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Terminator Crank Support System

931 Views 7 Replies 5 Participants Last post by  eschaider
So I was looking around Lethal's site and came across this.
Everything you need to know about the Cobra Crank Support

Says it works with the Metco hubs or IW balancers.
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Eric,

Broken crank snouts are not caused by any of the things that Lethal talks about in that link. The thing that breaks crankshafts is an aggressive clutch, a big blower, and blower overdrive.

Here is how it all goes down. You take off your Eaton and put on a bigger aftermarket blower. Then, to handle the newfound torque from the new blower and other mods, you go to a new über clutch with all the extra beans necessary to handle your newfound torque, and of course, you use every trick in the book to prevent belt slippage.

After a few cautious shakedown passes, you are ready to see how much quicker all those dollars have made your ride. This time you spin the engine up to 6500 rpm, change gears, and the experience is nothing short of spiritual. After a few passes, you decide to step up your game and go to 7000 and then 7500 before shifting. 7500 feels so good you just keep using that shift point each outing.

When your crank spins 7500 rpm, for example, your blower will spin 22,000 rpm or more. Your T-56 has a 2.66 first gear and a 1.78 second gear. When you change gears, that instantly drops your engine speed 33%. It also produces a 33% drop in blower rotor pack speed. The rotor pack goes from 22,000 rpm to 14,700 rpm. When you reduce the rotor pack rpm by 7,300 rpm literally in a microsecond, it is the functional equivalent of spinning your flywheel, to 7,300 rpm, and instantly stopping it. This is a monstrous, instantaneous torque hit opposite to the normal direction of crank rotation. The rpm drop between other gears is similar but does decrease slightly with each subsequent gear change.

The guy who takes the brunt of all this is the wimpy 1.25” diameter snout Ford puts on our cranks. The absolute fix is a super steel billet crank with a 1.400” or 1.500” diameter snout and a 5/8” or ¾” stud in the snout of the crank. An alternative would be an RCD style spline drive on the 1.500” snout. Spline drives look like this;

Cylinder Gas Microphone Scientific instrument Flag


This is what the ¾" x 16 tpi 6-inch long snout bolt that is used with those style snouts looks like. Sort of reminiscent of our own crank stud mod.
Auto part Engineering Metal Titanium Steel

The diminutive 8mm fasteners that we have on the front of our blocks do not even begin to meet the minimum strength requirements to prevent a bending moment style of breakage. More significantly, the girdle that Lethal offers provides zero protection against torsionally induced fractures or breaks.

Far and away, the best, most cost-effective fix for our cranks is the 9/16” Crank Stud mod that I developed years ago. It will not prevent the breakage, but it will push it far enough out in time that you can catch the damage and replace the wounded crank over a winter engine freshening before it kills your engine.

The absolute fix is a billet crank with a 1.400” or 1.500” splined snout, like in the pictures above. That will set you back about $4,000 in today's dollars — ask me how I know. Then get ready for another $1,000 or so in custom damper fabrication.

Over the years, there have been multiple girdles offered by multiple providers. They appear for a while, everybody has great enthusiasm and high hopes, and then someone’s crank breaks! Girdles are like sky hooks. They are fanciful solutions to a problem they can not resolve.

More often than not, girdles are purchased by someone who doesn’t want to take the time and effort to remove his crank and have it drilled and tapped for a stud. The fanciful crank support will typically cost somewhere between $1,300 and $2,000 and is pursued because the individual is too lazy to pull his crank out to get it studded. Instead, he attempts to fix the problem by throwing money at it.

Don’t waste your money.
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Some serious good advice there even the good cobra crankshaft has its limits. Huge power means billet. It's nice that you have come up with the stud idea.
Great information Ed!

I happen to be at that junction now, Gen 5 Whipple and uber clutch!
I also have considered the crank support as well, but may reconsider after this read.

I am glad I happened on to this discussion to remind me of your crank stud mod. I recall reading about it before, and since I have my engine out, I think it might be the road to take.

Can you share your crank mod information? Is there a suggested max HP, boost limitation for this mod? Might you have any suggestions on things I might want to refresh/ modify while I have the engine out?

After all, a wise man once said……

”Don’t waste your money”
... I happen to be at that junction now, Gen 5 Whipple and Uber clutch!
This (the clutch in particular) is the magic sauce (in conjunction with 20,000 rotor pack rpm) that is required to break crank snouts.


I also have considered the crank support as well, but may reconsider after this read.
Crank supports on their face are silly. When you consider that the crank snout is 1.25" in diameter, it is ludicrous to assume four or six relatively closely spaced 8mm fasteners screwed into a cast aluminum block through a cast aluminum timing cover will protect a 1.25" diameter Microsteel crank snout that, for all intents and purposes is heat treated 4340 steel! That is equivalent to using a VW Beetle (a nice car in its day) to pull a loaded 40-foot-long trailer — it won't happen!


I am glad I happened onto this discussion to remind me of your crank stud mod. I recall reading about it before, and since I have my engine out, I think it might be the road to take.
It is the most cost-effective enhancement to extending crank snout life you can possibly make. The absolute fix is either a 1.400" or 1.500" diameter snout on a billet crank. In the FWIW bucket, the price tag on crank snout supports is approaching $2,500. You can buy a new billet for $3,500, give or take. Go figure ...


Can you share your crank mod information?
It is published in the Terminator Table of Contents (TToC) at the top of this forum. Read through Crank Tech I & II in the Engine Builds section.


Is there a suggested max HP, boost limitation for this mod?
Enthusiasts always associate HP or Boost or some other irrelevant metric with suitability for many of the modifications we make to these engines. It simply isn't relevant. If you read the explanation of what is occurring when the snout breaks, it is the result of the snout being required to absorb the kinetic energy associated with changing rotor pack rpm from 20,000 rpm (or higher) to 12,000 rpm in a few microseconds. That's it.

It is like taking the flywheel on the car spinning it to 8,000 rpm, and then instantly stopping it! That is a lot of kinetic energy to dispose of. Same thing with the blower, only more! When it happens on your engine, it twists the nose off the crank! The break is a torsional failure, not a bending moment failure.


Might you have any suggestions on things I might want to refresh/ modify while I have the engine out?
If the engine is out for a refresh, all consumables should be refreshed. That means rings, cylinder bores, guides, springs, retainers, locks, bearings, oil pump gears, rod bolts (!), etc. If it moves and wears, it should be replaced/refreshed (valve job). If you like your pistons but need to replace them because you needed to hone (not bore), the cylinders oversize to clean them up, you can use Line-2-Line coatings to allow you to reuse your pistons. They will flat-out amaze you, and so will your piston performance. Follow their guidance on PTW clearance. It will sound scary, but they are spot on correct.

After all, a wise man once said……

”Don’t waste your money.”
W.C. Fields said, "A fool and his money are easily separated." This is particularly true when it comes to crank supports ...
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Thanks Ed, for taking the time to share your wisdom! Once again you never cease to amaze with your response!
All this sounds like a very good reason to go turbo if looking for more serious power. Of course that has its own complications hower the power output is very flexible at minimum cost once all the plumbing is in.
The choice between a PD blown and a turbocharged engine is not a crank snout issue. Although fear might drive that, it is properly driven by other considerations. The simplest is a personal preference.
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