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· un1230/Whipple3.4/ Teksid
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2,453 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've decided to make it easier for everyone to find information in my build thread, I will do a type of glossary that will give post numbers of interest.
Let me know any suggestions to make it easier.

Table of Contents & Links

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/m5lp_0803_frpp_mustang_block/viewall.html
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/m5lp_0809_big_bore_modular_build/viewall.html

Table of Contents Shortcuts
  • Crank Snout Mod-Post 27 & 45
  • 4.6 Block vs Boss50 Block Comparison -Post 61 and up
  • Studding Oem Cams for Arp 1/2" studs-Post 151 and up
  • Cloyes Timing Gear Part#s-Post 168
  • Arp side bolt part#s-Post 205
  • Custom Hub for BHJ Damper-Post 225
  • 3v windage tray and extra Arp hardware-Post 263
  • Oil Pan mod for windage tray-Post 264
  • Primary Tensioner Mod-Post 301
  • Correct Main bearings for Boss50 Block-Post 309 and on
  • Cometic Head Gasket #s .036- Post 332
  • Bearing Clearances and other info- Post 359 and on
As most of you know I had a #2 piston failure 3 weeks ago at a NMCA Event which has lead me to starting this thread. But before we discuss my new build, lets discuss what happen and why it may have happen. Sometimes things happen for a reason and we're better for it and sometimes they don't, its according to how you look at it. What happen to me was I was trying to counteract a weight issue and boost issue with nitrous and got caught up in my male testosterone (as Ed would say) I kept shooting bigger shots of nitrous along with doing it safely via the dyno rental sessions. But this last jet (.091) I purchased while in BG, I was trying to tune it in without the dyno and in the back of mind knew that my fuel octane was becoming in sufficient (vp100 Blaze unleaded oxygenated) but started ignoring my tunning side and just thought about more mph on the big end. So here's what I think was some the factors for what cause this>>>

Photograph Automotive tire Wheel Motor vehicle Light

Automotive tire Sports equipment Automotive lighting Audio equipment Helmet


Automotive tire Automotive exterior Motor vehicle Bumper Gas

too high of timing for shot(18.50*)

Not enough octane

and too hot of plug

But theres one more interesting factor that I discovered while examining the piston, why after dropping the piston out of the cylinder didn't the rings fall off, they were loose in the grooves,but when I looked for the end gaps there were none to be found.>>>>>
[video]http://s339.photobucket.com/albums/n446/mofasta/?action=view¤t=2011-10-29_12-47-39_276.mp4[/video]
As you seen like I did it was probably a 1 in a million chance of all 4 ring gaps lineing up at once under the severe loads that I was pushing on the motor at that given point and time. Call it the perfect storm or what you want, but it happen and by the rings doing that it gave the fire from the explosion somewhere else to escape before the exhaust valve, and in return acted like blow torch on the side of the piston as you seen. Eric(swervedriver),Ed and I have discussed this and Eric knows of this issue happening before which he may post,so if you ever have this happen or have had it happen check your ring gaps. By the way I check other pistons and they were all stagered to some degree from each other.

Now to the new build is going to be different block ( Modular 5.0L Ford Racing Cast Iron "Boss Block" Engine Block, M-6010-Boss50) >>>>>

1996-04 Mustang Modular 5.0L Ford Racing Cast Iron "Boss Block" Engine Block, M-6010-Boss50 at LRS - Same Day Shipping!

Which by the way Brian(Posi) and I have order from Steve at Tousley Ford and I purchased a fairly new 3.4 whipple Gen.2 with a 3.50 Reichard Racing Pulley from a person on modfords>>>>

Gas Camera accessory Auto part Machine Cylinder


Now I'm not going to go through every step as Tony did because you have that information at hand,but I will list the blueprint specs of my motor and special mods to it that others have not done and along with Ed and others point out why we are doing them. I will be going with some custom pistons that are just like the stock 4.6's for the big bore 5.0 plus be doing some special degreeing of the stock cams for better fill of cylinders which Ed can chime in on. Also there will be mod to the snout of the crank we'll be doing also if it checks out to have no cracks, so stay tuned for a long winter build.
 

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Do you already have your block? I ask because they have been on back order for well over a month now and the date for shipment keeps changing. The last word I got was 10/31 for the new ship date, hopefully it actually happens. Also when you get your block check it VERY carefully for cracks. My last one was cracked from the pan rail up the side of the block and sideways through the side bolt holes. The crack was a defect, but it's also the second one I've heard about with it.
 

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Just checked my scorched piston from back when... Top ring gap is close to the melt (about an inch away), but in tact. 2nd ring gap is on the complete opposite side of the melt, and the bottom oil rings are in tact.



 

· Boost-aholic
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2,819 Posts
I figured a Teksid block would be the ticket if you are going to be racing. I know you're car is heavy and thought you would like to lose a little weight. Teksids can hold alot of power....just suprised you're going back with an iron block, I guess.



Jr.
 

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2,993 Posts
The Boss block will treat you very well. Well worth the investment. We had to take the deck surface down about .004" to make it mint. The Teksid is good yes, but under large power, the bores will distort over time, unless it's wet sleeved.
 

· Moving on up...
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4,777 Posts
Subbing. Good luck AJ. I'm sure Ed and the others will all be of major help. J&S going in too huh? Your next bullet will be bulletproof my friend.
 

· un1230/Whipple3.4/ Teksid
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2,453 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Do you already have your block? I ask because they have been on back order for well over a month now and the date for shipment keeps changing. The last word I got was 10/31 for the new ship date, hopefully it actually happens. Also when you get your block check it VERY carefully for cracks. My last one was cracked from the pan rail up the side of the block and sideways through the side bolt holes. The crack was a defect, but it's also the second one I've heard about with it.
Yes thats what Steve said the 31st was the expected ship date,Wow that sucks we'll be sure to ck them out real well,thats the first I've heard of them having any issues. Thanks for the heads up

Just checked my scorched piston from back when... Top ring gap is close to the melt (about an inch away), but in tact. 2nd ring gap is on the complete opposite side of the melt, and the bottom oil rings are in tact.



Dam Tony you were right, thats almost identical to mine, do you remember what fuel octane,a/f,size of nitrous jet and spark you were running?? I was not lean by any means on that run,at the point or before it happen I was at low 11's on a/f and usally it would go fatter toward the big end the way I had set. Also did it ruin your cylinder??

I figured a Teksid block would be the ticket if you are going to be racing. I know you're car is heavy and thought you would like to lose a little weight. Teksids can hold alot of power....just suprised you're going back with an iron block, I guess.

Jr.
Hell Jr. you should know me by now,I really don't care about the extra weight, I like my creature comforts and sometimes I think the extra weight is a plus when trying to hook higher tq/hp cars. IMO I use to run mountain motors (524ci and a 636ci) in our pulling trucks so I like the iron blocks for their reliability and this block is over 12 years of re-engineneering to make them better and stronger also better cooling and oiling along with thicker main webings around cylinders that were prone to stress.

The Boss block will treat you very well. Well worth the investment. We had to take the deck surface down about .004" to make it mint. The Teksid is good yes, but under large power, the bores will distort over time, unless it's wet sleeved.
I hope it does thats the reason I chose it for my combo, this will be my race gas motor and if I like how it turns out over time I'm going to build a e-85 motor with this same block,but with a billet crank in it and all the goodies to go with it,will see.

Subbing. Good luck AJ. I'm sure Ed and the others will all be of major help. J&S going in too huh? Your next bullet will be bulletproof my friend.
Thanks, you know Ed's more excited about it then me I think....lol.... so your right its going to be a nice long build with alot of tweaking to say. And yes for sure, one of my next purchases is going to be from John on the J&S SafeGuard (vampire)

AJ
Mofasta
 

· un1230/Whipple3.4/ Teksid
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2,453 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Heres some more pics of piston failure>>>>>>

Black Automotive tire Material property Rim Motor vehicle


Eye Automotive lighting Vision care Eyewear Gas


Hood Automotive lighting Automotive tire Trunk Bumper


Also for those that are interested check the classified sections later on for stuff I'm selling>>>>>
1- posi race ported eaton with match ported Dragon inlet and cog pulley system complete or seperate if de sired.
1-stk eaton for parts or have rebuilt and rotors recoated
1-t-56 with 26 spline input (needs rebuilt)
1-ram twin disc clutch with flywheel and racing compound disc
1-stk clutch cable
1-stk trans crossmember and stk drive shaft with a strange chrome moly slip yoke
Also selling my stk seats front and rear or trade possibably for 2 high end racing seats
 

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Dam Tony you were right, thats almost identical to mine, do you remember what fuel octane,a/f,size of nitrous jet and spark you were running?? I was not lean by any means on that run,at the point or before it happen I was at low 11's on a/f and usally it would go fatter toward the big end the way I had set. Also did it ruin your cylinder??
It's been a while but I'll do my best to remember. We had C16 in the tank. A/F was around 11.5. Jet was a .052 or a .054. Timing was at 18 or 19 degrees. It let go on the dyno at 6200 RPM. It made 680/830 right before it popped. My block looked identical to yours. I did not try to reuse it, because that's when I decided to go crazy with the Teksid/TT build. I do know that a majority of the mess we are seeing on the cylinder walls is aluminum autograph left by the piston, and not horrible damage to the cylinder as it would appear. Those blocks would probably be just fine with a .020 over.


 

· Boost-aholic
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Since you've obviously been busy, did you find any damage from the fire?



Jr.
 

· Administrator
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9,833 Posts
... Thanks, you know Ed's more excited about it then me I think....lol.... so your right its going to be a nice long build with alot of tweaking to say. And yes for sure, one of my next purchases is going to be from John on the J&S SafeGuard (vampire)

AJ
Mofasta
Ed has to admit that engine builds always provide a thrill, sometimes first hand, sometimes vicariously. Either way its a trip.

This one's goal it to be a lot of fun and a minimum of heart/headache.

You will end up with a car that's a barrel of fun to own and drive AJ.

Ed
 

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I really think both of these holes in the piston is from the piston expanding into the wall. I'm sure there was detonation leading that event, but the aluminum left on the cylinder wall took it to a completely different level.

There was a low mileage car down in Florida that wasn't putting down good numbers. A compression test let the tuner to believe the rings were hurt. When the piston came out they discovered the gaps all aligned.
 

· un1230/Whipple3.4/ Teksid
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
It's been a while but I'll do my best to remember. We had C16 in the tank. A/F was around 11.5. Jet was a .052 or a .054. Timing was at 18 or 19 degrees. It let go on the dyno at 6200 RPM. It made 680/830 right before it popped. My block looked identical to yours. I did not try to reuse it, because that's when I decided to go crazy with the Teksid/TT build. I do know that a majority of the mess we are seeing on the cylinder walls is aluminum autograph left by the piston, and not horrible damage to the cylinder as it would appear. Those blocks would probably be just fine with a .020 over.
I think my cylinder may be junk, if you look real close you will see the dent toward the top of the cylinder. Tony this damage was done when you had the eaton strapped on correct? And do you remember what type of boost it was hitting on avg.??

Since you've obviously been busy, did you find any damage from the fire?

Jr.
Jr it was just a small flash fire on header,hell I did more damage with my torch getting the header collectors off...lol...

wow...working hard!! I am too just not on the car at all...lol. Should be out this week I hope
You know it, I couldn't stand it sitting on the lift dripping oil out of all the cracks and seams, so I ripped it apart to see what it looked like. I'm ready for Spring already. You need to get moving its on brother...lol.....

Looking good AJ! I will get with you in the driveshaft. I know of a broken one that needs replaced. :)

LT
Thanks LT get with me on the DS and again I really like how the video was done.
 

· un1230/Whipple3.4/ Teksid
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2,453 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Took my crank too the machine shop today to get it ZyGlo'ed for cracks>>>

Scientific instrument Automotive tire Microscope Gas Automotive wheel system

If it checks good then we will be drilling and tapping snout for stud to strenghten it for whipple abuse......lol....

Also took them my I/C couplers to have some new ones made for double O-rings, I get a little boost bleed on 2-step back into my i/c coolant which builds pressure and fills my overflow tank.>>>

Drinkware Salt and pepper shakers Tableware Table salt Liquid
 

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I was running a 2.93/4lb lower Steigy Eaton A.J. Saw 16-18 psi depending on conditions.

Obviously those pistons got really really hot. In my mind, I feel like the death was a combination of a tight p/w, inferior piston design for what I was trying to do, and a kiss too much timing..
 

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Im just curious to why you picked the JE pistons over CP pistons? could you please explain im going to be buying pistons soon for a new build and wanting to know more about these JE pistons not much info out on them.
 

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Interesting idea with the double seals on the intercooler tubes.
Has this been done before?
I thought about making a better setup for that. But I never noticed that much of a problem with it so I never went on with it.
 

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Im just curious to why you picked the JE pistons over CP pistons? could you please explain im going to be buying pistons soon for a new build and wanting to know more about these JE pistons not much info out on them.
The JE is simply a better piston. Manley's are nice and better than a CP as well.
 
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