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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am thinking about gutting out my stock-style suspension and going with something that will get rid of my shock towers; to be perfectly honest, if i had realized how much $$ I would have in cutting my towers, buying a rack and pinion, misc hoses, ect, and other things that my shock towers have made more complicated, I would have done it a long time ago. But I would really like to finally get a turbo on this thing and the shock towers are really messing that up, not to mention my LCA's and strut rods need to be replaced (GW stuff is $800 or so for those together IIRC) and my rack is hitting my oil pan, and a few other problems. PLus someday (dreams really) I'd like to go 5.4 or Boss; more room is probably going to be a necessity at that point.

Anyway; Scott's Hot Rods is having a special (downturn is good for somethings I guess) and would sell me a M2 type front suspension built to my specs (my track is a bit too wide with my tires rubbing on my fenders, and I hate flares), with rear steer for about $2k. But i have never had, nor had I done, a M2 suspension swap. I know alot of you guys went that route, so I was hoping that a few of you could tell me your opinions of the kit you used, the quality of the components, the ride, the handling, the durability, and the total cost involved. I can sell my GW uppers and my rack and pinion, which I figure together I would get around $1400 for, so the expense isn't rediculous, espeically when you consider I need new struts rods and LCA's anyway, the price is about the same.
 

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I used a heidts on my 66 and would recommend it. The fit was great and the quality was second to none. They also provide metal to box in the frame.
 

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I have the heidts MII in my 65 Fastback. I installed the unit myself. I am also installing two kits on my customers 67 covertible and my other customers 69 Mach 1. However I am using the Total Cost Involved kits. I like this setup for the adjustable sway bar.:tip:
 

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I'm not hot on the MII setup but for a mod motor in an early body its practical. Here's a 460 in a 66 with the shock towers shaved.

Notice the DS upper control arm poking out there. I had to notch my shock towers to make room for spark plug maintenance. A 351W with 35C heads is wider than a 351c.



Custom headers



I mounted my engine lower and rearward closer to the firewall. When I did this, the oil pan interferend with the steering link so i moved the sump more forward and added capacity, yes its a mess but it works, 12 quarts.


If your track is too wide you could run shorter control arms, or go with a deeper backspacing. You didn't say what year you are working with. My Friend John Dinkel lives near you in Carmel Valley. He's a suspension guy www.Opentrackerracingproducts.com. Tell him Bart "latamud" sent you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Car is in my sig; it's a 67. I've been driving around with my conversion for just over two years now. I can't go with deeper backspacing, because as it is my wheels are about 1/8 from rubbing my UCA's, plus I like my wheels. And there really aren't options for 'shorter' UCA's or really LCA's for the stock style suspension, though you can get *somewhat* adjustable ones. I need something that will fit in my wheel better. I love my wheels, the look, and the stance.

My main concern is around the ability to handle well. My car is well balanced and fun to drive, though it does have it's issues suspension wise.


I know opentracker from the VMF. He's a good guy.
 

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Car is in my sig; it's a 67. I've been driving around with my conversion for just over two years now. I can't go with deeper backspacing, because as it is my wheels are about 1/8 from rubbing my UCA's, plus I like my wheels. And there really aren't options for 'shorter' UCA's or really LCA's for the stock style suspension, though you can get *somewhat* adjustable ones. I need something that will fit in my wheel better. I love my wheels, the look, and the stance.

My main concern is around the ability to handle well. My car is well balanced and fun to drive, though it does have it's issues suspension wise.

I know opentracker from the VMF. He's a good guy.
I was at DLI from 99-02 and John helped me build my car. He has an UCA mod that gains a little bit of clearance between the arm and wheel. Its a small cut o the front of the control arm at the balljoint cup. I don't have a pic bit I'm sure there's one online somewhere John has posted. In any case, sounds like you are maxed out with your backspacing.
When I did my shelby drop I lowered the modded UCA 1.75". This caused outrageous negative camber, -9 deg. I get confused thinking about this sometime but bear with me. Imagine a triangle, the 3 points are 1) the UCA where it mounts to the tower, 2) the upper ball joint and 3) the lower all joint. So, here we go, lower the UCA, the arm length stays the sae but the angle changes in relation to point 2. The line between point and point 3 just got shorter, and the UCA is now bolted in an upward directon from the tower to the UBJ. This pulls the top of the tire in, negative camber. Correct the deep negative camber with your camber adjustment bolts on the LCAs. I installed the Vario-centri camber kit on my lower arms and have them adjusted all the way in, and have about 1" of shims on the UCAs and still sit at -3 deg.
I'm going to guess and assume you already did the 1" shelby drop. Johns trick was to modify the UCA ball joint angle correcting it for a much lower shelby drop. This works the same way as a negative wedge kit. This is one way to pull your tires inward more.
Next time I have my lower control arms out I'm shortening them by about 1/2" to make up the camber difference.
One of my visits to John's he told me that the 65/66 UCA shafts and th 67/68 UCA shafts are the same length, the only difference is the distance between the mounting holes. So, given that, a 65/66 UCA will bolt into a 67/68 tower using the 67/68 shaft.
What are your wheel and tire specs?
 

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Not going to be any help on the MII stuff, but I'm doing an AJE front Strut setup in my 70 with an 03 Cobra motor. With this you still keep the tops of the towers, but you can cut out the bottoms, this should allow you much more room for making headers, placement of turbos, etc. The AJE kit is a front steer which can use an SN95 rack (which would be a bolt on for the hydroboost stuff). For $100 more you can upgrade the spindles to SN95 spindles so 13" Cobra brakes will bolt right on. All in all things seem to have gone in really well right now, AJE is making a new set of motor mounts for me that drop the motor 1/2" more for hood clearance, they are doing this for free. They have also mentioned that if I don't like the springs that came with the kit, they'll switch those out for free one time as well. The only downside to the AJE stuff, is there aren't any instructions, so you either have to follow a couple of the installs on here, or just wing it. Nothing too difficult though.

Here is a little picture of the towers notched, and then a second one with the motor in (before the towers were capped). I've got the towers finished now, waiting on the new mounts before I drop things back in the car (have a ton of other work to do, so it's not really costing me any time to wait).



 

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I rebuilt the front end so the k-member from my mark VIII donor could be bolted on directly. I think it was less work and a lot cheaper than all the other options. I didn't have to worry about any clearance issues with the steering, oil pan ect. The car isnt running yet so I cant say how it handles but I like how everything has worked out so far. The only problem I'm struggling with is finding a set of rims that I like with the offset I need since the mark VIII front end is a good bit wider than the mustang.

 

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I'm not hot on the MII setup but for a mod motor in an early body its practical. Here's a 460 in a 66 with the shock towers shaved.

Notice the DS upper control arm poking out there. I had to notch my shock towers to make room for spark plug maintenance. A 351W with 35C heads is wider than a 351c.
Do you think you can stuff a 4.6 DOHC in there with the shock towers shaved. Are there any structural integrity issues going that route?
 

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Do you think you can stuff a 4.6 DOHC in there with the shock towers shaved. Are there any structural integrity issues going that route?
The image you quoted from me is not mine, but it is a 460 in a 66 Mustang. On another forum someone posted this same question and one of the responses was that the 4.6 was about as wide as a 460 so that's where I added that pic. I think to fit a 4.6 in a 65/66 you would shave so much of the shock towers off that there wouldn't be anything left to mount the upper control arms to in the stock location. For structural integrity, I think you're looking at the same issues as going to a MII setup. Removing the shock towers and there really isn't much keeping the front frame rails tied together solidly. All that's left is fender aprons and crossmember. Lots of people have done both, 4.6 and MII swaps at the same time and I haven't heard any complaints. The only 4.6 swap I've seen in person was the SN65 and they uses 03 Cobra chassis.
 

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I used a Rod & Custom setup in my Maverick. Awesome piece fit great. With the engine removed, took a day to cut out all the old stuff and install the new crossmember. Not bad for a days work!
 
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