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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I had my car dynotuned a few weeks ago. Car makes pretty good power 584rwhp/500rwt. That's through the auto and stock manifolds..cats are deleted. However, the drivability isn't great yet. The throttle body is doing some crazy stuff and at certain speeds the car will buck/surge due to what we believe is the TB opening/closing when it shouldn't be. WOT this doesn't happen. Seems to be more part throttle acceleration and when I'm shifting the car manually. The tuner spent considerable time on it and got the car better than it was but it's still not right. They are going to see what they can find out over the off season and go at it again in the Spring. Anybody else having issues like this? Any thoughts? I'm wondering if the TB went bad somehow??? I didn't take it apart when I had it off though. Car doesn't throw any codes and other than this seems okay.
 

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My car with the roush kit (2012 automatic) has had the same issue. About 1/3rd to full throttle is good, but part throttle around 1/3rd into it it occasionally surges. Doesn't matter the speed or gear, usually just the throttle percentage. I've noticed that if I flash mine fresh the surging goes away, but after about 1k miles or so it comes back.

My car is sitting down at a local tuner right now, he is trying to figure some of that out and some stalling issues I've had when slowly coming to an idle from 1 to 2 mph. I don't get codes for either condition, if you find out anything cool on your situation, let us know.
 

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Have u guys tried data logging it and having your tuner fix it? The drivabilty of my car is pretty good. I had a stall maybe every 20-30 key cycle's but Justin has fixed that.
Also u may want to check all the pin connection that were moved around make sure there 100%. Also do u have the factory Roush intake on the car?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Mine is the Edelbrock not the Roush. I asked my tuner about datalogging and he said there is nothing really to datalog that would track the TB issue.
 

· The Ubiquitous Jimmy V.
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I have a Stock TB if you need it..I replaced it with an L&M...
 

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I have the stock closed roush intake. Justin was working with me on the surging, but I took it to a local tuner for the drivability pieces so they could sit in the car and feel what it was doing and know exactly what timeframes in data logs to look at. My local guy has been pulling data logs and working with SCT directly and others to figure it out.

I was wondering if we were trying to tune around a hardware issue too, but my local guy doesn't think so. It sucks that fixing the drivability pieces local means the entire tune will be redone losing any part of Justin's tune. I dug the car's performance, shifting, and track times on his tune...sucks I won't have that now. Local guy will be going with me to the track to tune it there in the spring though, so hopefully I can get back to where I was before performance-wise or better considering he can be hands on with the car at the track and on the street.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks Jimmy V! you're always there to help:beer: It had crossed my mind to try the new BBK 85mm unit in the Spring just to see if the actual TB was the issue.
 

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VMP Roush as well. Justin told me that when he gets the next update from SCT, he'll have a fix for the surge.

When I got a "stock-like" tune from him, the surge issue has just about disappeared. This tune has the stock part throttle shift points and just a little more throttle sensitivty than stock. I've experienced "the surge" twice in about a month. I drive the car every day, city and highway.

What I think happened is that the car is now in a higher gear and with the reduced throttle sensitivty it is harder to reach that magic point that starts the surge going, which by the way at about 22% of throttle according to my aeroforce gauge. The higher gear also lessens the effect of the surge, as in it is absorbed by the taller gear and the convertor and you don't feel it.

Bottom line, this tune is great for me, it drives pretty much like stock until you are into the boost and then it is a beast. The surge is essentially gone with this tune.
 

· The Ubiquitous Jimmy V.
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You would think by now this all was takin care of...What about the tunes in this case Edelbrook have for there low boost setups...How do they get there drivabilty issues sorted out..
Don't Whipple and Roush have tunes for there setups??
 

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JerryC - I believe I got the same tune from Justin, seems a little less aggressive for drive by wire and it did fix some of the surging. Mine is wierd though, on a fresh flash it is fine, the more miles I put on it (around 1k miles after flashing), the more the surging shows up, almost like it is adaptively learning something that is throwing it off. The issue has been seen with tunes from different vendors and different s/c kits as well. Seems SCT is getting out better logging tools/versions and more PIDS available for datalogging to help fix this issue.
 

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On my previous tunes, the surge was there from the get go. What I noticed and it could just be me is that warmer weather made it worse.

I havent noticed the surge in about 10 days or two weeks and even then it was very subdued.

If you have my tune it will go into high gear as soon as possible, my car spends a lot time at ~1100rpm around town. Just like stock.
 

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Earlier in the year I had thought mine could have been related to warmer temps as it seemed to do it more during the hotter days of summer, but I've also had it happen at 45 degrees on the interstate on the way home at 80mph. It is hard to pin down what is causing it or a certain condition that invokes it.
 

· The Ubiquitous Jimmy V.
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Is it just me,,,but we had a bunch of people on here running 10's with boosted 2011 GT's that drove just like stock....Who Tuned there cars??
Actually some of them ran 9's.....
Is it me or is something fishy with these tunning issues still not resolved and the people selling power adders with tunes that have the car run just like stock...
 

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My guess would be the drivability issues exist more on the auto's, which some of these kits weren't initially designed or released for, like the Roush. Just part of being on the new end of development, things aren't going to be 100% right out of the gate. I do drive my car 60 miles each way to work and back twice a week, and around town daily. Took it on a 1k mile trip this summer. The car gets me around 23mpg average. I've gotten an 11.2 out of it with a crappy 1.78 60ft up here in Colorado when DA was 6940ft.

Overall it is an awesome package, can it be improved on to get rid of these nagging drivablity issues, sure. Am I overly concerned about it or does it impact my enjoyment of the car, not a bit. Until the occasional surging and stalling are fixed I wouldn't say it "drives like stock" though. It does 99% of the time, but that 1% is different and still an issue holding it back from having stock like drivability.
 

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IMHO, the surging was annoying, but I quickly learned to drive around it. Oh it would still catch me every so often, but it was certainly livable.
Of course I want it resolved, but it's not as big of a deal as it sounds. I was more interested in "de-tuning" my tune. I want the power, but not a sensitive throttle and and higher part throttle shift points, that just ruins the day to day driveability for me. Most people like it the other way, I want a car that drives like stock at part throttle and will absolutley haul at full throttle. As i said earlier, the surge is almost entirely gone. Right now VMP has my tune just the way I want it.

I basically have three go fast mods, blower, tires and K&N filter (although to say this is a go fast mod is a stretch) and have a high ten second car that gets 26mpg hwy and 21-22mpg in my daily commute. You betcha I'm happy.
 

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Is it just me,,,but we had a bunch of people on here running 10's with boosted 2011 GT's that drove just like stock....Who Tuned there cars??
Actually some of them ran 9's.....
Is it me or is something fishy with these tunning issues still not resolved and the people selling power adders with tunes that have the car run just like stock...
+1

I thought most everyone with the PD blower/automatic combo's were all saying how awesome it was to run 10's with stock drivability.
 

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Mine has the VERY ANNOYING 800-850 rpm idle, but MORE IMPORTANTLY when Punching it from 65-80 mph it hits a MAJOR SURGE point and you HAVE to get right out of it...that SUCKS,
but everything else is good..and from ANY Other speed, or a Dead Stop it's Great! Just NO Highway Racing though..that Kinda Sucks...
 

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+1

I thought most everyone with the PD blower/automatic combo's were all saying how awesome it was to run 10's with stock drivability.
Lost my last post, if it appears twice, my apologies.
FWIW, I remember that the VMP Roush guys were doing tens the easy way, blower and tires. None of the other stuff needed. The base VMP tune is like other tunes with increased throttle sensitivity and raised shift points, I can't see anybody saying it's stock like for driveability.

The guys that bought blowers and used the stock blower tune were saying stock driveability but were not bragging on ET's. Up until a couple of months ago there weren't that many PD blower kits for auto trans cars.
 
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