the other? Plans are built motor, but we all know how plans change.
 

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Guys, I have been using a safeguard from John for over six months. One thing I recommend is the knock finder option. It is 8 leds, integrated into the unit, that indicate knock retard per cylinder. It's like $75-100 more but you have to get this option when you order the unit. It can't be added on later like the gauge.

If yall have any installation questions or would like to see install pictures, just let me know.
 

· un1230/Whipple3.4/ Teksid
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2,453 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
What is the difference? Is one more sensitive than the other? Plans are built motor, but we all know how plans change.
According to what pistons you may running the setting on the unit will be different and if your running a 2-step which is also hooked into coil wires, we will get a hold of him before we make the order and see if there will be any other info that he needs, he may be building them now where their all compatible with 2-steps and he may not need to adjust them for that any more. I know they have adjustments for how much retard you want to pull but not sure yet if sensitivity settings are there for knock sensor. Thats way he may need to know what internals your running.
 

· un1230/Whipple3.4/ Teksid
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2,453 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Guys, I have been using a safeguard from John for over six months. One thing I recommend is the knock finder option. It is 8 leds, integrated into the unit, that indicate knock retard per cylinder. It's like $75-100 more but you have to get this option when you order the unit. It can't be added on later like the gauge.

If yall have any installation questions or would like to see install pictures, just let me know.
But if you buy the remote gauge do you need the unit with integrated led's? And yes if you have any video's or install pics it would be very helpful for others.

Thanks
AJ
 

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But if you buy the remote gauge do you need the unit with integrated led's? And yes if you have any video's or install pics it would be very helpful for others.

Thanks
AJ
AJ,
The remote gauge just indicates retard on any cylinder, which is useful. The "knock finder" option has 8 leds on the vampire unit itself. The 8 leds correspond to individual cylinders. So if led #8 starts illuminating during a pull and all other leds do not illuminate, you are getting knock and spark retard on cylinder 8 only. Also there is an "knock" analog output that can be logged, I have hooked it up but not spent much time logging it. It is the same output that the remote gauge uses.

Time for some install pics. Keep in mind that I am a little weird and did not install the way John recommends. I was concerned that the "wire taps" may loose continuity over time, so I soldered all COP connections. Also John includes a custom stud that makes knock sensor install a breeze.

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count me in (actually need 2 but I'll probably wait for tax time - March for the 2nd one);
 

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I got word back from John today. He only keeps 2 or 3 on the shelf so lead time from receipt of payment would be 3 weeks.

I'll firm up on the pricing and post something Monday.
 

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The base Vampire comes with a single status LED. It lights when knock is detected and its brightness is proportional to the amount of knock retard.

The sensitivity can be tested by loading a tune that has very little timing in it, and turning the sensitivity of the vampire to just below the threshold of indicated knock. Then you can advance timing until the unit indicates knock. Then pull 1-2° out of your tune for safety margin unless you want to rely on the vampire to always protect you.

The vampire has a 0-1.3 volt analog output that can be logged. 0 is no knock. 1.3v is max knock.
 

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I'd be interested. Custom coated Manley pistons 3.7" bore, Boss block. No 2 step as of now, but I have an N2MB unit that I may install. I'm not sure if it would be a different unit for my car, my 98 uses a waste spark setup. I did convert it to COP, but it's still waste spark unlike the true COP cars.
 

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I want one for sure.

I have a couple of questions.

Do we keep the Knock Sensor mounted in the stock position in the valley? I've never looked at my Aluminum GT block to see if it even has the knock sensor mounting spot.

I have a concern about engine noise, this may require an answer directly from John and I hope nobody takes this question wrong as being critical. I am thrilled to have a knock sensor available that works and I'm just curious.

It is my understanding that Ford engineers were unable to overcome the issue of separating engine noise from detonation, at least on the Lightning, so there is no knock retard in any of the SC 5.4 PCM's. How then is J&S successful in doing so? Is it just 'smarter' technology.

I am especially concerned about this with my existing engine as it has a set of "X" brand experimental pistons in it that failed to accomplish their objective of a "silent design". My truck sounds like a '90's Cummins when cold and a newer one when warmed up, this just might be too much to overcome However, this won't deter me from buying one as I have a new engine just waiting to have the cams timed and then it will be going in, this one is a GT block with tried and true CP's in it.

I also had a bad experience with an MSD Knock Retard that I bought for my Typhoon last century. It worked but when it heard detonation, it retarded the timing a whole bunch and then took some seconds to restore, any time this happened, I just aborted that run because it was a waste. I finally took it off. It sounds like J&S has conquered that issue with the individual cylinder retard and retarding in small increments until detonation ceases, aaah modern technology!
 
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