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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Straight methanol will give a denser talcum powder coating but it is still a talcum powdered appearing surface.



Yes with the exception of the center electrode heat signature which will be slightly more difficult to see on the iridium.




Single OEM sensor (Bosch) attached to a motor mount stud using a step stud from McMaster Carr.



No because of the cylinder sensing logic John uses. The Vampire can see which cylinder fired last. When it hears a knock signature it knows it has to come from that last cylinder to fire. The others are too far advanced in the power stroke to be capable of knocking.



I like a stepped stud in one of the motor mount bolt holes.

BTW, while I recognize you are addressing the questions to me, Kevin is nailing the answers, dead on in his responses.
Thanks to both of you for your responses
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
The first time I got into boost was after I bought the car and after I installed the Vampire. The car was initially tuned on 93 and made 720 @ 20psi by someone else but I wasn't going to trust a pump gas tune until I could monitor KR. I installed the Vampire then dialed the boost to 7psi and with 91oct the knock gauge lit up like a Christmas tree ... ALL the LED's lit up and at 7psi! I never got into boost after that until I had meth inj installed.

ks
What size injectors are you using
 

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Cra
What size injectors are you using
Craig,

Go over to the TToC and into the Fuel System section. The fourth entry will be Fuel System Calculator Rev 2.11. Open the post and down load the correct calculator spread sheet either PC or Mac. Print the post as it is the instruction manual. Because of continually improving screen resolutions you may need to zoom the view to 110 or 120% to get full screen images again.

Enter all the engine specific variables on page 1. Turbo cars increase blower size and or over drive to get the boost you intend to run. Be sure to provide the correct fuel specific gravity in the red oval in the pic below of page #2 of the calculator.

Rectangle Font Parallel Screenshot Number



You can find this number on page #3 of the calculator, see image below;

Font Rectangle Parallel Pattern Number


The numbers in red above are more conservative than page #3 in the R2.11 version. Use the above guidelines for safety. If your tuning experience shows you are still safe you can skinny up the AFR's a whisker from there. Go cautiously, piston replacement is a PITA.

When you have configured the calculator it will show you your required injector size in cc/min or lbs/hr on page two for the injector duty cycle you have chosen. I recommend you stay below 80% duty cycle. If you intend to run at a base fuel system pressure other than 3 BAR (43.5psi) plug you desired base fuel system pressure into the window to the right on page #2 and read the new injector size required.
 

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What size injectors are you using
Going into this build I made sure that I wouldn't skimp on a few things: Fuel System, Engine management/sensing.
These things were where I spent the $$ to create very solid groundwork that should keep the motor intact.
Injectors are 160's and I run three 340 pumps. Two of the pumps come on at 7psi boost. Two pumps might have been enough and is what I had initially installed but three weeks before dyno day I added a third pump just for good measure. The injector duty cycle is right at 70% with this combo so things are very safe.
For engine safety I also run a Lean Protection Module that is set to 12.8 and monitors each bank. If any bank reads leaner than 12.8 the ignition turns off.

I have my build pics here:


ks
 

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Craig, the forward looking, conservative thinking model that Kevin uses is the essence of your engine living to fight another day. Through the build and through the tune go for the conservative side of each decision you make. The 70% duty cycle is an excellent threshold. In the good old, old days, when we didn't have the range of injectors available that we have today, people would regularly run injector duty cycles to 85% and more while boosting base fuel system pressures to substantially more than the Ford OEM 39.15 psi, trying to get additional fuel mass.

With the injector availability we have today you can easily turn down the injector duty cycle to the 70% threshold Kevin uses or even lower if you want. The benefit is you have lots of head room for both good weather and also stepping on the boost numbers down the road, should you decide to. Best news is if you go big enough on the injectors you will have ample head room for most any 'experiments' you might want to conduct without the cost of another set of injectors.

One of the long standing concerns about big injectors in the past has been the idle fuel metering and not being able to properly fuel the engine because of too great a low pulse width flow. That has for the most part disappeared today. There is a PD blown Terminator that personally I know of running methanol with dual 2200 cc injectors per intake port. The car is switched over to regular pump gas (and a gas tune) after racing to purge the fuel tank and fuel system of any residual methanol so it does not attack fuel system components. Those same dual 2200 cc injectors per port will idle on gas at right around 1000 rpm and easily drive around the pit area with zero drama.

You don't need dual 2200cc injectors with what you are doing, but if you can get a good deal on a set of larger injectors over a smaller injectors, take it! They will both work well for you and the less expensive bigger injectors will buy you additional wiggle room everywhere. Even if the pricing is a push give it some serious thought. The bigger injectors will give you assertional room to grow — power-wise.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Going into this build I made sure that I wouldn't skimp on a few things: Fuel System, Engine management/sensing.
These things were where I spent the $$ to create very solid groundwork that should keep the motor intact.
Injectors are 160's and I run three 340 pumps. Two of the pumps come on at 7psi boost. Two pumps might have been enough and is what I had initially installed but three weeks before dyno day I added a third pump just for good measure. The injector duty cycle is right at 70% with this combo so things are very safe.
For engine safety I also run a Lean Protection Module that is set to 12.8 and monitors each bank. If any bank reads leaner than 12.8 the ignition turns off.

I have my build pics here:


ks
How is the MS3 to work with? My last project I used the stock computer and HP tuners. The learning curve was fairly steep and until you really understand it a lot of little things can trip you up.

Which brand of injector did you use? Where did you get them?

Do you have to call J and S to order the vampire? I see on their site that they accept paypal now but I didnt see a way to order online
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Going into this build I made sure that I wouldn't skimp on a few things: Fuel System, Engine management/sensing.
These things were where I spent the $$ to create very solid groundwork that should keep the motor intact.
Injectors are 160's and I run three 340 pumps. Two of the pumps come on at 7psi boost. Two pumps might have been enough and is what I had initially installed but three weeks before dyno day I added a third pump just for good measure. The injector duty cycle is right at 70% with this combo so things are very safe.
For engine safety I also run a Lean Protection Module that is set to 12.8 and monitors each bank. If any bank reads leaner than 12.8 the ignition turns off.

I have my build pics here:


ks
I was just looking at your build pics. Looks really nice when I have a chance I want to look a little closer.

Im curious how that intake set up woks for you. I had the same set up on a race car with a big procharger making about 28 lbs of boost and we had a problem with cylinder bias. We ended up having to build an aluminum box that was welded to the top of the manifold. It wasnt real pretty but it seemed to solve the problem lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Craig, the forward looking, conservative thinking model that Kevin uses is the essence of your engine living to fight another day. Through the build and through the tune go for the conservative side of each decision you make. The 70% duty cycle is an excellent threshold. In the good old, old days, when we didn't have the range of injectors available that we have today, people would regularly run injector duty cycles to 85% and more while boosting base fuel system pressures to substantially more than the Ford OEM 39.15 psi, trying to get additional fuel mass.

With the injector availability we have today you can easily turn down the injector duty cycle to the 70% threshold Kevin uses or even lower if you want. The benefit is you have lots of head room for both good weather and also stepping on the boost numbers down the road, should you decide to. Best news is if you go big enough on the injectors you will have ample head room for most any 'experiments' you might want to conduct without the cost of another set of injectors.

One of the long standing concerns about big injectors in the past has been the idle fuel metering and not being able to properly fuel the engine because of too great a low pulse width flow. That has for the most part disappeared today. There is a PD blown Terminator that personally I know of running methanol with dual 2200 cc injectors per intake port. The car is switched over to regular pump gas (and a gas tune) after racing to purge the fuel tank and fuel system of any residual methanol so it does not attack fuel system components. Those same dual 2200 cc injectors per port will idle on gas at right around 1000 rpm and easily drive around the pit area with zero drama.

You don't need dual 2200cc injectors with what you are doing, but if you can get a good deal on a set of larger injectors over a smaller injectors, take it! They will both work well for you and the less expensive bigger injectors will buy you additional wiggle room everywhere. Even if the pricing is a push give it some serious thought. The bigger injectors will give you assertional room to grow — power-wise.
You wont get any argument from me on that score. Ive tried to save a few bucks before on injectors for example and ended up junking them and getting good ones. Ive also done my share of pushing stuff to the ragged edge to try and squeeze a couple more tenths out, only to have it all fall apart. Hard lessons those. I really want my builds to be over built and reliable going forward.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
For engine safety I also run a Lean Protection Module that is set to 12.8 and monitors each bank. If any bank reads leaner than 12.8 the ignition turns off.


So I was checking for one of these and it doesnt appear they are available anymore. Is that true or am I just not seeing them?
 

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How is the MS3 to work with? My last project I used the stock computer and HP tuners. The learning curve was fairly steep and until you really understand it a lot of little things can trip you up.

Which brand of injector did you use? Where did you get them?

Do you have to call J and S to order the vampire? I see on their site that they accept paypal now but I didnt see a way to order online
I couldn't tune a guitar if it had one string but I can connect the string. I wired it all up and got it running but a friend of mine that tunes race cars tuned it for me. This was all part of the planned budget.

I got my injectors here: Fuel Injector Connection - High Performance Fuel Injectors
They are a flow matched kit.

I think I initially contacted John via email then I called in with a CC. John designed the system and is super nice in talking with him so feel free to strike up a conversation. Feel free to drop my name too, I keep in touch with him just to see how things are going..

Im curious how that intake set up woks for you. I had the same set up on a race car with a big procharger making about 28 lbs of boost and we had a problem with cylinder bias. We ended up having to build an aluminum box that was welded to the top of the manifold. It wasnt real pretty but it seemed to solve the problem lol
The back two cylinders on the drivers side run a bit leaner than the rest, especially when spraying a lot of meth, but with the MSPro the tuner was able to change the settings (timing, fuel, etc) for those two cylinders by reading plugs to bring them in line with other cylinders.

So I was checking for one of these and it doesn't appear they are available anymore. Is that true or am I just not seeing them?
I'm not 100% sure but it seems that you may be correct. I'm sure the same safety feature is built in the MSPro so do a bit of reading.

ks
 

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The guy that made the lean protection module hasn't made them in a long time. He's talked about doing another run, but I don't think he wants to deal with it.

The lean protection in the MS3 is awesome. It acts quick.
 

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Oh I see. I asked because they have a signature series which they advertise as flow matched but they dont say the others are matched
I wanted matched injectors so I called them to make sure then I ordered them. It seems that there was a sale on them at the time that I took advantage of. Things may be different now so I'm not sure how they kit them these days. A matched set was part of the fuel system that I didn't want to skimp on.

ks
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
I wanted matched injectors so I called them to make sure then I ordered them. It seems that there was a sale on them at the time that I took advantage of. Things may be different now so I'm not sure how they kit them these days. A matched set was part of the fuel system that I didn't want to skimp on.

ks
Sure I get it
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
So Im thinking that I will be eliminating the stock gas tank, and spare tire recess in the coupe. I dont like how much space it takes up and forces the exhaust to wrap around it. So Im thinking a cell in the trunk with an in line pump. Going for 1000 ish horsepower and wondering what inline pumps you guys like. An A1000 is only rated at 1k HP and so that seems a bit small.
Its only around 500 dollars bur their next in line the 3.5 is 1200 dollars. What are your opinions? Aeromotive, Holley?
 

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A couple of thoughts here Craig.

Don't rely on pump manufacturers power figures for pumps

Sometimes you get n/a figures, sometimes you get boosted figures and sometimes you get both. Importantly most of the time you get numbers for pre-ethanol gasoline. When used for a daily driver they are OK when used for a performance application even on gas they can be off anywhere from a whisker to a lot. Most all of the reported data assumes a non-oxygenated gas (14.7 stoich). Virtually all the pump gas today has either 10% ethanol, MTBE oil some other other oxygenate added for emissions which will drive the stoich down to around 14.08 or thereabouts. Daily drivers - no problem. Boosted engines running at the kinds of power levels we do —not so good.

Always compare and choose pumps based on their liters/min performance at the fuel system pressures you will be running. As the head (pressure the pump creates) increases the flow rates decrease and the amperage draw increases. In general it is better to run the lowest base pressure (say 39psi like Ford) and the injector that will give you a 50% duty cycle.

The 50% duty cycle will allow the builder some wiggle room in terms of power upgrades possible later on before having to buy new injectors again. Even very large (2000 cc injectors) do a very good job of idle fueling and control on gasoline today.


Use the Fuel System Calculator rev 2.11 in the TToC under Fuel System

The calculator will give you the injector sizes you need and the fuel pump size you need based on your engine specs and the amount of head room you want for whoops or good air.
Rectangle Font Parallel Screenshot Number

The Equivalent cc's/minute — 1 Cylinder will give you your injector sizing. If you run at a different base fuel pressure than 3 BAR (43.5 psi) use the NON 3 Bar Nozzle sizing equivalence to find the corresponding nozzle at what ever base fuel system pressure you like to use.

There is lots of other "stuff" in the calculator you may find helpful. Download the instructions for it also. BTW although it says for PD blown engines it works equally well for turbos. Go to calculator page 1 and set your engine size pick a big blower and play with pulley sizes until you get the boost you will run with turbos. Then pick your fuel's specific gravity off the chart on page 3 and plug it into the Fuel Specific Gravity field on page 2 it the top right corner.

p.s. Whenever possible buy/select injectors based on their cc's/min flow figures. Lbs/ Hr figures are too coarse to make a precise selection.
 
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