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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Comp Cam buyers beware!

Not to knock the end product that Comp cams may offer (I still dont know what that is since its been a month since I've seen the car), but to get there has been THE WORST experience of mine and the shops involved lives. Moronic techs answering phones with 30-45 minute wait times, giving bits of information at a time as to what parts, and work needed to be done. Heres my story:

To start with, L&M engines spent an hour waiting to talk to a tech to find out what parts they need as in cam gears etc... Then again, spent another 45 mins waiting to find out about the springs. After finally geting the heads P&P, and all other parts, they sent the heads back to JD auto. JD goes to install the cams only to find out after 30 mins on the phone with Comp that, oops, we need spacers so the cam sits right. Next, after the heads are installed and its fired up, the valve train sounds like a tin can full of rocks being thrown down a hallway. OOPS, what now? Oh, btw, the base lobe is smaller on those cams, so the lifters need to be shimmed, or the intake valve may be staying open. Hmm, after all the phone calls from both shops to verify "this is all I need", yet again, something else comes up.

This WHOLE incident is winding up costing me hundreds more dollars since the both shops had to spend their precious time waiting on Comp Cams less than desireable service.

Moral of the story is: when they tell you it's a "drop in" cam, dont hold your breath and expect there to be more time/parts involved.
 

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it is really strange that you are the only one that has had this problem, and i've taken part in selling about 30 sets of comp cams. it sounds a lot like a shop that isn't extremely knowledgeable, but i don't know them so i can't say for sure. good luck with getting everything right. p.s. this is the first i've heard of anyone having to shim anything for these cams. i'm not trying to be mean here, but it sounds like a shop is doing some R&D on your dime.

brad
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I am not trying to degrade Comp Cams by any means. I just wanted this to be a heads up to anyone who plans on purchasing cams from them. This board has always been for things like this. Learn from my mistakes is all. And, no it's not the shop doing R&D, they have done this with numerous other stangs. I dont know if it was comp cams they used, but the moral is, they said it would be a "drop in cam", but it was much more, after several lengthy phone cons later to figure it all out. Do all the research before hand, and MAKE sure you get what you need before hand.
 

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http://www.compcams.com/information/NewProducts/2003/750-971_Page-4.jpg

anywhatsit, a smaller base circle is a common method for grinding aftermarket cams. Generally with an adjustable valvetrain its not a big issue (unless it really knocks the valvetrain geometry out of whack).

Cant remeber who or where, but somebody is making adjustable rocker arms (maybe lifters???) for the 4.6

hold on a sec and let me grab my MM&FF

page 74. Vol 16, # 9 Sept 03.

Second Street Speed
109 2nd Street, Dpet MMFF
Perkasie, PA 18944

215/257-3724

They are adjustable rockers with proprietary lifters (as in designed to operate with the adjustable lifters). However it converts the hydraulic valvetrain to a solid one. The article also mentions because the ratio is different, it changes the duration/lift at the valve.

Hmmmm....

Sounds like a package deal to me, to get the most out of the lifters and rockers, a custom cam sounds like the ticket.

The article also stated that the mod motor's 1.8:1 ratio is not absolute (it varies along the arc it travels through), which sheds a little light on the comp cams claim about really aggressive profiles due to the mod motors valvetrain design
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Jim, my car has been gone for a MONTH now. Sat for 10 days waiting for the P&P, then 3-4 more waiting to go back on. Thats not my issue though. As I said, the valvetrain is nasty sounding. When both L&M and JD auto talked to comp they said they were "drop in" cams, but its been alot more than that. Just one bad experience. I am looking out for anyone else, not trying to deter people from comp cams.
 

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I've heard from several people to deal with Dennis and he has been extremely helpful.....

Might want to try talking to him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I wonder why these cams are being so labor intensive in my case. I am sure I will be happy with the end result, just really frustrating to get to that point. Alot of time and $ involved so far.
 

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wld_wst said:
oh great my motor is at, L&M right now this is makin me very nervous
are you getting comp cams? if so, there is no reason to be nervous, especially if you are dealing with a shop with a knowledgeable staff. like i said before, i have taken part in selling 30+ sets of comp cams, and not one person has said anything but good about them, so that leads me to believe that this instance may either be a fluke, or it may be the installer.;) i'll let you know how my cams turn out when my car is done, which looks to be sometime later this month.

brad
 

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I found out a couple days ago that there are several people named Dennis at Comp. Dennis Miles is the man we need to be talking to. He was extremely patient and helpful with me when I got the specs for my cams. Hope you get your problem solved soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
I dont know what the problem is, and why the cams arent lashing correctly. I dont know if it's the shops fault, but Joe and the rest of the guys at JD do nothing but Muscle cars, most of them late model stangs. AGAIN I AM NOT BASHING COMP CAMS. Just saying that, for me, I am going through alot of headaches, and the techs (not Dennis Miles) did not seem very knowledgeable. My only thing with L&M was that the heads sat for 10 days before they did the port work. I guess he was short a guy or something. The heads "look" great. Cant tell you anything else till the car is ready for the dyno.
 

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OK, let's back up a few steps here.

Comp cams are NOT regrind cams....therefore, the base circle is the same as stock. There is absolutely NO shimming required for comp cams.

secondly, just my opinion....but before i would be dropping my car off at any shop i'd have ALL the parts needed before hand. This makes sure for a minimal down time.
 

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I believe this valve train setup is more than $1300 and a very long lead time.

There is no way these are required with the comp cams 4.6 grinds. The cams are basically bolt-on. These cams only require new sprockets (99 + press on), on the heads you need springs, retainers, keepers, and seals no other trick stuff they will work with stock valves.

MiracleMax said:
http://www.compcams.com/information/NewProducts/2003/750-971_Page-4.jpg

anywhatsit, a smaller base circle is a common method for grinding aftermarket cams. Generally with an adjustable valvetrain its not a big issue (unless it really knocks the valvetrain geometry out of whack).

Cant remeber who or where, but somebody is making adjustable rocker arms (maybe lifters???) for the 4.6

hold on a sec and let me grab my MM&FF

page 74. Vol 16, # 9 Sept 03.

Second Street Speed
109 2nd Street, Dpet MMFF
Perkasie, PA 18944

215/257-3724

They are adjustable rockers with proprietary lifters (as in designed to operate with the adjustable lifters). However it converts the hydraulic valvetrain to a solid one. The article also mentions because the ratio is different, it changes the duration/lift at the valve.

Hmmmm....

Sounds like a package deal to me, to get the most out of the lifters and rockers, a custom cam sounds like the ticket.

The article also stated that the mod motor's 1.8:1 ratio is not absolute (it varies along the arc it travels through), which sheds a little light on the comp cams claim about really aggressive profiles due to the mod motors valvetrain design
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
97MattGT said:
OK, let's back up a few steps here.

Comp cams are NOT regrind cams....therefore, the base circle is the same as stock. There is absolutely NO shimming required for comp cams.
Actually, the tech at comp said they did have a smaller base circle. Dont know why, but they do.
97MattGT said:
secondly, just my opinion....but before i would be dropping my car off at any shop i'd have ALL the parts needed before hand. This makes sure for a minimal down time.
From what I was told, I had all the parts I needed (cam gears, bolts and valve guides). After the cams were installed, the right side cam was a 1/2" off center of the lifter. Found out from Comp it needed a spacer. That fixed that problem.
Originally posted by GT281
There is no way these are required with the comp cams 4.6 grinds. The cams are basically bolt-on. These cams only require new sprockets (99 + press on), on the heads you need springs, retainers, keepers, and seals no other trick stuff they will work with stock valves
I am living proof that for some reason, this is not always the case. Also, L&M engines said my springs were fine, otherwise I would have bought springs as well.

I am really starting to feel "SCREWED" here. Hmm, doubt it has anything to do with it, but a new motor was put in Feb 02. There shouldnt have been any difference such as being an 02 motor right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Talked to Dennis Miles at comp cams just a few minutes ago. He confirmed that they were NOT regrinds, however, the base circle may be a few thousandths off. He stated that its very unusual for it to be as bad as it is, and it may be the preload causing the problem. The fix for it, shim the lifters. Just another one of those "strange but true" incidents.
 

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So much for high-tech CNC machine process, they need to look at the designed dimensional tolerance, quality process and inspection if something like this can happen. Sh*t those cams aint cheap !!!

stanggt00 said:
Talked to Dennis Miles at comp cams just a few minutes ago. He confirmed that they were NOT regrinds, however, the base circle may be a few thousandths off. He stated that its very unusual for it to be as bad as it is, and it may be the preload causing the problem. The fix for it, shim the lifters. Just another one of those "strange but true" incidents.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Neither is the labor charge adding up each time Comp tells the shop "well, try this, or try that". It's all on my dollar, and I am extremely unhappy with the quality of their product. For those who think it's the shops fault, I highly doubt it. They have done hundreds of comp cams that have just dropped in. The set I got are CRAP!
 

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stanggt00 said:
Actually, the tech at comp said they did have a smaller base circle. Dont know why, but they do.
Aftermarket cams typically have a smaller base circle, because what your really doing is offset grinding the cam. Like a crankshaft.

They dont have to be regrinds to have a smaller base circle. I guess in an OHC engine such as the modular motor cam lobes larger than the bearing journal are not as big an issue as a cam in block engine, but I'm sure there are limits to the amount of actual lobe lift that can be designed into the cam (given this discussion I am assuming on the OHC reduced base circle is a critical issue (perhaps) since there is no real easy way to compensate for it as the valvetrain is currently set up (ie; pushrods)).

Given what the tech is saying here, I would guess that CC's lobe designs are reaching the limit of what is feasible given the stock architechure, so the are taking a nip here and there in an effort to get more out of the cam. Then again maybe the guy who set up the blank in the machining center got caught with the baby sitter and is sleeping on the copuch right now.
 

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MiracleMax said:
Aftermarket cams typically have a smaller base circle, because what your really doing is offset grinding the cam. Like a crankshaft.

They dont have to be regrinds to have a smaller base circle. I guess in an OHC engine such as the modular motor cam lobes larger than the bearing journal are not as big an issue as a cam in block engine, but I'm sure there are limits to the amount of actual lobe lift that can be designed into the cam (given this discussion I am assuming on the OHC reduced base circle is a critical issue (perhaps) since there is no real easy way to compensate for it as the valvetrain is currently set up (ie; pushrods)).

Given what the tech is saying here, I would guess that CC's lobe designs are reaching the limit of what is feasible given the stock architechure, so the are taking a nip here and there in an effort to get more out of the cam. Then again maybe the guy who set up the blank in the machining center got caught with the baby sitter and is sleeping on the copuch right now.
That doesnt apply to any billet cams I have seen on the market. They are all suppose to be OEM spec base circles. I have bigger lifts than any of them, i didn't shim anything. I understand CNC tolerances, but they are big enough company they should have their specs correct. Send those junk bumpsticks back and get a different set. Shiming those to fit is crazy.
 
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