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I'll post it here. It's from the superchips software discussion.


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Originally posted by mdrobnak
I'm going to go out on a limb for this one, but...

It has been mentioned that this new software allows access to parameters which have never been seen before. It also has been mentioned that one of the main programming methods is by re-flashing the EEC.

Two problems exist with these ideas, in my opinion.

1) Where did the information come from? If nobody else has it, how does this product have it?

2)I recall reading that any write operations through the OBD-II connector (if that's how it's being hooked up) had to be encrypted as a result of EPA regulations. If indeed it is being hooked up via the OBD-II port, and the encryption was broken, there could be serious consequences, in my opinion. (The government doesn't like bein messed with hehe)

Also, I understand some here wish to hype the new software -- some of the screenshots have been very interesting like the one Ken posted that had the help for the spark tables. I will say, without a doubt, that if for nothing else the software is worth it for the explanations alone. HOWEVER, I do not like the attitude of downplaying everyone else's product. Within two weeks of getting TwEECer, I have gotten a friend's car performing better than it was on a 'professional' Autologic tune that was tuned by someone who supposedly knew what he was doing.

So, basically, what are the answers to those two questions, and please, try and keep an open-mind about all of what's available.

-Matthew Drobnak
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Answer to question 1:

That's an easy answer. They stole it from Ford. Remember Jerry was a Ford engineer at one time, then left (not sure if he was fired or not) and went to work for Roush. He no longer works there either (reasons unknown)

I have been to a couple dyno days where Jerry has been tuning cars and he used a Ford RCON which is the equipment Ford uses to calibrate vehicles. Ford does not and will not allow somebody to go around the country tuning people's Mustang's and whatnot using this equipment. The only way to get it is to steal it.

Since JMS is involved in this new software.. can it program AutoLogic chips.. did they steal that too?
 

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Very interesting info. Sounds like a legit question, maybe some answers will come from it. So long as this thread doesn't go to far down the drain, it can stay.

As I stated in my other post, I'll do my homework on all the new products this week and report back my findings.
 

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The question was legit but that isn't what was in question. It was his unfounded accusation of people stealing that got his post deleted.

Bill
 

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Boosted said:

Answer to question 1:

That's an easy answer. They stole it from Ford. Remember Jerry was a Ford engineer at one time, then left (not sure if he was fired or not) and went to work for Roush. He no longer works there either (reasons unknown)
How do you know they stole it? Is the RCON made by ford or another company? Are you 100% certain it can not be obtained by anyone other than ford? Are you certain Jerry did not BUY the unit himself while employed at ford or rousch? While your questions may be valid I think your accusations are not and if they are, then why dont you post some proof to support your claims that the item was stolen?

As for accessing parameters that have not been seen before, most likely because they havent been looked for. All anyone needs to do is uncompile the original software on the EEC, read through the code, learn to understand it and the parameters will be apparent. I have seen many instances from various tuning software where certain variables/parameters where not an option to change on a certain EEC but if you use another package they are. Why is that? Because the people who originally made the software either didnt think the parameter was necessary and didnt take the time to find it and identofy it after decompiling the original code.
 

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While I agree that while you have an interesting point, you are posting thoughts that could be considered allegations against those guys that could have some legal ramifications.

as far as the tools they used, I am pretty certain that they were using their own equipment and I know they are using their own software. Whatever this "RCON" thing is, I am not sure about, but I think they took an old box they got somewhere and put together a PC inside of it for tuning in the car. I think you're going on a long stretch by accusing them of stealing from ford. It's also probably not necessary to give out the personal career paths of those employees, if I am not mistaken the person who started another large tuning company also came from ford. So by that it looks like you are just choosing to pick on them instead of both companies, and that's probably why the post was deleted.

For your second question, I would say that the superchips, hypertech, and diablo programmers have already put that issue to bed. They all go thru the ODB-II port.

again, I'm not picking a fight and you do have intresting observations. But it seems like you are out to flame by the wording and nature of the questions.

Just my $.02
Brian
 

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Quote by Boosted:

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2)I recall reading that any write operations through the OBD-II connector (if that's how it's being hooked up) had to be encrypted as a result of EPA regulations. If indeed it is being hooked up via the OBD-II port, and the encryption was broken, there could be serious consequences, in my opinion. (The government doesn't like bein messed with hehe)
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GM (like LS1's etc) have been using the OBD II port for this since at least 1997. I took my 2000 WS6 through inspection with the programming in it and had no problem.

Don't see an issue here.
:confused:
 

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So whats really your issue? The fact they are introducing a new tuning strategy or a personal gripe against Jerry?

I think Mike would throw a legal battle out if if was stolen from Autologic. From the screen shots ive seen, this doesnt look like any sort of Autologic theft.

Looks like they took one idea, GUIEEC or whatever its called and built a new GUI introducing a new logic that can be burned onto existing revolution chips until they can code it to lock into new proprietary hardware.

From the looks of everything in the last week, looks like Diablo/Autologic felt this new software was a threat to combine both of them into a merger. I think regardless, we all win when Chipmasters kicks off its new gear.

Its about time. :king
 

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Venomous Mofo said:
From the looks of everything in the last week, looks like Diablo/Autologic felt this new software was a threat to combine both of them into a merger. I think regardless, we all win when Chipmasters kicks off its new gear.

Its about time. :king
If diablo/autologic thought it was a threat and decided to combine forces, then why are superchips and fordchip partnering up? Couldnt someone say the same thing about their merger?

Just let me state I dont have anything against of the chip companies but I do find they are all somewhat anal retentive when it comes to talking details. I see a lot of hype from all of them but when it comes to trying to become a tuner(not for myself but a full blown shop) customer service from all of them seems to be pretty lacking.
 

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I can say that the software/hard combo I have availble is 100% ligit. I have done my homework on the motorola 8065 processer and figured it out. As far as decompiling the code and then reading through it, that takes a heck of lot of time insted you just teach youself to learn where things are then start looking. That is as far in detail as I will get on that but as far as the interface device I use that to is all 100% custom and I had nothing to base my design off of other than the spec sheet from motorola. What you will get from me is alot of hard work and alot of testing at its best. My days are about 16-20 hours a day 7 days a week. I will not fail because I am lazy. I have for the most part tought my self most everything I know on the eec. To go on to another subject, the power pc boxes. I am working on them. That is the SVT Focus,6.0 diesel. That is the pcm's that don't have a j3 (chip) connector, with the execption of the SVT Focus which is disabled and also a chip will not work on cause the memory is over twice the size of an eec-v. I will not lie I am still learnig something new every day on the eec, but I am learnig how to read the power pc in astounding leaps. I will support all of the new stuff as it comes out. I would almost say without a "hookup", an enginer from motorola, or holding the guy that wrote the code at gun point that is would be near impossable to support that pcm which is a totaly new design. I have contacted experts in the ppc feild and all of them say the same thing, "write your own engine contol system then decompile it to make a comparesion." That will take more time than I have in order to stay "on top" of the new stuff. So I will stick to my method of doing things because it works and if anyone says I am just guessing then ask them how they did it, I bet you won't get a responce like I gave you. My stuff has been tested on my dyno and respnods exactly like I describe or advertise it to. The only one that knows exactly how it works is Ford and if I wanted to know then I would have to somehow get it from Ford and face the repercusions of my actions, which I feel is not worth it cause I will contune to make a living at what I do best tunning and making Fords faster and more reliable. Thanks Tim
 

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I will give you an "A" for enthusiasm Tim, I hope you can keep that focus. If you do and your product delivers as promised then the other software companies will hopefully follow suit with customer support etc which in the end benefits us all.
 

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Shadowgray03 said:
If diablo/autologic thought it was a threat and decided to combine forces, then why are superchips and fordchip partnering up? Couldnt someone say the same thing about their merger?

Just let me state I dont have anything against of the chip companies but I do find they are all somewhat anal retentive when it comes to talking details. I see a lot of hype from all of them but when it comes to trying to become a tuner(not for myself but a full blown shop) customer service from all of them seems to be pretty lacking.
I understand where you are coming from. I dont know which sided kicked off what, or how the rumor mill got spread. Who knows if it was Diablo/Auto merging first to force Ford/Super to team up, or the opposite. Hell, i really dont care. I just want to tune my own truck without tossing countless $$ out the window everytime i add a mod and need a retune. Ive got a pile of chips that add up to $1100 easy.

If this is what it takes to kick it off for us to tune ourselves.. i dont care. Just bring it.
 

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Venomous Mofo said:
I understand where you are coming from. I dont know which sided kicked off what, or how the rumor mill got spread. Who knows if it was Diablo/Auto merging first to force Ford/Super to team up, or the opposite. Hell, i really dont care. I just want to tune my own truck without tossing countless $$ out the window everytime i add a mod and need a retune. Ive got a pile of chips that add up to $1100 easy.

If this is what it takes to kick it off for us to tune ourselves.. i dont care. Just bring it.
Dont hold your breath, aside from the predator and a "dummy" package from fordchip the "self tune" options for the average joe are going to be limited. For full control you need to spend the dough. None of these guys really want to cater directly to the end user, they want to focus on shops.
 

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There has not been a invidual that has aproached me that I turned away. Yes I am going to cater to the invidual but let me handle the shops first. There is alot more to the setup than I can do by myself all at the same time. When the shops are up and running then I can put that part in maintence mode and go full force for the end user. You as the end user will be very pleased with the results. Tim
 

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Shadowgray03 said:
Dont hold your breath, aside from the predator and a "dummy" package from fordchip the "self tune" options for the average joe are going to be limited. For full control you need to spend the dough. None of these guys really want to cater directly to the end user, they want to focus on shops.
Umm i think you need to re-read that huge thread on modular depot. The Racers version is like stage 2 and it allows you to change 5000+ parameters.
 

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Venomous Mofo said:
Umm i think you need to re-read that huge thread on modular depot. The Racers version is like stage 2 and it allows you to change 5000+ parameters.
I dont get over there much, have a link for me?
 

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Venomous Mofo said:
Umm i think you need to re-read that huge thread on modular depot. The Racers version is like stage 2 and it allows you to change 5000+ parameters.
Last time I tune a car for power it took about 5-10 parameters to make power. Last time I tuned a street car it took about 25 or so parameters to get power and drivabilty. Even I coudln't and will not need 5000 plus parameters unless I was going to try and make an eec-v powered nuclar powered mustang. Tim
 

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Venomous Mofo said:
I think Mike would throw a legal battle out if if was stolen from Autologic. From the screen shots ive seen, this doesnt look like any sort of Autologic theft.
If you saw the Revolution interface you'd see how "Windows XPish" and stylish it is versus something that looks like Windows 3.1 :D I'd throw up some screenshots, but I'd get in some trouble right now, so I can't ;)

Looks like they took one idea, GUIEEC or whatever its called and built a new GUI introducing a new logic that can be burned onto existing revolution chips until they can code it to lock into new proprietary hardware.
Let's hope they aren't doing that! Besides possible legal ramifications, depending, that would be highly unethical.

From the looks of everything in the last week, looks like Diablo/Autologic felt this new software was a threat to combine both of them into a merger.
The joining of forces between DiabloSport and Autologic just didn't happen overnight, and most definitely didn't happen because of the other companies (I can't talk for the latter and them joining up, however).

Umm i think you need to re-read that huge thread on modular depot. The Racers version is like stage 2 and it allows you to change 5000+ parameters.
The 5000+ are actually EEC codes, not parameters.
 

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You are more then welcomed to email me those screens Bubba.. They are safe with me :evil
 

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I think this is all very intresting. All of the shops that now claim to tune will be forced to actually learn and tune. There is a learning curve when tuning cars, and if you aren't careful you can break motors. How places deal with this new thing will make or break a shop.

As far as paremeters, to properly tune a supercharged vehicle there are at least 100 I change. To really tune a blower car you need more than just spark and fuel tables. An N/A car may be closer to 50, but there are a lot. I've seen the power pc stuff too, and that's not a problem.

This thread is way off track, so I'll ask this. Tim, does your product have any relation to the Pro-M tuning that I heard rumored to be in development?

Brian
 
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