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I seen this the other day. I am very excited to see this come out and looking forward to getting one!
Thanks as always for the detailed info Ed.

Ken
 

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Ed
Or anyone else reading this with experience!
What are your thoughts on running this as speed density with a map sensor and no MAF meter?
I’ve always liked the thought of being able to ditch the MAF with an aftermarket ecu but also know some still like to retain it. My understanding is you can do either with this computer. Just curious if you have a preference and what benefits there are with either configuration.

Thanks
Ken
 

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That really summed it up quite well for me Ed. I definitely want the simplicity and finer tuning and control that will come with running a MAF versus speed density. When my motor is done and a new bigger blower goes on I’ll definitely be looking to the Pro-M to handle that duty.

Ken
 

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I’ve been reading through the manual and looking up mod motor cars that are running the current version of the MS3Pro (not the pnp). I have to say I’m getting more and more excited for the pnp release and using it on my new motor set up. I’ve read through the set up and tuning info and I will be taking Kevin’s advice and have someone experienced with the MS3Pro tuning do my car. I don’t need to melt down a new motor due to my inexperience. I will learn it and eventually do my own tweaking and adjustments down the road but only once I have a good foothold and understanding of the system as a whole.

Definitely looking forward to everything this system is capable of!

Ken
 

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You’re absolutely right Ed. There’s no better way to say it regarding the wire task between a pnp system and one you have to build from basically scratch. For me that is what has kept me away from a stand alone aftermarket ECU as well as the fact that I like the factory gauge cluster. I realize some of the gauges are just pretty versions of a dummy light but I just am a fan of the factory look. Getting back to the wiring....I hate wiring and doing anything with electrical. I’m a Union Pipefitter by trade so wiring has just never been my thing. I’ve done some wiring of gauges and some switches and relays for my trans brake and a few other things but I always cringe when it comes time to reconnect the battery and power things up lol. So much to the point that I have rolled my car out of my garage before putting power to it in the off chance I burn it down. So between the pnp aspect of it and the factory gauge support I’m sold. Sure I could have someone else do it but I pride myself on the fact that I have done everything myself to my car except for tuning and it will continue to go that way. I know I will have some wiring to tackle for some of the features that require extra signal inputs but I guarantee if I had to do the whole thing I would mess ALOT more than just a few wires and would probably end up building the harness 3 times or more. Aggravating would be putting it lightly :)

Ken
 

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I know there is info out there on where to install the knock sensors on a Terminator engine. The J&S vampire knock control has several options in their instructions for locations at the sides of the block. I believe that info is on their site. I saved it somewhere but will have to look a bit for it.

Ken
 

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Ed,
Maybe you can answer a question (or know who to ask) regarding the traction control. First I’m assuming it will use the factory abs sensors to get its wheel speed readings. Even if this is not the case then a wheel speed sensor would need added to achieve this. My question is 2 part. First, does or can it in fact use the factory front and rear factory abs sensors? Second, will there be anyway to put in values by hand for the front and the rear independently of each other? Reason I ask is I run a 28” tall M&H drag radial in the rear and my front tires are closer to a 26” tire height. I already have an intermittent abs light that comes on due to the difference in tire height. I would like to know if this can be accounted for with the MS3PRO PnP so there are no issues with using the traction control feature and if this could also eliminate the abs light and restore proper abs function?

Thanks
Ken
 

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Thank you as always Ed and Kevin.
I’ve read through the manual but I guess not enough for some of the things to sink in like the traction control methods. I completely missed the ability to set tire height between the front and rear tires.

Ken
 

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This thing is amazing, I can't wait till this is available!

View attachment 170443
Exactly lol 😂

Have they set a hard date for release yet? Originally I thought it was late November but it sounds like it may be sooner. Ed do you have a hard date for your preproduction unit for your evaluation and write up?
I realize I could call them, but just curious if someone else had already and had a release date.

Thanks
Ken
 

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I like the VSS by % method but after reading back through the tc methods I now have another question.
I know the factory traction control is absolute crap, but would the module it uses qualify for use with the Switched Input method?
Whether it does or doesn’t, Kevin mentioned in his post about using the factory traction control button to turn on the MS3PRO traction control. I would like a bit more info from those more electronically and computer savvy on how to go about this.

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Ken
 

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That’s great news!
Ed or Josh, can either of you share with me the dealer or contact with a number to who you are buying from? I am trying to get in fairly early just to get my hands on it and mark that off my list. My car isn’t ready for it quite yet but I would feel better to have it in my hands as soon as possible.

EDIT: Never mind the question. I just placed my order with DIYautotune off they’re website. They now have it under the new products category available for purchase.

I didn’t order a serial cable yet. They have 2 listed one is M8 and the other is M12. I don’t know the difference between them or which is the correct one to get for the 03-04 Cobra.

Thanks
Ken
 

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Yep. Ordered and paid for mine last night. Says it will ship 10-11-19.
So looking forward to this!
It must be the USB adapter I was thinking of. I’ll pick that up along with the Bluetooth to RS232 adapter. You suggested Ed.

Ken
 

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I believe the switched approach will work with the MS3Pro because the doc says it will. I am not confident it will work with the OEM TC because that was in the factory ECU which is no longer in the car after you install the MS3Pro system.

More significantly the range of TC options that the MS3Pro offers are so much more attractive than the single OEM alternative I would not even attempt to use the OEM alternative. Besides we all have at one time or another and we all have eventually turned it off, soooo ....

Ed
Got it! I wasn't sure if the Cobra TC had a separate module that talked to the factory ecu. As I understand it from you guys it appears it was all in the ecu.
No worries, the VSS by % sounds like the best way to go for my needs and use. The Perfect Run methods while interesting are probably overkill for me and seems that they would need a lot of tweaking to get them dialed in.
VSS by % it is for me

Ken
 

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I have mine setup as a flex fuel car and it's great. As far as I'm concerned any street car that is tuned on E85 should be flex fuel. There has been MANY times I had to get gas and no E85 was nearby so I simply put in what I wanted. I think this is the senosr I used:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-13577429/overview/

I was afraid that the inlet/outlet ports would be too small so I made a "block" that directed fuel outside the main 1/2" fuel line then back into it so the sensor wouldn't be a restriction. This probably isn't necessary but I only wanted to do this once and it wasn't going to hurt.

View attachment 170451

It doesn't matter if it's in the feed or return line since it's not measuring flow volume. I have it mounted in the pass. fender along with the regulator.

I have no idea how my tuner set the program up to use it but I could probably make some screen shots if needed. I think there is only three wires so wiring is easy.

ks

Edit:
Here's some of the flex fuel tables as far as wiring and fuel settings. I don't know if this is all of them (probably not) but maybe it will help someone get started.

View attachment 170453
Good info as always. I had planned to put mine in parallel in the return line of the dead head return system I am going to be installing mainly due to wanting to avoid any disruption in flow to the fuel rails.

Kevin who did your tuning? I will need to find someone to do the initial tune for my car when it's ready. I'm willing to trailer the car up to 12 hours for a very good and thorough MS3PRO tuner. Preferably not that far but I have already taken it 11 hours before for tuning.

Thanks
Ken
 

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Chad Fegley who owns The Shop here in Lincoln Ne. He really loves and knows the MS products and told me to get it so I did, no questions asked. He's been using the MS products for 10+ years and has the MSPro on his 1100hp Vette. He has a Mustang Dyno which my car was tuned on and a Dynojet.

Just to praise Chad a bit his Midwest Mayhem team is also competing in Horsepower Wars 2019 $10K Drag Shootout and is kicking ass:

https://www.horsepowerwars.com/hors...tout-2-episode-4-middle-of-the-builds-part-1/

KS
That is fantastic!!
Ehh it's less than 10 hours from me. I'll definitely be keeping him in mind.
Thank you

Ken
 

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Thank you Ed. I had a feeling running the sensor in parallel even on the return side would be necessary. I remember all of your dead head return discussions regarding the amount of fuel needing to be returned while driving around at part throttle picking up groceries in an 800 rwhp vehicle 😂

I sure can’t wait to start reading everyone’s reviews and results when they start implementing the MS3PRO PnP on their vehicles and start digging into all the extra features it brings. I’ll definitely be trailing most of the others as I don’t even have a finished motor yet. I probably should’ve spent the money on some 10.5:1 Gibtec’s for my Aluminator build but I just had to get my hands on this first.

Thanks
Ken
 

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You will get excellent power numbers from ethanol at almost any compression ratio from 9:1 on up the scale even into the thin air around 13:1, Ken. The real benefit(s) of the ethanol are the high octane ~105 or so depending on percentage and the high latent heat of evaporation compared to gasoline.

While it is true the higher the c/r, typically the higher the power, unless you have a reliable E85 or better source the occasional dips to E50 (or worse) require a flex fuel capable ECU to really tone down the tune (no pun intended) to avoid detonation. As the tune gets toned down the driver will notice the car's response to the gas pedal begins to soften making for a less attractive driving experience (once you get used to the real crisp throttle response of E85).

For a primarily street driven vehicle I would probably draw the line at about 12:1 compression. That said if you already have purchased lower compression pistons, if you don't want to sell them, they will give you an excellent operating experience but I would not go below 9:1. It is worthwhile remembering that when you can't buy E85 and you have to fuel with proletariate pump gas, even really good 98 octane will make the engine feel less responsive than its E85 alternative.

================

The flex fuel capability is primarily to save your (and your engine's) bacon when you get too far from an E85 source and your choices are walking home or detonating home on a poor grade of gas. Enough fuel to get home and no more will save you all the unpleasant alternatives if you are flex fuel enabled.

Ed
Ed
I was going to be asking about compression ratio when I got closer to ordering my Gibtecs but since you brought it up here I may as well ask.
My Cobra will be primarily driven on e85 as I have a decent number of e85 stations around my area. HOWEVER, it will get the occasional 93 octane fill ups when needed due to lack of available e85 on longer drives or even possibly just due to convenience. For this reason I have absolutely been wanting the flex fuel ability the the MS3PRO brings to the table. My question then comes as to what compression would be ideal knowing it will see the occasional 93 octane fill up as needed. I'm not looking to make the most power possible on 93 but don't want to have to worry about putting my foot in it with a tank full of 93 octane. I had originally set my sites on 10.5:1 Gibtec pistons thinking I would have to switch back and forth between tunes for e85 vs 93 (before the flex fuel ability came into the picture). Now after reading your comments above I'm wondering if I could possibly get away with a little bit more compression say somewhere between 11:1 and 11.5:1. What are your thoughts? It will consist of the following
Brand new Fully built Aluminator block with brand new Roush ported DC casting heads, Gibtec pistons, Molnar power adder rods, factory forged crank, custom or off the shelf spec cams (yet to be determined) full set of Cloyes adjustable cam gears all the little upgrades plus ARP everything. Topped off with a Whipple Gen4 2.9 or the Gen5 that is supposedly on its way. Backed by a Lentech Strip Terminator 4r70w trans.
All dialed in with the MS3PRO.
Probably more info than needed but I figured it wouldn't hurt.

Thanks
Ken
 

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Thank you Ed and Kevin
Sounds like 10:1 it is.
I have always in the past kept a separate pulley, belt and tools in my trunk to drop boost if needed. I intend to run 24-26 psi on E85 but have no problem dropping that as low as I can with a quick upper pulley change at the gas station or parking lot if I can’t get more than 93.
I wish I didn’t have to worry about pump gas but I need to be realistic and realize E85 won’t always be available.
I will definitely be using the knock control feature as well as any other safeguards I can.

Thanks
Ken
 
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