There is no way to tell without actually filling the pan before you put it on the engine.
If the pan has a windage tray the oil should come up to but not touch the tray. Measure how many quarts it takes to get to this point. After the pan is emptied and put on the engine put that much oil back in the pan. Put the dipstick in look at where the oil level comes to on the stick and mark that as full.
If the pan does not have a windage tray you should make or buy one. If you don't want to make or buy a windage tray, you should get a new pan.
-- Tried to eliminate a windage tray altogether by installing Livernois drainbacks so the oil would return just like a Ford Gt block- hopefully that eliminates any oil roping. I do have a 3 valve composite windage tray that I could use just to mock everything up to get my full mark. As always you are the man for getting a job done right---- Thanks Ed
Hey Ed- so on further investigation of this pan it turns out to be a modified ford f 150 truck pan F55E-6694-AA that has had a deep sump welded into it. Someone ran a turbo with this unit because it has a bung for an oil return at the top under the damper and two other plugs near the bottom on the left and right sides of the sump. The job is done so well that I really thought from first glance that this was an aftermarket pan. Anyway I will take your advice and install the 3 valve composite tray (4R3Z 6687 BA) in my 4v and just cut the tray around the drain backs so they slide thru. Above you mentioned to fill the pan up but not to touch the tray. Is it ok to leave it an 1/8 to 1/4 inch below the tray or do you have some other measurement in mind? This is on an aluminum teskid big bore stroked with a 3.75 forged crank so I will have to spin the engine by hand to see if that composite tray clears everything. If not I will be getting another aftermarket tray. Thanks again Ed
A 1/4" is fine, you could even go a bit closer if you have a small sump. All you are attempting to do is determine the volume of oil needed to get to that level so you know how much to put in when everything is assembled. Remember it takes a quart to fill the filter, add another pint or so to fill the remote oil filter lines, add about 3/4 quart for wetting the engine, and a quart or so of oil for the oil in suspension and being whipped up by the rotating assembly. Assuming a six-quart sump that comes to a total of 8 1/4 quarts of oil. You could safely round down to 8 qts.
I highly recommend an oil accumulator. Canton offers the original Accusump version and Moroso has an equally attractive offering they surprisingly call an Oil Accumulator. Don't use a wimpy 1 or 2-quart one, get the 3-quart one. The 3-quart one actually holds less than 2 quarts.
The big deal with the accumulators is twofold. The obvious first benefit is if your pickup is uncovered during acceleration, braking or turning the accumulator jumps in and supplies oil instead of air to the engine's oiling system. The not-so-obvious benefit is cold starts. Our cams get oiled last in the pecking order of oil deliveries. That means, if you didn't modify your primary (not secondary but primary) chain tensioners then the #1 cam journal on the front of each head gets the oil pinched out of it when the engine is shut off.
Later when you start the engine you have a cam-to-head contact patch that will scuff progressively more and more. One day the scuffing will be enough to seize the cam in the head and you will break a timing chain or chains along with a good number of other parts. The oil accumulator will prevent this by flooding the engine oil galleys with oil when you turn the ignition key and before the engine starts.
If you have the time, build your own pan that looks something like this;
Design it to clear or clearance K-member areas where it might interfere. There is a trap doored baffle in the middle of the pan that slams shut on braking and swings open on acceleration. The swinging pickup follows the oil as it goes from front to back and when I make a hard right turn and uncover the pickup the oil accumulator steps in to save the engine.
Thanks for all the great info Ed-- I will be looking into that accusump to save the heads. I read the article here to modify the primary tensioners a few years ago and that mod slipped my mind. That pan is gorgeous--it is an awesome road rally piece. This is the first pan that I have seen where the windage tray attaches to itself instead of the engine or being wedged between the block and pan. Very sweet piece with a lot of oil control built in.
It is patterned after an old drag race pan I used about 50 years ago, Tom. The addition of the oil accumulator provides cold start protection for the engine's top end and starvation control in sweeping right-hand turns. In addition, the primary chain tensioner mods and the oil accumulator are important for protecting the frontmost cam journals in the heads.
You can find the write-up on the primary chain tensioner modification in the TToC engine section about 2/3 of the way down just before the crank tech stuff. I highly recommend the modification.
It's a shame I already started to dress the front of the engine. I put the damper on already too and it's an ATI super damper like you had suggested in a previous discussion. Mine is a 6 rib pulley since I'm N/A but I probably will spray it now and then.
Is it a smart move to remove it and go back into the cover to do this tensioner mod since I have already locktited the assembly bolts for the damper. Don't know that it will come apart without stripping the head of the star bolts. Any suggestions here would be welcome. Are the 2V tensioners the same as the 4V? I know the primary chains are the same but I'm sketchy on the tensioners and since I have a few sets of those I could set up a left and a right before I even tear everything back down ..
The 2V engines use the same chains and as far as I can tell the same tensioner. The easy way to verify is to go to an auto parts website look up both tensioners and compare part numbers.
The mod is definitely worth doing! Without the mod, the little ratcheting arms will settle in a locked condition, in the extended position keeping tension on the primary chain and pulling the camshaft down tight against the lower half of the front cam bearing. This will pinch off the oil film and you already know the rest of the story from my earlier post above.
Unless you used green Loctite® the bolts will be removable. The correct Loctite® to use in aluminum is Blue Loctite®. Better yet buy metric set screws that are long enough to bottom in the block holes (use blue Loctite®) and also accommodate a washer and nut so you are tightening and loosening steel against steel threads and not steel against aluminum.
After some investigation into the tensioners the 2v and 4v are the same along with the primary chains and the cam gears also. I have stripped the parts and damper off from the front cover. Do you know of a source for the 0.200 shims? Florida is really short when it comes to engine machine shops. I called the one in Venice and his equipment is too big to make a shim that small. Any help here would be appreciated. Thanks again Ed-------
You want to stay away from engine and all automotive machine shops when you are shopping for this type of part, Tom. Go to a commercial job shop, machine shop that does not do automotive work. That I am aware of there are no sources for those custom pieces. You either need to make them yourself or have a job shop make them for you.