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Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Preface: I know this isn't that other site but I am looking for opinions and thoughts at this point...

Ok, so I really don't know where to start with this, but here's the best I can do right now:

Last month I started looking for Whipples or KBs online. I found an older 2.3L Whipple being sold by *removed for now* on SVTP for a decent price, and talked to him thru PM's and we came to an agreement on price ($2000 plus shipping costs). I sent him a certified check via Registered mail. He got it a few days later and told me he sent out the blower, and sent me a tracking number via PM. It showed up in a reasonable amount of time, and I opened the package when I got home from work on Thursday, (2-12-09). It was packaged well, and in the original Whipple box and packing materials. This is where the problems started.

I opened the box and took it out and placed it on my workbench to clean it up. One thing I noticed was that the inlet and outlet of the blower were not covered or taped at all. This was annoying, but not really a big deal to me, although in my eyes it did show neglect. I got it cleaned up and a couple pieces of trash out of the inlet and was about to put it on when I noticed that something wasn't right about the pulley. I started playing with it more and more and realized that it was damaged pretty badly. I looked at the box, and sure enough it was damaged as well. It looked as if the box had been dropped on the snout end of the blower, to where the full weight of the blower was on the pulley when it impacted the ground. The box had a hole in it where the pulley had poked through it a bit from the impact.

I decided to look at it more the next day so I immediately called UPS and placed a claim for the damaged goods. They told me to box it up and they would pick it up the next day to inspect it. I ended up calling them back and telling them that I wasn't going to let them take the blower since I didn't want to have to wait forever to get some kind of resolution. They said that was fine and that they would give me a call to schedule the inspection. It turns out that this was a good thing since it turns out also that the seller did not put insurance on the package. (Had I let them take it, they would have taken 4-6 weeks and probably only given me $100 and probably kept the blower.) I really question this; shipping out a package worth $2000 and not insuring it…

The lack of insurance is the source of all my problems right now. I have talked to UPS numerous times, from the Thursday (2-12) I received the blower, up until today (2-18), and the most they will cover is $100 plus the shipping costs. To me, this is complete crap since it's an obvious shipping error. So, I have a blower that needs at LEAST a new snout, and a pulley and I have $100 to fix it with. I have kept the seller up to date with the situation, and I have called and spoken with the franchise owner of the UPS Store he shipped the blower out from. Really, I am sitting here screwed out of any money I have to pay to fix this thing…and to be honest; I can't afford it right now. I have already spent a lot of money getting ready for this swap, and now for this to happen makes it much worse.

I have given the seller ample time to work with me on this issue and I have not been able to speak with him on the phone since Saturday afternoon (2-14). I have called him four times or so (my phone records show twice on 2-17, and at least once on 2-16; phone doesn't go back any further), once a day since that day to speak with him about certain things, but I get no call returned. I finally got fed up with him not calling me back, and yesterday left him a message telling him that he needed to call me back and work this out since this was not my problem, nor my fault seeing as he didn't put insurance on the package. I still have not received a call back, and am at my wit's end on how to deal with this.

Seller, if you read this, all I ask from you to make this right is to buy me a new snout and pulley for the blower. I have spoken to Whipple today (and Monday-Tuesday as well), and that's all it seems it needs. I have already bought the pulley, and I got it for a good price so there should be no issue there. I will take this as the one and only resolution to this problem.

Also, I have another question; did you pop a motor with this Whipple on top? I found very small chunks of metal in the inlet and very back of the rotors that look to be from an engine. They are certainly not from the blower; I have looked it over and can't see where it would have come from on the blower. If this happened, why did you not tell me before I bought it? This is need-to-know information for a buyer…

So, in closing, I am sitting here with a blower that may or may not work with a snout replacement, and it might work as it is with a new pulley. So, folks, what do you think? I hope I am doing the right thing here, but I feel as if I am getting nowhere with the seller and UPS and I need to resort to posting this in the open forum. I really hate doing this, and will edit my post if he will try to help me out here, but until then, this is going to stay.

Here's a link to the tracking for the package (you can see where I have opened the claim): http://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/...umber1=1ZR031E60359794420&track.x=0&track.y=0

Here are the original pics he sent me (the blower looks to be in good shape): http://pfomustangs.com/htj/index.php?dir=cobra/whipple

Here are the PM's between us, in chronological order:

Me: Hey man, you got a KB for sale?

Seller: Its a whipple 2.3

Me: Price/details/etc? I am interested if we can agree on a price.

Seller: its a 2300ax with about 9k miles. Its black and has the single blade tb inlet. $2200 + shipping

Me: Will you take $2000 plus shipping? Do you need anything on trade? I will come out and say that I don't have all the money right now (have about 70%), can we work out something for you to hold it for me? We can do deposit or something...I know I WILL have the money; just not right now. Should have 100% in a week or week and a half. This is a Gen1, right?

Let's work something out!

Seller: Yes a gen 1. I may be up for cash and some kind of trade. What exactly do you have?

Me: Hey bro, I was just checking with you to see if you got my last message...I can have the money to you by the end of this week...

Can you shoot me some pics of the blower?

Seller: Yes what is your email address? Where are you located exactly? If we are not too far apart maybe we could meet up?

Me: Well, I live in South Alabama, so I doubt that we would be able to meet up...LOL

My email address is XXXXXX

Whatcha think about my offer, though? I am 100% sure I want the blower if it's in good shape (it is, right?) and if we can get right on price.

Make sure to send me some pics of the rotors too, please. Thanks man!

Seller: Pics sent let me know what you think (Photos here; blower in good shape: http://pfomustangs.com/htj/index.php?dir=cobra/whipple )

Me: It looks good! Is there any play in the drive at all?

Will you take $2000 plus shipping for it? I can have you the money by the end of the week if you will. I don't know what method of payment is best for this, but I will find out today at work (I work at a bank)

I can probably get a cashier's check if you are cool with that. Thanks man!

Seller: There is no play its tight. I can do 2000 plus actual shipping. A cashiers would be fine. let me know.

Me: That works for me, man. Any idea how much it will cost to ship? Do you want me to just paypal you the shipping cost after the fact? I have worked with my buyers like this before and it worked out well.

I will get the money from my bank and should be able to have it in the mail late this week. It will be a cashier's check from my bank that I work at.

If you want, you can give me a call this evening at your convenience. I also will need all your info; phone number, name, address, and etc.

Thanks!
Hunter

Seller: what is your zip there?

Me: *zip*

Seller: The package weighs 41lbs and looks to be about 83.00 to ship to you.

Me: Ok, sounds good. I will have to get some more cash from my account...LOL

I will have my money together Friday, and depending on what time I get it shipped out, it will go out Friday as well. If not Friday, I will send it from my PO on Saturday. Is this ok for you?

I guess you will ship the package out as soon as you get the cashier's check? Also, do you have a single blade TB?

How much do you want the check to be for; $2,083.00?

Thanks man, and again, I need all your info so I can send this to you.

Seller: $2083.00 will be fine. As soon as I recieve check and all is good I will ship blower to you. Thanks

Shaun XXXXXX
His address

Me: Hey man, just touching base with you...I should have the money out Friday or Saturday. We are still good, right?

Seller: yup, its a go.

Me: Just checking to see if you got the check or not. Let me know man!

Thanks!

Seller: Yes i got it yesterday and everything is cool. I will ship blower out tomorrow or sat and send you tracking asap. Thanks again!


Me: Awesome! Thanks for the deal bro! You going to ship it normal FedEx or UPS...3 day type deal?

Seller: UPS 3 day

Me: perfect. Thanks man!

Seller: Blower was shipped today. Tracking # is 1ZR031E60359794420. Pleas note there is no oil in the blower. So dont forget to fill it up before use. I always used 5w-50 syn.

Me: Hey man, I tried to call you yesterday, and left you a message. I sent you a video of the blower and the damage, and I will send you the pics I took this afternoon. I need to know if the package had insurance on it...let me know man.

Thanks
 

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If it were me I would have shipped it back and told him you wanted your money back. What happens to a product before it reaches you is not your problem. You did not pay 2000 dollars for a damaged blower. Its not your place to fight with UPS either. It is the shippers problem if the product becomes damaged en route. Doesn't matter if they are a individual or a company. You couldn't force him to put insurance on the item so the loss is completely on the individual who shipped it.

My advice is to return it to him and if he wont give you your money back file a police report. Next time pay through a service like paypal with a credit card where you can atleast dispute the charges.
 

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The Canadian Snowbra
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In my opinion, it's 50/50. You did not ask for insurance on the package. Had you requested it, asked about it, or demanded it, the situation would be different. I certainly think that you have the option to go after the seller, but having said that, I don't see him as the bad guy here.
I think that it's going a little overboard to post his name up here, this is not a situation where he attempted to willfully take money from you without giving you goods in return.
If you want to file a claim, going to the police won't do anything, it's got little to nothing to do with them. You need to contact an attorney.

Best of luck, and were I in your situation, I would be pissed, and pulling my hair out as well.
 

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Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I have taken his name out for now, because I think you are right. I actually had meant to do that earlier.

I would almost take the 50/50 for a repair just to be able to get it fixed and be on my merry way, but then again I don't see why I should really need to. Whenever I ship parts out, no matter what it is, if it's over $50 I insure it just to cover my ass. To me, shipping out a $2000 part with no insurance shows very sloppy business. I would never ever THINK of doing that if I were selling a blower or something big like this...

When the seller gave me the cost of the shipping, I assumed (my mistake) that he had included insurance (being that it's an expensive part), but apparently not everyone thinks like I do...

Also, to be honest it will not help me at all to get an attorney on this...it's probably going to take a repetitively small amount of money to fix it when you think in terms of lawyer fees and such.
 

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The Canadian Snowbra
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I agree totally with that, but if you ever wanted to get some kind of monetary result from someone who is totally unwilling to pay, in any form, then that would be your only avenue.
As for UPS, ask to talk to a manager, and their managers manager, and go up the ladder, and bitch, and moan, until you get some kind of result.

If you want something that will really scare them (more than likely, although it's possible that it wont), threaten to call the Better Business Bureau on them, and if they don't respond to that, actually do it. They pay BIG dollars to be a member, and the BBB will crawl down their throat.
I know that it may not be 100% UPS's fault (however it was one of their people who actually cause the entire problem), but shaking their tree as HARD as you can is completely worth it.
 

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Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I will do that tomorrow when I get a chance...good idea...

I just don't understand how, even without insurance, a company can ruin something and claim to be not at fault. Thankfully the blower is probably going to be fine after I get a snout, but still....
 

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Rishi the shipper remains solely liable. What if it had been lost enroute and never reached AMD? And since the shipper didnt insure it UPS would only give 100 bucks. Should AMD be out 2000 dollars on a part he never recieved? NO. Nore should he be out 2000 dollars on a damaged blower. The damaged happened before it ever reached him in circumstances out of his control. The shipper COULD have put insurance on it, but he chose not to. The key being the shipper not the buyer didnt put insurance on it. The shipper not the buyer didnt package it well. The buyer had nothing to do with the shipping. The buyer paid for the blower and the shipping ammount agreed, thereby holding up his end of the deal. The shipper by not delivering the part in the condition that he sold it as, did not hold up his end of the deal. The buyer doesnt need to ask for insurance because until it reaches him what happens to it enroute is not the buyers problem.
 

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Another point I just thought of is whenever Ive shipped something they ask me the value of the item being shipped and if it over a certain amount the recommend the proper insurance. So there is a good chance the seller/shipper was offered insurance and chose not to buy it. Once again this was the seller/shippers choice and had nothing to do with the buyer.
 

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The Canadian Snowbra
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In the early 90's if you were buying a brand new car, and you wanted air bags, would you expect the dealer to simply include them because it's safe and clearly the intelligent choice?

And if you then got in a car accident, would you say:
"Gee, it's not my fault that I just smashed my face into the steering wheel, the dealership should've known I could've gotten hurt, and included those airbags"?
 

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Wow were talking about shipping an expensive item and you relate it to a car with airbags? And to play along, If i bought a car that came standard equipped and was sold to me with the expectation that the car came with airbags I then proceeded to get in a accident and no airbags then id expect the seller to pay any and all expenses related to my medical. I would probably also sue because you sure as hell cant sell a car and promise one thing and deliver another. But your comparison makes no sense.

I'll make another comparison. Some of the new mustangs were comming to dealers with paint damage that happened while shipping. Alot of the cars were already sold and being shipped to there anxiously awaiting owners who paid up front for the car, the dealer and shipping fees. Well when the owners noticed the damage Ford fixed the damage at no cost to the owner. The owner had no control over the damage just as in this case AMD had no control in the shipping or damage. Imagine Ford telling the new owners, sorry we didnt put shipping insurance on your new car I guess your just outta luck.
 

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if insurance was purchased by the seller, ups would not honor it, due to improper packaging, this is how that works. they have strict packaging guidelines that help them get out of liability. the package at a minimum must be able to withstand a drop from six feet. the seller should honor your claim and re-imburse you. the liability lands on his shoulders, any judge will tell you that. really sounds as though he failed in packaging correctly. ups has delivered numerous busted up stuff to me, i always contacted the seller and had ups return, even if they made me pay to return. seller always has made it right, took months sometimes.
the liabilty will fall onto the seller in a court of law, especially as you've described
 

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This sucks, and it really is a NO WIN situation with UPS. I had a very similar situation with a heavy manual transmission (ZF for a Vette). It was packaged very well by the seller with wood framework that was covered with cardboard, and UPS snapped the whole shifter right off the case! It took months to reach a resolution, and eventually the seller just sent me replacements for the broken parts, but I still needed to fix it myself. He was shit out of luck with UPS, because they ALWAYS claim improper packaging as the culprit for the damage. It is their "catch-all" phrase. Sorry this happened to you, because it will be a very long road to resolving this, unless the seller is willing to eat the cost of a new snout, even though it clearly isn't his fault is was damaged (other than not insuring it). Even if he did insure it, there is no guarantee they would actually pay up, unless it was packaged by one of their agents (ie. UPS Store). I used to subcontract for a company building 8.8" IRS pumpkins to be used for '65 Cobra replicas, and I used to build shipping boxes for them myself out of 1/2" plywood, with 2"x3" would framing on the inside AND I bolted the pumpkin to the internal framework! That was the only way to (almost) guarantee the part would make it to my customers safely. Even then, I did have reports of very badly damaged crates, but fortunately they did their job in protecting the contents from those monkeys at UPS!

Good luck!
Brian
 

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Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well, it was packaged properly in my eyes...it was packaged in the original box and the foam "shells" that Whipple ships new blowers in.

Thanks for the replies, guys. I hope we can work this out...
 

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I just sold a kb blower this week, I insured it for 500$ more than the seller paid and I wasted the 40$ to have ups package it themselves (no bull it was not packed right). Hopefully he gets it safe and sound today. I also made damn sure he had to inspect and sign for it at the time of delivery. Sorry for the OP's bad luck.
 

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I agree totally with that, but if you ever wanted to get some kind of monetary result from someone who is totally unwilling to pay, in any form, then that would be your only avenue.
As for UPS, ask to talk to a manager, and their managers manager, and go up the ladder, and bitch, and moan, until you get some kind of result.

If you want something that will really scare them (more than likely, although it's possible that it wont), threaten to call the Better Business Bureau on them, and if they don't respond to that, actually do it. They pay BIG dollars to be a member, and the BBB will crawl down their throat.
I know that it may not be 100% UPS's fault (however it was one of their people who actually cause the entire problem), but shaking their tree as HARD as you can is completely worth it.
This is not UPS's problem. They offer insurance, it was declined. You accept the risk of a package being damaged during shipment, and if you decline insurance you enter into an agreement with UPS that you compensation will be limited to no greater than 100 dollars.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that bothering the UPS chain of management will get you nowhere. Let's just say I grew up around senior UPS management as a child, they will be polite at the supervisor level, but if you try to speak with a division manager, or try for the district guy you won't make it past the secretary. They have no legal liability in this situation whatsoever beyond the 100 dollars, even if they took the blower and ran over it with the truck on purpose, they know it and will stick to it.

Moral is: Get the insurance, no shipper is perfect, nor do they claim to be, thats why they offer the 100 dollars and insurance, albeit expensive, but well worth it on a blower, or mail order bride....... err... anyway

If any resolution is to be reached, he needs to deal with the seller, bothering UPS is just going to be a waste of his time.
 

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Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
If any resolution is to be reached, he needs to deal with the seller, bothering UPS is just going to be a waste of his time.
You are right; UPS has done nothing at this point. I will get the $100 + shipping costs out of them, but I still don't think it's right for them to just be able to damage goods and have no responsibility held to them; insurance or not.
 

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I have dealt with UPS on several occasions over damaged items shipped to my business and I will tell you that they will do NOTHING for you on this. The Item has to have at least 4" of padding all the way arround it inside the box. I had 2 brand new EXPENSIVE Alpine amps show up at my store that suffer MAJOR puncture damage looked to have been from a fork lift and they told me to pound it (in so many words) . Insurance would have been a total waste of $$. The Item was package poorly and fault should be soley on the seller. NO 50/50. Many items I have shipped over the years on eBay have been broken also. If there is 4" of padding than you are covered. FYI the USPS is much more lenient on damages and almost always pays out the claim. I had an Eaton shipped to me from a member on SVTP and that same damage occured. Puncture from the pully coming through the box and all. The seller sent me back some $$ for my troubles and the USPS paid out the claim within 2 weeks so I actually made $$ on the deal. Not what my goal was however. I hope the seller comes clean and stops hiding from you and resolves this to make you whole again. Good luck!
 

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The Canadian Snowbra
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I stopped shipping with UPS years ago, because AFTER I had received and signed for an item, they would send me a bill for duty charges. I haven't paid ONE of these to date, because they're illegitimate charges as far as I'm concerned.
In any case, I just feel like the seller of this item DOES NOT deserve to have his name plastered all over the boards (and the OP was good enough to take it down). I think that the CORRECT resolution to this dispute IS in a court of law, that's where things get done, and if you DON'T PAY your settlement, the Sheriffs come to your house, and take anything worth $2 until your debt is paid off.

Unfortunately, you'd spend more on a lawyer here than your claim is worth, SO go to SMALL CLAIMS. Heck, call Judge Judy, do something, but get the legal system involved, that's what it's here for. I'll be interested to see what your resolution is-
 

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Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I am going to try my best to resolve it outside a court of law. I am going to pay to fix it, but I am going to get the seller to reimburse me for the cost of the repair. Going to court would almost be more trouble than it's worth...
 

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He paid 88$ to have it shipped w/out ins.....I had ups package my blower and insure it for 3grand total price 119.99$ for the 32$ someone dropped the ball. Its up to the seller how he wants his packaged and shipped, he went the cheap route and learned a lesson. Every thing I buy anyplace online ebay or not gives you the chance to add insurance at you expense......
 
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