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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ok i have the PI heads, and i had intentions of getting them ported. i am at a loss for money due to me getting pulled over, and have to pay for a lawyer. i decided i would have to just put them in unported, but i hate to have my compression that high, cause a supercharger is what i seek in the near future.

i still need to buy head changing parts. that will cost about 350-400. i saw these heads for sale on corral, they are 97 ported and polished, for 350 shipped. i could buy these, and get the 105 dollar head changing kit from steeda, and i could use my PI cams on the heads, and sell the PI heads. this will keep my compression down and net the same results as the PI heads.

any advice? what would you do?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
i am so limited to the compression though that is what i hate, is there anyway to get rid of that compression when i need to, without going with different heads, or pistons?
 

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nope your stuck with the compression without working the heads or putting a dish piston in later. Go for the PI then when you put the charger on either port them or put forged dish pistons in
 

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ROL cometic head gaskets, twice as thick as stock (.78), drops the compression around a point or so. $240 a set and reusable. I dont have the #, but i got it from randy stichomb (sp?)
 

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apparently so, i havent personally done it yet, but thats what i was told to do. I dont know why you woudlnt go ahead and put them on in the first place so you dont have to tear it back apart
 

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Everyone always says go with the PI headswap when they have proven that a port/polish/valvejob on the 96-98 heads will get them to flow better than the PI heads by far, and even make them competitive with the CNC porter PI heads. If you put PI cams in worked nonPI heads you will see excellent results. I shopped this around and found that for 600 dollars I could get a stage 1+ port job with valve work done that would net me 35-40 HP on the dyno...add in the cams and it goes to 50+. The shop specializes in full race applications but the main man in the cylinder head department is a former 96 Mustang owner as well as a 2001 Mustang owner. He has done this work for himself as well as his friends. He guarantees his results. He is also probably giving me a small price break...but it wouldnt be too much more for somebody else. The drawback is that non-race car related work takes a backseat, so the turnaround is about two weeks. Now...take 600 bucks for headwork, 150 for the PI cams (thats what I paid) and voila....you are making easily as much power as you would with the head swap, you are 600 dollars richer, and you are still at your stock compression. Argue it all you want...and Im sure some will.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
if i do the headgaskets now, i wont see much power gain will i? i thought the compression is what gave u that much of a gain?
 

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instead of 60 or so you will see around 45
 

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1+ port job with valve work done that would net me 35-40 HP on the dyno...add in the cams and it goes to 50+.
true but now your heads are already ported where the PI would be stock, everyone compares the ported 96-98 heads to stock PI heads, thats bull. Your statement clearly states that you must do al that work to the 96-98 heads just to get the HP of the stock PI heads.

Now port the PI heads and see what kind of gains you will get, are there some 96-98 stangs out there with ported 96-98 heads and PI cams making 300-320 RWHP....NO but they are with the ported PI heads

Now...take 600 bucks for headwork, 150 for the PI cams (thats what I paid) and voila....you are making easily as much power as you would with the head swap, you are 600 dollars richer,
Now for this statement, where are you getting these #'s from I completed the headswap on mine for under 600 Complete on the car and running for 540.00, so that means that I am 40 richer and another 25-30 HP over what you will be able to achieve

I am the alst one to start flaming but I have seen 20+ posts in teh last 6 months of people comparing 96-98 ported heads to stock PI heads and what they dont reallize is that yes they will flow better but they are maxed you can get no more and the PI heads are still untouched.

However If you are planning ona charger later on this route is not for you. I do like the idea of the headgaskets mentioned since yo uneed them anyway and yes the compression bump gives you some of the power but most comes form the heads and the cams alone

Whatever you decide go and look around at people's dyno #'s with both setup's and see who is making the most power N/A
 

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What you said...
everyone compares the ported 96-98 heads to stock PI heads,
What I am saying..
that a port/polish/valvejob on the 96-98 heads will get them to flow better than the PI heads by far, and even make them competitive with the CNC porter PI heads.
They will flow better than stock PI heads...not as well, but better. They will be competitive withe ported PI heads. I am going to have to find a way to scan the flow charts in I guess.

What you said...
Now for this statement, where are you getting these #'s from I completed the headswap on mine for under 600 Complete on the car and running for 540.00, so that means that I am 40 richer and another 25-30 HP over what you will be able to achieve
The price I am coming up with is a new in the box shipped PI headswap kit. Now you may have shopped your parts used and that is fine, I dont know where you found the complete headswap kit with headbolts and gaskets for 540.00 but that is simply good shopping on your part. You obviously got a huge steal on the stuff. As far as you getting 25-30 over what I could achieve with my 750 dollars PNP and cams? How does 60 HP vs. 50+ equal 25-30? Its ten or less. I would like to see a standard headswap yield more than 60 HP to the wheels...it doesnt happen. Maybe I just took your post out of context and if I did, please clarify for me. Keep in mind also that the more money you spend on the port work and valve train the more HP results you will get. I have been told that if I want to spend it the cash I could get 80+ HP out of my heads...but it wouldnt come cheap.

Now I am going to point out some flow data in the recent issue on the ModMax heads which were CNC ported and had their intake flow benched at 213 cfm...ported non PI heads will flow up to 211 cfm with no problem. And with some work the exhaust will also flow comparitively well. Now this is a comparison of ported vs. ported. How can you argure those results? The point I am making is that there is a cheaper route. If you can find a deal like Badfast96, that is great. But the reality that I have seen on the net is usually used kits end up going for around 750 or so and the headbolt kits and gasket will run you around 150 as well. 750 is still cheaper and the results are just about the same. It is simply a cheaper alternative overall...not neccassarily better, but not worse.
 

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badfast96 said:
are there some 96-98 stangs out there with ported 96-98 heads and PI cams making 300-320 RWHP....NO but they are with the ported PI heads
Sounds like what I will be making. Will find out thursday. I already have the PI heads and cams. They have been fully ported/polished by L&M engines with an angle valve job and a custom Comp Cam. I will be sure to post the results as soon as I get her back. It's been gone for almost 4 weeks, and BETTER be worth the wait.
 

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stanggt00 said:
Sounds like what I will be making. Will find out thursday. I already have the PI heads and cams. They have been fully ported/polished by L&M engines with an angle valve job and a custom Comp Cam. I will be sure to post the results as soon as I get her back. It's been gone for almost 4 weeks, and BETTER be worth the wait.
How much cash did you have to lay out for all that?
 

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Results? Argue them..??????
I'll argue them. 213 sucks.P.I or NON P.I.

Flow 248 CFM and then say they are the same.

248 is just a stepping stone with the P.I.'s.

My personal heads are flowing alot more then that.
And since Im the 2 valve dyno king,I do have plenty of dyno's to back my claims up.:)

How about the Non P.I heads..Any wonderful,breath taking dyno's to back up the claims they are equal?


Tim




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I got my numbers from comparing the flow data of the very expensive CNC ported Mod Max PI heads ( the numbers that were published) and compared them to ported non PI heads. The non PI heads had more room to grow according to what I have read and been told. All I am saying is that there is an option. Breath taking dyno results? No, I didnt claim to, Im just sharing information that is accurate...I never said those were max flow numbers...just numbers that I found. It just seems that any mention of anyone thinking about sticking with non PI heads is met with tons of resistance. And if you are running 700HP on a 2V then you have a lot more money to burn than most people. Maybe some guys want to save some money and keep their compression stock? This is only an alternative...Im not saying its best. People shouldnt be so quick to jump. He was just asking about the differences, that is what I was replying to. Breath taking dyno results...thats good.
 

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Ported P.I heads
8.9:1 compression
Jba Shorty headers
2.5 inch exhaust
O/R Dr.Gas
Cams
Vortech strim
NO intercooler.

619rwhp.


You wont do that with NON P.i heads.
This was in street trim.
680rwhp with a JT rim,same setup..Street trim.

I have a simple setup.:)

Nothing anyone else cannot do with the right port work.
 

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Tim, those are certainly impressive numbers but dont tell me you are doing that with stock internals. I am assuming you are running forged, dished pistons...forged rods? Crank? Is it as simple as you say?
 

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Yes forged motor.And yes it is simple with the right combo.
Its all in a good combo.I could set anyone up with it and make the same power.
We are far past this combo now,but that was my base.
It made 619rwhp with a Strim. 2 years ago..

Jimmy V has a very similar setup.He uses a Procharger tho.
I have always been open about what I did.

Boss96 tried it with Non P.I. heads.He ended up 100rwhp behind me.He also had L/T's.:)

Tim
 

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Still way out of my price range. I guess I was just thinking along the lines of a budget oriented street car. I would love to make half that power. I have to agree that if you are taking it to extremes then the PI heads will work out better. Again I was just keeping it on a budget. Heck...if money isnt a problem...lol.
 
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