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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There was a lot of hype about the 5.0 liter blocks, Ford was going to offer them in a crate motor, they were going to be on the new Mustangs, ModMax was doing write-ups about how great the project's been coming along... then silence.

Not a good sign...

or am I missing something.

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
BanginStang02 said:
Because the 4.6L is the way to go :)
I'm talking about a 4.6 in the sense that the engine's displacement is increased to 5.0L... as the title implies by including the word "modular" in it.

Dave
 

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hmmm thats a really good idea someone should really make a modular 5.0......................

I I
I I
\ /
V
 

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the 5 liter blocks are out there if your looking. modular performance, and vt engines sells resleeved 5 liter blocks. and they sell strokers. or both..... was a really good thread on just this topic i believe in the 4v forum.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
david99fobra said:
the 5 liter blocks are out there if your looking. modular performance, and vt engines sells resleeved 5 liter blocks. and they sell strokers. or both..... was a really good thread on just this topic i believe in the 4v forum.
I know about all that... I was specifically referring to the resleeved blocks.... maybe it's just my perception, but for example one vendor had a "stickie" on the Corral for a while, posting their progress on the 5.0 resleeved block... and I was keeping an eye out for all the progress... and then it was gone. Livernois had an article in MM&FF a while back... it's just that there hasn't been any chatter on the subject, other than some weak references to problems... like it was tried, and now we're moving on. I've heard about the "spray bore" 5.0 block being a failure... but just weak references. I wonder if it's just available, and no big deal, no more hype. I want to know the dirt, so I'm doing a little bit of digging. Were there some reliability issues surfacing? Does the thin wall between the cylinders pose a significant problem? Wasn't a 5.0 block on some of the FR500's?

I'm asking because I plan on building an aluminum modular block race motor, and really like the idea of having a larger bore. I don't like the idea that it may be a hand-grenade. Just haven't heard much positive since the initial hype.

Another thing that concerns me is quality control on the part of the shops re-sleeving the cylinders. It's pretty important to get it right, and looking at some of the proccesses, precision and sophistication are not at a level that I'm totally comfortable with.

I thought maybe the larger bore blocks were to be the trend, but like I said, after the initial hype, I haven't heard much.

I seached the 4V forum, nothing too recent in there that i could find. If you know where I can find a detailed discussion, I would appreciate the help.

Thanks again,
Dave
 

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Sorry I cant be of much help to you. The only thing I can think of is, it wasnt cost effective to make the 5.0 block into a modular block. "Modular" meaning it's cost effective (supposedly) to build and share architecture with other engine platforms such as the 5.4L. The original 5.0 was a pushrod, and the 4.6 is overhead cam. Since the 4.6 and 5.4 share the same block casting (I believe) they are considered modular. From what I gather through all the forums and letters I have read, the 5.4 is such because of the larger combustion chamber created by different heads, cranks, rods and pistons. Hope this helps considering it's what I have gathered from information throughout this forum. If I am wrong about something, please correct me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
stanggt00 said:
Sorry I cant be of much help to you. The only thing I can think of is, it wasnt cost effective to make the 5.0 block into a modular block. "Modular" meaning it's cost effective (supposedly) to build and share architecture with other engine platforms such as the 5.4L. The original 5.0 was a pushrod, and the 4.6 is overhead cam. Since the 4.6 and 5.4 share the same block casting (I believe) they are considered modular. From what I gather through all the forums and letters I have read, the 5.4 is such because of the larger combustion chamber created by different heads, cranks, rods and pistons. Hope this helps considering it's what I have gathered from information throughout this forum. If I am wrong about something, please correct me.
Yeah, the cost effective part... for the aftermarket, if they can sell it, it's cost effective... and if it works, they can sell it.

As far as the 5.4, the cylinders and the stroke are longer, (as in different but similar block) providing the added displacement. Combustion chamber size affects compression ratio, but not displacement, as I'm sure you understand... and probably meant stroke.

I was hoping to dig up some reliability issues... positive or negative, or "we don't know yet". Thought this might be the place to ask, as it seems that there are a lot of very knowledgable people on this forum. What really interested me was the 360ft/lbs of torque in the initial testing that this block had in otherwise stock NA 2V configuration. (although i suspect higher compression, but not sure, as the engine was destined to be supercharged as the testing went further.

Even though the basic Ford modular engine has been around for over 10 years, it's well known that everyone's been having difficulties with it in roadracing... it lives OK a 1/4 mile at a time it seems. I can't tell you how many people have had numerous engine failures on the road race track with even a mild tune. It's time we figure out what works and what doesn't.... just tring to figure out if an overbore/resleeved aluminum block is something that works reliably and consistently. I've been looking all over the place, and it seems like someone is always doing initial dyno pulls, or something... and how great things are coming along... and then I never hear about the results, as in OK, this is what the block gives you in such and such normally aspirated condition, and it will do it reliably.

I'm looking for a bullet proof race motor, not a spectacular 10 lap wonder.... ~400 ft/lbs of torque, revving to 7K at the most, 12:1 compression perhaps, light as possible... that's why I'm looking at a two-valve aluminum block... otherwise I'll slap a 351 together and give up on the modern modular thing.

As you can see, I am more concerned about torque, HP will be there if it's done right, but it's more important to keep a good rod length and low piston speeds, and I like the benefit of unshrouding the valves. I plan on roadracing (American Iron) and autocross (street mod) and Open Track... and the overbored aluminum modular block seems like a good avenue to explore.

Just looking for some good tech on the subject...

Thanks,
Dave
 

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Racer726 said:
Even though the basic Ford modular engine has been around for over 10 years, it's well known that everyone's been having difficulties with it in roadracing... it lives OK a 1/4 mile at a time it seems. I can't tell you how many people have had numerous engine failures on the road race track with even a mild tune.
Well, the Cobra "R" has the 5.4L, and it was made specifically for road racing as is the Steeda Q400 with the 4.6L. I havent heard of any issues with those breaking down on road coarses. They probably have different cooling systems etc... which helps it stand up to the extra heat. I am sure with a few modifications to the specs those stangs use, a regular GT or Cobra could do the same.

And yes, I meant the stroke is what creates the larger displacement between the 4.6 and the 5.4. Thanks for clarifying my mistake.
 

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Racer726 said:
I know about all that... I was specifically referring to the resleeved blocks.... maybe it's just my perception, but for example one vendor had a "stickie" on the Corral for a while, posting their progress on the 5.0 resleeved block... and I was keeping an eye out for all the progress... and then it was gone. Livernois had an article in MM&FF a while back... it's just that there hasn't been any chatter on the subject, other than some weak references to problems... like it was tried, and now we're moving on. I've heard about the "spray bore" 5.0 block being a failure... but just weak references. I wonder if it's just available, and no big deal, no more hype. I want to know the dirt, so I'm doing a little bit of digging. Were there some reliability issues surfacing? Does the thin wall between the cylinders pose a significant problem? Wasn't a 5.0 block on some of the FR500's?

I'm asking because I plan on building an aluminum modular block race motor, and really like the idea of having a larger bore. I don't like the idea that it may be a hand-grenade. Just haven't heard much positive since the initial hype.

Another thing that concerns me is quality control on the part of the shops re-sleeving the cylinders. It's pretty important to get it right, and looking at some of the proccesses, precision and sophistication are not at a level that I'm totally comfortable with.

I thought maybe the larger bore blocks were to be the trend, but like I said, after the initial hype, I haven't heard much.

I seached the 4V forum, nothing too recent in there that i could find. If you know where I can find a detailed discussion, I would appreciate the help.

Thanks again,
Dave
Dave,

You would be referencing the post that I had running for awhile. The car is still around and running strong. Financials have kept the owner from all the mods being done in the time frame that we were looking at. Be assured though, there are things in the works for it right now. We are still waiting for the heads to get back from the porter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for the reply Mike...

I guess there are a lot of these in the works, and not too many of them out on the street/strip just yet.

Good projects usually take time to sort out. I've got a lot of good feedback some of the forums I was searching/asking at... so I still need to see what problems may arise, and how they can be corrected.

Here's one project that's in the works right now...




Cheers,

Dave
 

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Info

Dave,
Shawn Johnson's 305 (ours) is for sale in the classified section.

Comment on your piston pics. I thought cold stamping on the piston deck was out at it leads to piston failure!
 

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Racer726 said:

I'm looking for a bullet proof race motor, not a spectacular 10 lap wonder.... ~400 ft/lbs of torque, revving to 7K at the most, 12:1 compression perhaps, light as possible... that's why I'm looking at a two-valve aluminum block... otherwise I'll slap a 351 together and give up on the modern modular thing.

how about 500+ ft/lbs :D

2v alum nitrous motor running 10.8:1. I opted out of building my original plan of resleeving it to 3.7 bore just too rich for my blood based on performance gain.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Re: Info

MP-John said:
Dave,
Shawn Johnson's 305 (ours) is for sale in the classified section.

Comment on your piston pics. I thought cold stamping on the piston deck was out at it leads to piston failure!
Thanks... can you pint me in the right direction, I couldn't find it.

... about the pic... it's not my project, and I agree.

Dave
 

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I thought this thread was referring to the 5 liter cammer crate engine from ford haven't seen anything on it for awhile
 

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stanggt00 said:
Sorry I cant be of much help to you. The only thing I can think of is, it wasnt cost effective to make the 5.0 block into a modular block. "Modular" meaning it's cost effective (supposedly) to build and share architecture with other engine platforms such as the 5.4L. The original 5.0 was a pushrod, and the 4.6 is overhead cam. Since the 4.6 and 5.4 share the same block casting (I believe) they are considered modular. From what I gather through all the forums and letters I have read, the 5.4 is such because of the larger combustion chamber created by different heads, cranks, rods and pistons. Hope this helps considering it's what I have gathered from information throughout this forum. If I am wrong about something, please correct me.
ok, i'm done laughing at this thread, and i really appreciate the comedy...;)

stanggt00, it doesn't matter whether a motor is a pushrod or modular motor, it can be bored and stroked to make whatever displacement that you want.(within it's capabilities, of course) in other words, the 5.0 modular motor has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the 302(5.0) pushrod motor in any way at all!

now, that thin-wall 5.0 that everyone is advertising looks like an accident waiting to happen. if i wanted to increase the cubes in my mod motor, i sure as hell wouldn't stuff that thing between my fenderwells! i'd step up to the 5.4, and use the extra money that i saved from that over priced pos to build a decent intake. that's just my opinion, though. i see people selling DOHC 5.4 Navigator motors quite often, and when somebody steps up and builds one, i think that it's going to make a lot of power!

brad
 
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