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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone! I just got my 2004 TT Cobra fired up for the first time with the MS# Pro, and it seem to be running supper rich trying to idle and has a hard time staying running. I have fuel droplets coming out of the exhaust pipes, and it reeks of fuel when it is running. Does anyone have a base tune for a TT Cobra I could use to see if it helps?
 

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Make sure the warm up enrichment is zeroed out. And just pull some fuel from that area of the table. You can pull some extra to make sure it's not overly rich and baby it until it's warmed up.

All the injector data is correct right?
 

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Hey everyone! I just got my 2004 TT Cobra fired up for the first time with the MS# Pro, and it seem to be running supper rich trying to idle and has a hard time staying running. I have fuel droplets coming out of the exhaust pipes, and it reeks of fuel when it is running. Does anyone have a base tune for a TT Cobra I could use to see if it helps?
Lloyd,

Unlike tuning a carburetor where you have few user adjustable metrics to work with and most 'tuners' don't have a handle on what they are or what they effect, with EFI and in particular an aftermarket system like MS3 Pro you not only have control of all of them but you actually have to adjust them properly for you car to run properly. I highly recommend a DVD set from Greg Banish at CalibratedSuccess.com called Advanced EFI Tuning. If you order direct from Calibrated Success you will save about $200 over Summit.

The next item I would point you at is this video to help you get your idle squared away,
MegaSquirt Idle Tuning Basics. It is a short, but very good, 13 minute tutorial on how to build the idle portion of your Ve table. While you can always go to a dyno shop to get the tune done for you there are several downsides to that approach. Many dyno shops focus on tuning for max power because that is what everyone thinks they want. What you really want is OEM class driveability and power. The Calibrated Success tuning model and the Training Videos like the Idle Tuning Basics will get you there.

With respect to the gas coming out of your tailpipe, that really isn't gas, it is water from condensation that you will always see at cold start. Even so watch the idle tuning basics video and put it to work in your car's tune, you'll be quite pleased. After that begin the process of fleshing out the remainder of your Ve table. Pay attention to the setup, installation, grounding and injector flow discussions in Banish's Advanced EFI Tuning DVD set. The steps that he outlines are fundamental to properly tuning your engine.

Another thing to keep in mind is the fact you will frequently hear stories and warnings about washing out your rings. This is folk lore. A high performance fuel system capable of flowing 750lph only translates into approximately 3.3 gallons per minute. A blown gas AA/A will use ~2.5 times to 3.5 times that much fuel and is in no danger of washing out the rings. A blown Alcohol engine will run a 20 gallon per minute fuel system and they are in no danger of washing out their rings either. A blown fuel motor will run a 110 gallon per minute fuel system and they are also in no danger of washing out their rings. Even if you dumped all 3.3 gallons per minute into your engine w/o any metering for air flow you are two country miles and several light years away from washing out your rings. Washing out rings is and always has been an urban legend that everybody knows about and no one can produce a real life example of. Don't get sucked in.

Do the research, do the learning, watch the video and set up your idle. When you are done, go on to tune the rest of your fuel (Ve) map.

p.s. Tony's admonition about waiting for it to warm up is important. It is easier to tune cold start after your hot idle is squared away and you have to square it away on a fully warmed up engine not a cold one. Once the warm idle is correct you can tune cold start the following day after the engine has cooled to ambient temps.

MOST IMPORTANT you must have your injectors properly flowed so you know their flow characteristics and can input that flow data into the TunerStudio software. If you do not, you will be shooting in the dark. BTW Greg Banish provides an injector characterization (flow calibration) specifically for injectors used with MS3 Pro ECU's. The FRPP data from Ford will not work properly in TunerStudio!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Lloyd,

Unlike tuning a carburetor where you have few user adjustable metrics to work with and most 'tuners' don't have a handle on what they are or what they effect, with EFI and in particular an aftermarket system like MS3 Pro you not only have control of all of them but you actually have to adjust them properly for you car to run properly. I highly recommend a DVD set from Greg Banish at CalibratedSuccess.com called Advanced EFI Tuning. If you order direct from Calibrated Success you will save about $200 over Summit.

The next item I would point you to is this video to help you get your idle squared away,
MegaSquirt Idle Tuning Basics. It is a short, but very good, 13 minute tutorial on how to build the idle portion of your Ve table. While you can always go to a dyno shop to get the tune done for you there are several downsides to that approach. Many dyno shops focus on tuning for max power because that is what everyone thinks they want. What you really want is OEM class driveability and power. The Calibrated Success tuning model and the Training Videos like the Idle Tuning Basics will get you there.

With respect to the gas coming out of your tailpipe, that really isn't gas, it is water from condensation that you will always see at cold start. Even so watch the idle tuning basics video and put it to work in your car's tune, you'll be quite pleased. After that begin the process of fleshing out the remainder of your Ve table. Pay attention to the setup, installation, grounding and injector flow discussions in Banish's Advanced EFI Tuning DVD set. The steps that he outlines are fundamental to properly tuning your engine.

Another thing to keep in mind is the fact you will frequently hear stories and warnings about washing out your rings. This is folk lore. A high performance fuel system capable of flowing 750lph only translates into approximately 3.3 gallons per minute. A blown gas AA/A will use ~2.5 times to 3.5 times that much fuel and is in no danger of washing out the rings. A blown Alcohol engine will run a 20 gallon per minute fuel system and they are in no danger of washing out their rings either. A blown fuel motor will run a 110 gallon per minute fuel system and they are also in no danger of washing out their rings. Even if you dumped all 3.3 gallons per minute into your engine w/o any metering for air flow you are two country miles and several light years away from washing out your rings. Washing out rings is and always has been an urban legend that everybody knows about and no one can produce a real life example of. Don't get sucked in.

Do the research, do the learning, watch the video and set up your idle. When you are done, go on to tune the rest of your fuel (Ve) map.

p.s. Tony's admonition about waiting for it to warm up is important. It is easier to tune cold start after your hot idle is squared away and you have to square it away on a fully warmed up engine not a cold one. Once the warm idle is correct you can tune cold start the following day after the engine has cooled to ambient temps.

MOST IMPORTANT you must have your injectors properly flowed so you know their flow characteristics and can input that flow data into the TunerStudio software. If you do not, you will be shooting in the dark. BTW Greg Banish provides an injector characterization (flow calibration) specifically for injectors used with MS3 Pro ECU's. The FRPP data from Ford will not work properly in TunerStudio!
So, in my excitement to get the car started and running, I overlooked the fact I didn't have my wideband sensor installed....at all. Yeah. So I will start there and figure out if I am wired up correctly.
 

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You are missing important foundational EFI system check points and setup requirements that are covered in the Banish DVDs, not to mention other hard copy publications like Banish's book on Engine Management / Advanced Tuning. While you can continue to pursue the ready, shoot, aim tuning model, you would be better served to embrace a more informed ready, aim, shoot tuning model. The ready, aim, shoot tuning model will require you to obtain the requisite learning and instructional materials and then actually use them to learn and understand an EFI fuel delivery system and of course embrace and implement it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
You are missing important foundational EFI system check points and setup requirements that are covered in the Banish DVDs, not to mention other hard copy publications like Banish's book on Engine Management / Advanced Tuning. While you can continue to pursue the ready, shoot, aim tuning model, you would be better served to embrace a more informed ready, aim, shoot tuning model. The ready, aim, shoot tuning model will require you to obtain the requisite learning and instructional materials and then actually use them to learn and understand an EFI fuel delivery system and of course embrace and implement it.
I agree. I plan on reading up and watching as much media as I can about it before I start it up again, right now I am just making sure everything is communicating as it should (wideband to ECU, ect.). The info you provided will give me a much better understanding as what I am looking at when I have tuner studio opened up as well as the do's/don'ts of my tune file. It may be a slow process, but I am confident I will get there. Having people on these forums to reach out to and give me guidance like you have is a godsend, and I appreciate it very much indeed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
OK, I verified that my wideband is not communicating with the ECU. I think there may be a break in the wire somewhere, but will meter for continuity and power from the wideband to the connector on the back of the ECU. I think my sensor may be on the way out too. It works, but it is very slow to respond.
 

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OK, I verified that my wideband is not communicating with the ECU. I think there may be a break in the wire somewhere, but will meter for continuity and power from the wideband to the connector on the back of the ECU. I think my sensor may be on the way out too. It works, but it is very slow to respond.

You might want to re-read my post #6,

You are missing important foundational EFI system check points and setup requirements that are covered in the Banish DVDs, not to mention other hard copy publications like Banish's book on Engine Management / Advanced Tuning. While you can continue to pursue the ready, shoot, aim tuning model, you would be better served to embrace a more informed ready, aim, shoot tuning model. The ready, aim, shoot tuning model will require you to obtain the requisite learning and instructional materials and then actually use them to learn and understand an EFI fuel delivery system and of course embrace and implement it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
You might want to re-read my post #6,
Ed, to clarify, I did not start the car to do any of the troubleshooting. I only keyed power on (no start and running of the motor) to get the ECU to communicate with my laptop and to get the wideband powered up. I calibrated the wideband and it worked fine but showed nothing in tuner studio. I then tested the wideband using butane from a BIC, and it went from full lean 22.4 to full rich (slow to respond), again not showing anything in tuner studio, so I am pretty sure there is a break in the line from the wideband to the ECU. I will pull the connector off from the ECU and meter it out tomorrow to verify, and if it is good, I will power up the wideband and see if I have voltage (5 volts at 22.4 afr) at the connector for that pin. I don't plan on starting the car again until I get more knowledgeable with tuner studio and do the reading and videos as you suggested.
 
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