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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok well today i went to kauffmann motorsports for a retune with my new RR 14# pulley. My old #s were 407rwhp 388rwtq. After hours of chasing a few problems and getting things sorted out the car made 407rwhp 410rwtq. The car stops making boost @ 10psi. The power falls after 5500 rpm. Is the P1SC just not able to handle my combo? i have ported heads and SHM cams. The curve should keep on climbing. They showed me other dyno sheets with D1SCs and the graphs rise all the way to 6500+. Is it time to upgrade to a D1SC or what? They did an awsome job tuning the car, i am definetely going back to them once things are sorted out. I thought it would make more power and boost then what it did, but it wouldnt, @ no fault of Kauffmann. They did a great job. Any one else have this happen with a p1. ohh and no im not gonna buy a Vortech :p Here is the graph

 

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Is your belt slipping???

Also, are you sure you got the correct pulley?

My buddy went to Kauffman's (they are awesome) with his new 3.25 inch pulley for his new Novi 2000, the place he ordered the pulley from sent him another stock 3.5 inch pulley.

Luckily he had a 3" pulley from his old Novi 1000 with him and they put that on, even after the large Paxton intercooler he is making 12-13# of boost.

At 5900rpm, he was afraid to take it any higher on the dyno as boost was climbing fast, he made 413rwhp and 400rwtq SAE on the stock longblock with a ultraconservative 10 degrees of timing, they said with a forged internal block he easily could have made 450rwhp+ safely, but to preserve the stock block they kept everything as tame as possible.

Good luck getting the boost situation figured out,
Howard

Also, maybe when you order a 14# pulley, that is before the intercooler, meaning lik 10-12# after the intercooler???
I've always wondered, if you order a 8# Procharger kit, it must be making 10#+ before the intercooler, I'd check into that.:confused:
 

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I am not sure what pulley you are running, but that blower should definately not be falling off like that! I would give Procharger a call and tell/show them what it is doing, I just think you need a smaller pulley. You are moving more air now than you were before with the ported heads, so the pulley you have did add airflow. The boost is just a measure of restriction!
 

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I had the same problem with my setup, except that I'm down to 6 psi. There's no belt slippage. I asked the same questions on a few other sites and it seems as if the P1SC did just run out of blower.

Here's the posts from my querries, (if you'd like to read up on the advice I was given):

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=342494

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=324273

One of the guys over there posted a formula to see if you're close to overspinning the blower by adding either a smaller blower pulley or a larger crank pulley:

Crank/blower*engine RPM*blower gear ratio=impeller RPM

Does this seem correct for everyone??

If I went with the 8" crank pulley from ASP and kept the 3.10" blower pulley I'd overspin the blower at 6000 rpms.

8/3.1*6000*4.10=63483.9 RPM <---That's what's making me so nervous.

I haven't called ATI yet, however. If you get any answers from them, Juiced46, please let me know.
 

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If you are turning the blower that hard, and it is running out of steam, it is clearly over rated by Procharger.
 

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I honestly don't know enough about superchargers to have an answer; hence all the lengthy questioning.

Does it make sense that the blower IS, indeed running out of steam? If the belt isn't slipping, and changing the pulley(s) could possibly overspin the blower, what other options are there??
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I was originally running the 10# pulley i believe it is either a 3.4 or a 3.2 On the car now is a Reichard Racing 3.00 pulley. It is definetely the right pulley and size. It is "supposed" to make 14#s. I cant believe that the blower is running out of steam either. I am running a gatorback belt with the Reichard pulley. With my combo my power should not fall like that. It should keep climbing.
 

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Sounds to me like the p1 is just over rated and cant move the air you need.

OR get a vortech:banggears
 

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I just spoke with Eric at ATI and he agreed that the P1SC is just maxxed out now. He also said that the D1SC will DEFINATELY work; (he's seeing 570 RWHP on a '97 with a built motor and a D1SC).

Eric also said that the F1 would work, but it's a different blower completely and that the intake tube would need to be changed. The D1, however, is upgradeable--just send in your old P1SC and they'll upgrade it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Then why do they claim it is good up to 20 something #s?
 

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Dunno??

Maybe it is good to over 20 psi as long as the blower's not overspun. I don't know enough about blowers to have a definitive answer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I can understand the blower not making 20#s. But i figure it can go a little more then 10. I am going to try a few things and hopefully get this fixed. Something is not right here.

Dave
 

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If you are looking at the procharger web site... as far as the max 30psi boost. I made the same mistake when I was first staring out with blowers. That is the rating where if you had the blower blowing into a giant CAN. It would Dead Head at that PSI. Meaning at what is a P1SC... something like 30psi right.... That means that it could produce 30psi of boost, before the air would then slip past the impeller and back out the intake. I know it sounds odd, but the are blowers, not air compressors for 100psi.

Tommy303... if your motor is flowing A LOT, with low compression that would be a reason for the lower number. When I swapped to low compression I lost a fair amount of "boost"

I think we all need to look at what "boost" really is. It's just a measure of restriction. Lets say If you have a blower with a 3.40 pulley on a restrictive motor and it makes 15psi. Then you take that same blower, same pulley and put it on a motor with cams, head work, low compression, etc... it then makes 10psi.

Is the blower turning slower? Nope
Is the blower moving less air? Nope
Is the blower broken? Nope.
But is your motor now more effcient? YES!

I can tell you from experence you will have no regrets making the D1-Sc swap! Period.

EA
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
SVTkid, i understand how boost is a measure of restriction. I wouldnt care if the car made 2#s as long as the power is there :) I would say i have a decently flowing motor. Low compression, ported heads, LTs, straight thru muffs, and SHM cams. I just feel there is something not right. And from my graph you can see. The power should not flat line like that, especially with my setup. So im leaning towards that the belt is slipping and hopefully i can fix it. What gets me is i was making 10#s on the 3.4 pulley and making 10-11#s on the 3.0. So something is not right. I did gain some TQ, i gained a wopping .1 HP. my HP and TQ across the board showed significant gains. The new pulley is doing something down low, but up top something is wrong. I noticed that the blower pulley alignment is a few thousandths off and it is starting to chew the belt. I am going to fix the alignment, hopefully tonight and put a new belt on and see if that does anything. I will post back with results. Thanks! You've all been a great help

ohh and the D1SC swap is defintetely going to happen. Just not sure when due to lack of funds.

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yes i switched to an RR 3.00 pulley
 

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forget the PSI rating of the blower. It is rated to flow 1200cfm, which should easily support 500+rwhp
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well i got rid of the gatorback belt. it actually had a rib missing from it. My blower pulley wasnt lined up perfect. I fixed that and now it lines up perfect. Put a new belt on and went for a ride. Boost still is the same. I think it is slipping, it has to be. I do not know if i should try a slightly smaller belt. Also i am going to replace the tensioner to the upgraded one, hopefully that helps a little. Im stumped what else to do besides going to a D1SC.
 

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SVTkid: I'm currently looking into either upgrading my P1SC to a D1SC, or maybe even going with the fully crazy F1. How much power did you make after the swap?? My goal is 500 RWHP...

Maybe Juiced46 and I can find someone willing to cut us a deal on upgrading our blowers...

Oh, and I LOST power when I forged my motor. I went from 399 to 388 and 420 RWTQ to 404.

I understand what happened, now I just need to get the money to "fix" the problem!! :D

Thanx for all of the good info!
 

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Tommy303~~ On my car when it was 100% bone stock (stock cats, stock mufflers, you get the idea) D1-SC With a 4.00" pulley, and 50lb injectors, with a Good safe tune. It made 437 RWHP, with 10psi of boost right at 6,900 RPM. I wish I could dig you up a graph somewhere. Maybe I will find it.

Then I got rods and pistons, added a X-pipe, mufflers, and LT's also then added a A1000 Fuel pump, and some AN Line. She made 550+ RWHP (depending on chip) with the same D1-SC with a 3.60" pulley, and about 17psi of boost. Still had stock cams, no porting, IMRC plates still there, etc.

I hope this helps. And YES there was A LOT of time spent tuning the car. Even after it was all said and done she still had issues at stop lights with the AC on. I don't know why, didn't really care all that much. But she had a bit of a wandering idle. It could have been a number of things, but I have now swapped to the FAST system, and other changes. SO no real use trying to scratch my head about it now.

I had a F1 blower for a short while, sort of loaned to me. I never got a chance to tune it. Nor the time to make a custom intake for the front of it to clear the radiator. So I don't have any power numbers from that either. I just went back to the D1-SC and put about 10K happy miles on her.

When you swap to the F1 make sure and do your math. Since that the blower now has a gear ratio internaly of 5.0:1 where as your old p1/d1 was 4.10:1 That makes for a large difference. I had to run the huge 4.00" on the F1 to keep the blower speed down, so the boost wasn't going to hurt the motor on pump gas. The F1 was a very trick unit, and just pretty to look at since it is all CNC plates.

Hope this helps. If you have any questions, always feel free to PM me. THough I am only on this site once a day or so.... so please bear with me.

EA

PS: I have a cobra, so I don't know if you were looking for 2v power numbers or 4v. I will try to stick to my own area :)
 
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