[eschaider]

Billet is by far the preferred piston. The forged piston has been the mainstay of the industry since its earliest days — but we didn't have CNC machines in those days.

Today with CNC capability we have the ability to make exactly identical pieces again and again. Additionally with software tools like SolodWorks we can build the piston in virtual 3 space looking for dead weight and eliminating it before ever cutting a single chip. When you look at the SolidWorks imaging of the piston before it was manufactured and after it was manufactured not surprisingly they are identical.

Years ago camshafts were made with cam masters. Today Detroit and the best aftermarket providers use digital profiles on CNC grinders to produce a quality and consistency we could never duplicate in the old cam master machines and days.

From a strength perspective we all know that forged cranks are better than cast cranks. When you get the highest power engines they don't use forged cranks, they use CNC manufactured billets that are cut from a "log" of high strength super steel. There is a reason — they are stronger.

When it comes to pistons whether you use forged or billet pistons the 2618 material is the same. What is different is the dimensional control and the consistency piston to piston. Literally every surface on a billet piston has been CNC machined from the digital master built in SolidWorks. Piston sizing is whatever you want it to be at no additional cost. Pistons can be sized in 0.001" increments so that block you have $2000 tied up in doesn't have to get replaced. You can incrementally increase piston diameter a thousandth at a time and make the block live much, much longer. Even better, if you hurt one piston, the replacement piston is literally identical to the one you are replacing in every respect — including weight!

The billet piston approach is by far the more desirable piston if you can afford it. Historically they have run about $300 per piston without rings, pins or locs. Gibtec changed all that. The piston package you get from Gibtec outperforms a forged piston in every respect including price — and they are easy people to work with. It just doesn't get any better.

 

[Quicktime_GT]

Excellent response.. Thank you

 

[n2089]

pretty neat.

 

[jrgoffin]

Didn't want this thread to get too far down...!

The pistons are in the Aluminator block and progress is being made. Have a set of FRPP/Roush ported heads going on with '98 Cobra cams and a lot of ARP stuff (including the 2000 bolts in the Manley rods).

 

[eschaider]

Very nice work Joe. Looks like you did take a clean up cut on the decks. Keep us posted on the progress moving forward. In fact you ought to start a build thread.

 

[jrgoffin]

Very nice work Joe. Looks like you did take a clean up cut on the decks. Keep us posted on the progress moving forward. In fact you ought to start a build thread.

Ed

Thanks, Ed.

Build thread here with the rest:

http://www.modularfords.com/threads/236857-Aluminator-Gibtec-build

Lots of good stuff going on this engine, with the upgraded tensioner pins coming next, followed by the GT-500 oil pump, 3V windage tray and Canton pan. Small steps though since it's not going to be done in a hurry. Will also have the Aluminator Build page on my own site in the works as well at some point.

 

[JamesHell]

These are for a 2V. But I sent the old Wiesco piston in and they modeled it for the valve reliefs and matched the dish. No extra cost.
While I don't remember asking for the skirt coating. Im sure they seen it on the old piston and went with it. Still $1250 when the Wiesco off the shelf was around $900.
Look at the extra meat. Yet they are 1 gram less.
Anyone on the fence about getting these needs to get off and pick up the phone!

 

[eschaider]

Thanks for the kind words and endorsement James. No parent ever had an ugly baby so, when you guys talk about how the baby is, it has a great deal more value than when the parent does. I really believe these are the finest Modmotor pistons available anywhere at any price. Nick and the team at Gibtec really did a great job on these guys. I can't remember Nick's exact words during the design phase but it was something to the effect that the piston design was like a "baby version" of one of their Pro-Mod pistons.

Nick is very good when you need to do something special. He is easy to work with and perhaps most importantly your stuff comes back looking like you intuitively thought it should/would. He has already duplicated a single piston for one of the guys on the site here that the original manufacturer could not make anymore. It came back identical and within 1 gram of the original!

The Gibtec guys are far and away the best piston manufacturer I have ever had the opportunity to work with and I've used just about everybody over the years.

All the best on the build.

 

[nightmare302]

I've been in a debate with several people about weight versus strength on mod motor pistons. Many people are complaining my pistons which weigh in at a hefty ~435 grams will stress the motor (rods/bearings) excessively. I see these pistons are quite a bit lighter than my pistons. Is it mostly the slipper skirt saving the weight? I normally don't second guess myself and I've stood tall with my decision to add weight to maintain what I felt was more of a concern in the weak skirts on off the shelf pistons but I wanted your opinion seeing as how these pistons have a much lower overall weight compared to your previous spec'd out pistons.

 

[eschaider]

I've been in a debate with several people about weight versus strength on mod motor pistons. Many people are complaining my pistons which weigh in at a hefty ~435 grams will stress the motor (rods/bearings) excessively. I see these pistons are quite a bit lighter than my pistons. Is it mostly the slipper skirt saving the weight? I normally don't second guess myself and I've stood tall with my decision to add weight to maintain what I felt was more of a concern in the weak skirts on off the shelf pistons but I wanted your opinion seeing as how these pistons have a much lower overall weight compared to your previous spec'd out pistons.

My personal Arias pistons are only a few grams lighter than your pistons Cody. To get the skirt and crown thicknesses we are looking for on these pistons it is extremely difficult to get a forging below about 420g. Your pistons are good pistons just like mine are. The Gibtec's are better than yours or mine because you can do things in a billet design that are difficult if not impractical with a forged design.

When I approached Gibtec on the Modmotor piston project we had an advantage because we were building billet pistons from a 3D SolidWorks model. SolidWorks allowed us to do things that simply were not possible or not economically practical with forgings. The overall piston design was done with strength and rigidity as primary goals. In addition because we could model in three space and move "things around", it was possible to get a significant amount of dead space material out of the piston design that did not contribute any strength but just added weight.

As the design process began a full slipper skirt design was chosen to distribute the piston skirt loads over as much cylinder wall as possible to reduce localized stresses at or near BDC. Additionally the pin bosses were moved to within 0.050" of the connecting rod's pin end. The moved in pin bossed were used to both optimize the double shear loading of the wrist pin and also provide the largest pin bearing area possible in the piston's pin towers with a 2.5" long wrist pin. We were trying to get as close as practical to having the entire pin captured by the pin bosses and the small end of the rod. This type of approach provides the best support and longevity for the wrist pin.

With a great deal of forethought, Solidworks design capabilities and Gibtec's expertise in billet piston design and manufacturing we were able to get a piston that actually had better skirts than my Arias forgings could provide in my already robust design, improved structural integrity and still bring the total piston weight in at an incredible 377 grams (w/o pin) for a std bore piston. While not impossible to improve upon, the Gibtec design is very difficult to improve upon. It is not possible to duplicate the piston in a forged configuration significantly below 420 grams if you can get one that light.

Until I started working with Nick at Gibtec, virtually every other piston manufacturer was somewhere in the $300 per piston range for just the billet piston - no pins, rings or locks. Nick built a package for us that virtually everyone can afford at $1,139 for pistons, tool steel pins (any wall you want) TotalSeal rings and locks.

What you have is very good. The next time you go to freshen your engine the Gibtecs would be an even better choice.


p.s. Most of the people that are complaining about your pistons would give their eye teeth to have them. Their banter is more related to them trying to convince themselves that their "skinny" walled/skirted warmed over n/a piston is a better choice than your purpose built blower piston. You can rest assured they are not. Long after their skirts have begun to collapse you will still be running strong. Unless a tuning mistake nips a piston, you are very likely going to wear out a block before you have to replace your pistons. I can guarantee you your buddies will not be able to say that.

 

[nightmare302]

Thanks for reaffirming my thoughts. My response to accelerated bearing wear compared to lighter pistons was; a bearings job is to wear, a pistons is not.

 

[eschaider]

Thanks for reaffirming my thoughts. My response to accelerated bearing wear compared to lighter pistons was; a bearings job is to wear, a pistons is not.

Your response was spot on, Cody. Complete with 'bearing wear' your pistons will wear out your block before anything else and your buddies will have gone through multiple engine freshenings before you ever wear out that block. You are genuinely good to go.

What you have for pistons is what so many people with blown engines have lusted after for years. The Gibtecs are the future, the CP's you have, are excellent today's! The bearing wear story is the stuff of urban legend. Our rotating assemblies are flyweights compared to most performance engines. You are experiencing a combination of envy and fault finding where there is no fault. The focus is exclusively to make the other guy feel better about his parts after seeing yours. You got the bigger dog - enjoy, with confidence.

 

[CAT600]

Impressive stuff guys... this may be an option I look at down the track if Nick is interested in doing some 3.6xx" stuff (Coyote)

Very nice indeed.

Daniel

 

[eschaider]

Impressive stuff guys... this may be an option I look at down the track if Nick is interested in doing some 3.6xx" stuff (Coyote)

Very nice indeed.

Daniel

Good to see (hear) you again Daniel!

Nick will make them literally any way you want them and do it in 0.001" increments so you don't have to take 0.010" or 0.020" out of a bore (if a Coyote goes that big) and totally use up a pricey block.

 

[Hoss331]

Maybe i missed it but can these pistons come in a stroker variant?

 

[eschaider]

Maybe i missed it but can these pistons come in a stroker variant?

They are custom so any of the dimensions can be anything you would like them to be. If you call Nick at Gibtec he can easily take care of your particular requirements.

 

[MISTERgadget]

Anyone used these or talked to Gibtec about a 5.4 set yet? I know the pistons should essentially be the same, the 5.4 will just have it sitting .120 in the hole. I know Diamond makes zero-deck pistons for the 5.4, I'm wondering if that is worth pursuing or something Gibtec has looked into.

 

[jrgoffin]

Anyone used these or talked to Gibtec about a 5.4 set yet? I know the pistons should essentially be the same, the 5.4 will just have it sitting .120 in the hole. I know Diamond makes zero-deck pistons for the 5.4, I'm wondering if that is worth pursuing or something Gibtec has looked into.

Ed will probably answer that, as could Nick at Gibtec, but I imagine they can do anything with the mod motor you want. Highly worth looking in to, especially since it sounds like these pistons are really getting a nice following!

 

[MISTERgadget]

They definitely have the capability to do anything I can dream up. I really like this design, I'm more curious if anyone has taken this "off the shelf" setup and put it in a 5.4. I have a 2v I'm building this year for a lightning swapped expedition (goal there is 600rwhp and oem reliabilty and durability) and I'll be refreshing the Turbo 5.4 4v in my Lightning in 2 or 3 years, looking to grow there from 1100 rwhp currently to 1200+

 

[eschaider]

They definitely have the capability to do anything I can dream up. I really like this design, I'm more curious if anyone has taken this "off the shelf" setup and put it in a 5.4. I have a 2v I'm building this year for a lightning swapped expedition (goal there is 600rwhp and gem reliabilty and durability) and I'll be refreshing the Turbo 5.4 4v in my Lightning in 2 or 3 years, looking to grow there from 1100 rwhp currently to 1200+

Joe was correct about Gibtec being able to build the piston any way you wish - although that may not be necessary.

When Ford engineered the two engines they chose a connecting rod length for the 5.4 that allowed the use of 4.6 pistons! That means the 4.6 piston fits in and operates in a 5.4 engine. What you need to do is let Nick know that it is a 5.4 and what compression you want to have, the rest is a walk in the park.