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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just a warning to any of you guys who are looking into getting your cars tuned.. These are the results of a 2000 GT and an 03 cobra tuned by Randy Haywood.

2000Gt:
The car made 248.8 Hp and 285.7 Torque with Underdrive pulleys, H pipe and a cold air kit. This was my baseline before Haywood touched it. Not bad for an otherwise stock GT.

After an Autologic flipchip, Kooks Long tube headers, Ported Upper Plenum, UPR Intake riser, 70mm Throttlebody, converted to 2 1/2 exhaust.
Then Haywood tuned the car to a pathetic 253.8hp and 285.8torque. That is SAD.

I don't think he spend an hour tuning on the car because I should have gotten these numbers out of a steeda timing adjuster.
He didn't tell me what he did, NOTHING> I don't know if the car has had the standard chip stuff like fan temps or EVEN IF IT'S HAD A REV LIMITER BUILT IT.(the main reason I put a chip in)

I know he just put a couple degrees of global timing in the car and said here you go sucker!!!!! He charged me 500 for this!!
He supposedly made it a flip chip because the car also has a NX 125hp kit on it.
WELL, THE REASON I'M WRITING THIS POST TONIGHT IS BECAUSE I JUST GOT BACK DRIVING THE CAR FOR THE FIRST TIME AND WHEN I SPRAY THE NITROUS ON THE CAR TURNS OF COMPLETLY AT 5OOOrpm. DEAD... I literally have to turn the key off and back on to get the car to start!!! Totally screwed up. And yes I am spraying it on the nitrous program.

Want to hear an even crappier story.

2003 Cobra.
Friends Car.. Kooks long tubes, cold air kit, intercooler reservoir upgrade, C&L mass air, 52lb injectors and a kenne bell screw blower.
We through the blower on right before the all ford nationals at carlisle and put a autologic chip in the car:
With the 17lb pulley the car made 498hp with 10 degrees of global timing taken out... It was running rich like in the 12:1 range.

After Haywood tuned it the car made somewhere in the 500-550 range when everyone else with this setup has been making over 600hp. He was scratching his head at the car...saying he dosen't know why he can't control the fuel. HELL, MY FRIEND AND I CAN DO THAT, THATS WHY WE WERE PAYING HIM... TO KNOW SOMETHING NOT EXPERIMENT WITH A 30,000 CAR. The car runs horrible now.

The bottom line is Randy Haywood does not seem to know much about tuning and I woulden't let him TOUCH my car again. Especailly since my friend told him he was unhappy and asked him to retune the car... Randy is just avoiding the situation.
HE also told us this sob story that he lost his shop (Trueblue) and had to tune out of other shops. Wow, what a lie, now just read that he is Racing the True Blue race car again AN ENTIRE MONTH AFTER TUNING OUR CARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wonder why that would be?? Seems strange to be driving the racecar from the shop that was stolen from you by a greedy investor.

Anyway my advice is to steer clear of True Blue or anything that has to do with Randy Haywood....

An UNSATIFIED CUSTOMER
 

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He left true blue over 2 months ago. Most people think he's pretty good and you have 2 posts so it goes without saying that most people will think you are FOS. Good luck.

BTW- 12:1 is not considered running rich on a blower car so I say you're probably a troll.
 

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Did you ever think that maybe True Blue cant find a driver for the car and hired him to drive ? Dude, ask anybody a chip really wont give much in NA form. The longtubes might even hurt you in NA form. Your car didnt blow up did it ? I would say, calm down make sure your N20 system is working and then get ahold of Randy to ask for help.
 

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LOL .It is a KNOWN fact that a ported intake COSTS you power n\a, a tbody COSTS you power n\a,and a intake riser is worth NOTHING.

Get a clue what are you expecting those numbers are about right for a gt with those mods.


Second the 03 .I say he did pretty good for usiing a c&l meter which is just a little higher flowing than the stock cobra meter.
And 12 to 1 is great for a blower car.

Oh BTW there is no such thing as 52lb injectors.

If he got it safe thats what really mattered .Does it drive better? Or you just bashing him because you can ?
 

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You guys are all wrong....the only thing that matters are peak hp numbers....:hammer :hammer :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hey, at least he didn't say 'nawwwssss' - you need to find the positive in posts :king
 

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A chip on a stock NA car like this will net 5rwhp....7 if you're lucky.

I'll bet if he pulls the chip his numbers will go down accordingly.

Have to wonder why anyone would buy those parts for a NA car in the first place - completely wrong and a waste of money.
 

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Randy is an excellent tuner, and does know what he is doing. Randy Haywood and Chris Johnson of JMS have both helped me tremendously with my car. Have I been to the dyno and had bad experiences before? yes, but this does not mean that the tuner was out to screw me. I think the results for your car are about par for the course. You cannot expect to make more power just because you through mods at it like that. From what others have said, some of those mods could have even cost you power. As far as the 03 goes, I think he is inline. Just because one car makes, or has been said to make 600rwhp, doesn't mean all of them will. It sounds to me like the car is about where it should be and I know that Randy will put the car on the conservative side. Dyno's also vary a good bit, carry it to the track and see how it runs.

I can see that you were probably aggravated with your car and had to let off some steam when you made your post. I think what you should do is step back and evaluate your setup and get with Randy on what is going on. If Randy Haywood cannot get power out of your car, I wouldn't be scared to say nobody can. Keep in mind, he is not just a tuner but a modular engine builder and racer with tons of experience and first hand knowledge.


Welcome to the world of modding where 90% of the time nothing goes like it is supposed to.
:hammer
 

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96blkcobra said:
Welcome to the world of modding where 90% of the time nothing goes like it is supposed to.
:hammer
Damn Chad your odds are better than mine, I thought the industry standard was 95%:(
 

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Buzz Lightyear said:
Damn Chad your odds are better than mine, I thought the industry standard was 95%:(
Seriously....Every aftermarket part needs to be modified....try to combine two aftermarket parts and the odds go up to 99.99%.

Only a few aftermarket parts that I have ever purchased didn't need to be modified in one form or another..... One was Baer brakes, another the Team Breed aluminum cam covers.

But to hold true, there was some interference with the turbo kit...but I blame the wastegate tube, not the covers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Uhh ok guys you need to re-read my post... I NEVER SAID I was supposed to be getting massive numbers on the motor. I know exactly what the car should be making. The point is that he made 3 dyno pulls on my car and burned the chip... 3 pulls. Thats is not taking you time and tuning on a car. I was not given A/F values, or timing tables to look at. I have no Idea what he did to the car. I asked to have rev limiters put into the car because I did not feel like spending the $ on a DIS-4 when the igition is fine for the setup I have. I don't even know if he put rev limiters in the car or not. I'm not going to just slam the gas and find out. I would expect to at least have my requests honored and be given a piece of paper saying what was done to the car.
I am aware the car should only have picked up 5-7hp just from timing. Thats all I was expecting.... It's the tune on the nitrous program that is jacked up. When the car reached 5300rpm on the bottle it turns off completly. DEAD NOTHING NADA, I have to turn the key off and back on to get the car to start back up.. It has NOTHING to do with the nitrous kit. Explain that!!!

B1nyc take a break from being such a know-it-all, I SAID MY FRIEND AND I tuned the 03 car to 12:1 BEFORE HAYWOOD TOUCHED IT.
I don't know what the A/F is on the car since the tuning, all I know is it runs LIKE SH*T!!!!!
I'm sure you are one of those guys who gets off on bashing anyone you can feel superior to. Some say that is a sign of weakness but I'm sure you don't think your that kind of person anyway. Everything you learned you learned from the BLIND LEADING THE BLIND.

Whoever said there is no such thing as 52lb injctors check out this link.. dumbass
www.injector.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MFI&Product_Code=0552
But you are right, I mistyped we put 42lb injectors in the car, but someone like you who is SOOOOOO educated in this particular blower swap should have know that.....Once again there was your chance to jump on a weakness and dammed if you did not take it... Good one man you guys got me!!!!!!! Wow I really looked stupid.

I never bashed Haywood any harder than he deserves. He rushed through the job and did not keep good communication with his customers. He could not figure out how to control the fuel pumps on the 03 car. The point is not the tune, the point is you don't tell someone you know what your doing when the truth is your not quite sure!! And you don't CHARGE them huge fees when your really using their car to learn..
By the Way, he said he would re-tune on the car 2 times since then and did not show up either time!!!!

Of course things are not going to go right all the time, we all know that, but you dont CHARGE PEOPLE THIS KIND OF MONEY AND JUST DISAPPEAR.. Any of you guys disagree with that?

And by the way, ARE YOU KIDDING DID SOMEONE SAY "YOU ONLY HAVE 2 POSTS", Your serious? You think posts on a chat room bulliten board somehow translate to real world value? Well if thats how you define self worth I envy you. Myself I think family and real world achivement are a little more important, but as you all pointed out "I'm misguided". I know it's important to shun outsiders and try to point out their weakness in chat rooms. I gives a sense of unity against a common enemy. "The new guy".

Sorry I posted a grievance. I guess I personally offended some of you, not sure why, but I can respect your boundries. You guys think I don't have anything to bitch about? I got what I deserved right, I trusted someone and they took advantage of me, serves me right. What was I thinking.
It's only fair that you all lash out at me.

I'll just read from now on..........
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
BTW snkypete the car is a nitrous car THAT is why the parts, Not to mention the fact that there are other modifications in the cars future.
 

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militantmotors said:
We through the blower on right before the all ford nationals at carlisle and put a autologic chip in the car:
With the 17lb pulley the car made 498hp with 10 degrees of global timing taken out... It was running rich like in the 12:1 range.

That's what you said . Don't come on here talking $hit. There are a lot of people on these boards to learn from if you want to. Either way you've stated you case now move on. If anyone cares (doubtful) they'll take heed. Now go fix your cars.
 

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Well I don't even know why I'm going to bother.....maybe I just hope that sometimes people can actually see the light...

militantmotors said:
Uhh ok guys you need to re-read my post... I NEVER SAID I was supposed to be getting massive numbers on the motor. I know exactly what the car should be making. The point is that he made 3 dyno pulls on my car and burned the chip... 3 pulls. Thats is not taking you time and tuning on a car. I was not given A/F values, or timing tables to look at. I have no Idea what he did to the car. I asked to have rev limiters put into the car because I did not feel like spending the $ on a DIS-4 when the igition is fine for the setup I have. I don't even know if he put rev limiters in the car or not. I'm not going to just slam the gas and find out. I would expect to at least have my requests honored and be given a piece of paper saying what was done to the car.
1.So Mr. Dyno expert...how is three pulls not taking his time? Maybe he has enough knowledge with the setup that he only needs to fine tune it.
2. Why should he tell you or give you ANYTHING? You asked for certain things - he did them. End of story. If you don't trust that he did them in the first place, him saying "Yes I did them" isn't going to make it any better. You don't know that your requests were not honored - you're ASSuming. Did you pay for an A/F dyno pull? Was it stated that he would provide A/F numbers? A/F readings are EXTRA on a dyno, not standard.
3. You're not just going to slam on the gas to find out? Ok, you're losing more credibility the more you type. Worst case it is on the stock limiter - so drive down the road in first or second when it is clear and hit the gas....if you cannot watch the tach and lift if it goes above your 'magical' rev limit, you have no business owning a modified performance vehicle.

I am aware the car should only have picked up 5-7hp just from timing. Thats all I was expecting....

Bzzzzz wrong again. Try to follow this time...while the chip might have netted you 5-7, the other mods that you did have been PROVEN to rob you of at least that....so again, you're back to where you were before the tuning session because you want to plan for future mods. Nothing wrong with that, but don't bash a guy because you chose parts for the future that make you lose hp now.

When the car reached 5300rpm on the bottle it turns off completly. DEAD NOTHING NADA, I have to turn the key off and back on to get the car to start back up.. It has NOTHING to do with the nitrous kit. Explain that!!!

Um....a mistake....wow, what a concept...people actually make mistakes. You're right, he should get out of the tuning business because there might be a bad connection with the chip to the ECU or <gasp> the chip might be bad....the fact is that you immediately ASSume (you do a lot of that) that it's HIS fault and due to his tuning skills rather than a simple mistake or a bad chip. A considerate person would have contacted him first rather than just arbitrarily bash. Read my post about the fuel rails - that is how you bash a company...you give them a chance to make good, if they don't - then you let the world know - with data to backup your claim, not just 'company A sucks'.

B1nyc take a break from being such a know-it-all, I SAID MY FRIEND AND I tuned the 03 car to 12:1 BEFORE HAYWOOD TOUCHED IT.
I don't know what the A/F is on the car since the tuning, all I know is it runs LIKE SH*T!!!!!
I'm sure you are one of those guys who gets off on bashing anyone you can feel superior to. Some say that is a sign of weakness but I'm sure you don't think your that kind of person anyway. Everything you learned you learned from the BLIND LEADING THE BLIND.


Actually Brian is a very nice guy - I had the chance to meet him a few weeks ago. You should perhaps look in the mirror as YOU were the one who felt the need to bash someone for ZERO reason.

Whoever said there is no such thing as 52lb injctors check out this link.. dumbass
www.injector.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MFI&Product_Code=0552
But you are right, I mistyped we put 42lb injectors in the car, but someone like you who is SOOOOOO educated in this particular blower swap should have know that.....Once again there was your chance to jump on a weakness and dammed if you did not take it... Good one man you guys got me!!!!!!! Wow I really looked stupid.


Because there is a 52# injector somewhere in the world for some application is not relevant. There is not a standard 52# injector for a 4.6L Mustang. 19, 24, 30, 42. And actually Bill is QUITE educated...he wasn't jumping on a "weakness" but rather showing that your attempt to bash a reputable tuner is not valid when you don't even know proper injector sizing - goes to credibility. And yes, you did really look stupid.

I never bashed Haywood any harder than he deserves. He rushed through the job and did not keep good communication with his customers. He could not figure out how to control the fuel pumps on the 03 car. The point is not the tune, the point is you don't tell someone you know what your doing when the truth is your not quite sure!! And you don't CHARGE them huge fees when your really using their car to learn..
By the Way, he said he would re-tune on the car 2 times since then and did not show up either time!!!!


He didn't deserve ANY bashing. Now if what you have ADDED is true that he said he would tune the car twice and did not show up, that would be a valid complaint....did you schedule a time with him? Did he call to cancel or in any other way tell you he couldn't make it or did he just not show up? Again, you leave out extremely important information to attempt to spin the information.

Of course things are not going to go right all the time, we all know that, but you dont CHARGE PEOPLE THIS KIND OF MONEY AND JUST DISAPPEAR.. Any of you guys disagree with that?

Disappear? Over what time frame? How many times have you tried to contact him? What dates? Phone calls? Emails? Was it a R-A-C-E weekend where <gasp> he might not be available???

And by the way, ARE YOU KIDDING DID SOMEONE SAY "YOU ONLY HAVE 2 POSTS", Your serious? You think posts on a chat room bulliten board somehow translate to real world value? Well if thats how you define self worth I envy you. Myself I think family and real world achivement are a little more important, but as you all pointed out "I'm misguided". I know it's important to shun outsiders and try to point out their weakness in chat rooms. I gives a sense of unity against a common enemy. "The new guy".

People don't pick on the "new guy"....but since you claim to be new here is how message boards work. 9x out of 10x someone who is 'new' is not there to be a part of the community - but rather has a hidden agenda to just bash someone or sell a product....people like this are referred to as trolls. Whether you meant it or not, your actions fit that category.

Sorry I posted a grievance. I guess I personally offended some of you, not sure why, but I can respect your boundries. You guys think I don't have anything to bitch about? I got what I deserved right, I trusted someone and they took advantage of me, serves me right. What was I thinking.
It's only fair that you all lash out at me.

I'll just read from now on..........


No, you don't have anything to bitch about. You didn't post a grievance - you whined and lied. Give the guy a chance to enlighten you as to what he did; have someone check the connection on the chip if you are not mechanically able to do it yourself; and include DETAILS. Not random acts of bashing. People might take you a bit more seriously then and your story might have *some* credibility.

But the fact that you only posted peak hp numbers and claim the tune is bad because you didn't gain any power already puts you behind the 8ball. Those who are actually informed on the matter know that average hp means a lot more than peak, and that you NEVER put multiple items on at once. Again - pull the chip and make a pull. When you lose 10hp you can come back and apologize to Randy.

(Note : I don't know Randy, never met/talked/dealt with him or am associated with him in any manner)

As for the car being a nitrous car - big F'ing deal....I've had a nitrous car - one that made significant hp for its day....so what? Where's the relevance? Those parts aren't required for a nitrous car and who cares if there are more modifications planned for the cars future. You missed the ENTIRE point that those parts will make you lose power. So if you put them on AND had a chip burned and you stayed at the same hp level or gained a little you did quite well.

Lose the anger, and gain some automotive knowledge - you'll be much better off. If you need help, I am quite certain that those who you are now bashing would still be willing to help you.
 

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I know Randy personally and he is a very good friend of mine, thats why its really hard for me to allow this type of thread to stay on my forum. But to be fair to everyone else, it is going to stay. With that being, I'll give my opinion.

Randy is probably one of the most knowledgable tuners / modular engine builders in the country. He has been tuning cars day in and day out for YEARS. With the simple combination you have, I am sure he could tune it in 3 pulls on the dyno. Someone that does alot of tuning will have custom tunes for cars done in the past very similiar to yours. He probably used a tune from the past, made a easy dyno run, checked the A/F and used the two other pulls to fine tune it.

As far as Randy disappearing, thats just an outright LIE. I talked to Randy on an almost daily basis. He is easy to get ahold of.

On another note, I find it funny that you put a KB on an 03 Cobra and swapped in 42lb injectors, when that is actually what comes stock in the 03. They rate them at 39lb/hr because of the fuel pressure the Cobra runs. :shrug
 

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Randy Haywoods talents should not be disputed. Plain and simple he's a good driver, great car builder, and a good tuner. Reggie Burnettes car is running way beyond what I or anyone else thought that combination would be capable of running. Can you say 8.7's with a NOVI 2000, #3000 pounds, and a power glide?

Reggies car is running faster than my car with less boost, and a smaller blower. His car is going 5.6's @ 125 mph. That car has Haywood all over it and its amazing.

Look what Randy did with his own car. That in itself should win him the Time Man of the year award.

It is well documented that Randy knows how to build race cars. My car wouldnt be as good as it is now or run as well as it did in 2001 without Randy. He convinced me to go Speed Pro (best move ever), gave me a great ballpark tuneup, and built the car the way it needed to be built to run a good number. This consisted removing a lot of dead weight, and put together a great suspension.

Are you sure you don't have Randy mixed up with Joe Stewart?

I've had some issues in the past with Randy. But they were never about tuning issues or how to make a car go fast. Randy has great knowledge and I think that a lot of guys can benefit from that.

I wouldn't say that if I didn't mean it. With a reputation to protect, I only back what I'm 100% sure of.

Dave
 

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militantmotors said:


Wow I really looked stupid.

Yes you do.You and your friend must have VERY little knowledge of a modular car.Becuase if you did the parts installed on yours and his wouldnt be on there.

NO one uses a c&l meter esp on a blown app.But is that the tuners fault?

As far as tuning the car in 3 pulls it can and has been done.My combo was done in 3 pulls the first tune.When i changed injectors and powerpipe ,it took 3 pulls.
If you have a good knowledge of a modular motor and its systems it can be done.

As far as you car shutting off.DOnt you think its possible that it may be getting spark blow out and bogging\stalling the motor from the excessive fuel.
Guess you didnt because you are blaming the tuner.
Dis is not need on a 99 up modular because the stock cop can handle LOTS of boost and NOS.

You install a few parts believe what the adds say,dont get it and have to point fingers at other peaple.

Like everyone else said every car is different.Its a known fact that not all 03 cobra fuel setups will support high power.SOme will, some wont.
 

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Randy Haywood !!!

I'm going to have to stick up for Randy on this one buddy...

I'll give you a little bit of info on my car...

97 COBRA
SHM Built motor
14 psi of Vortech boost
Built fuel system
Randy's tune

568 RWHP @ 6800 RPM
464 RWTQ @ 6000 RPM
no higher than 11.7:1 A/F Ratio (at my request)

Randy not only tuned the car per my request, but he took the time to make it all work despite the fact that Pro M screwed up my MAF meter calibration. Randy took his time to go into the necessary tables in the software to calibrate the injector parameters in little by little... No less than 7-15 dyno pulls to make it all happen to the point where both he and I were confortanble with the safety of the car and the HP numbers. He even took the time to explain to me every change that was made to the car which he didn't even have to do if he was as bad as you say.

On a personal note, you will not find a nicer more personable guy in the world willing to help you go fast... Randy is a true class act in my book. I will recomend him to anybody with 100% assurance that he is one of the best in the US doing tuning on a Mod motored car. He will get my money for sure...

That is my personal experience with Randy so take it for what is worth !!!
 

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Re: Randy Haywood !!!

xtremejc said:
On a personal note, you will not find a nicer more personable guy in the world willing to help you go fast... Randy is a true class act in my book. I will recomend him to anybody with 100% assurance that he is one of the best in the US doing tuning on a Mod motored car. He will get my money for sure...
You said a MOUTHFUL JC, and I agree 100%. Nicest guy you will meet, PERIOD.
 

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I'm not sure I should be chiming in on this thread, but I may have some relavent info on it. I'm guessing Randy tuned your car at a shop in Fredericksburg behind the owners home. I will not insert the name of that shop in this thread because this thread is kinda nasty. It's just out of respect for "That shop".;)

Now if I am correct and I think I am, then they have a data aqquisition system hooked to that dyno that is in simple terms "Bad fuggin ass!". My car has been on that dyno and it can breakdown the molecules of a fart and graph them for you. That system is nothing short of amazing. On a serious note, if your car was at that shop and on that dyno then I'm sure Randy knew what was going on with both cars.

Now I don't know Randy nor do I know you. I do know that Randy has a flawless reputation and is a superstar in the mustang world. I find it hard to believe that Randy would knowingly or purposely do harm to either of those cars. That's just my opinion and I am not calling you a liar in anyway.

Now it seems that your main issue is with your car shutting down at 5300rpm's on the N20. That is a legitimate complaint, but it may not be Randy's fault at all. It could be allot of other things then Randy's tuning. My suggestion to you is to have someone locate the actual problem and have it fixed. Once it has been found then you may be shocked to know it wasn't Randy's tuning at all. It could have been but my gut feeling says that someone of Randy's status would not do that, nor have I ever heard a complaint about him.

I don't think you would just show up on this board and bitch about Randy for no reason either. I'm sure there is some miscommunication between the two of you that needs to be straightend out. The posts you have made here pertaining to Randy may not have been in your best interest. I'm sure your frustrated and I understand that, but Randy does read this board along with his closest friends. I'm sure he is aware of this thread. I'm not sure that Randy would do anything for you at this point after reading this. I don't know him but that's just my opinion.

I don't think your trolling with your post because you are from Virginia and Randy is just coming here to tune on occasion. Randy isn't in this area enough to hurt anyone's business and that's why I feel this way.

If you can't get anything resolved with Randy (Which I hope you do) then I would be more then welcome to pass along a name and number of a shop here local in Northern Virginia that can no doubt fix your car. I'd also be more then willing to be in the mix to find out the actual problem and report it back to this thread if you would like. I think that would be in all fairness to both you and Randy. I'm not trying to get in the middle of a shitstorm but I'm always willing to lend a hand if I can.

Razor.
 
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